long weekend break: discuss the latest here #101

[Mrs G Norris]

Thank you
Wow not being sequestered! Makes you wonder how much they accidentally see like magazines at grocery store etc out and about, I mean all jurors are locals.

I'm wondering if this will come into the appeals later .. mind you, what is worse, sequestering a jury for months on end or not sequestering them, and risking they may see some of the media about the case during the trial? It's a bit of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation for a judge.

 

[DebinGA]

I am a genealogist and I did one hour of Jodi's tree today on mom's side. It's a shame but she comes from a nice line of people from California>Indiana>South Carolina.

Makes sense then that she'd leave home asap in search of her own kind.

 

[Karmady]

I do think at least one juror may buy the fognesia nonsense.

The sheer number of questions suggests to me that at least one very prolific juror, or a few less so, are not 100% sure one way or the other.

 

[Dana]

Look at the ledge of the shower stall - those blood transfer imprints are from that same shoe print on the floor. You have to really look at the shower stall ledge, and then suddenly, you'll see it's the shoe pattern!

http://youtu.be/mS6iQ2QZKHo?t=2h5m35s

Maybe with her pushing TA's body into the shower with her shoes. Juan asks the blood expert about the floor shoe print and then shows JA's pic with her socks on. I don't get when she put her shoes on and took them off. But you're right, if you wouldn't have pointed it out, I would have missed it. Really odd.....

 

[Sedonia Sunset]

BBM

The problem is you are thinking about it, rather than actually experiencing someone stabbing you with a knife.

I agree. I keep thinking to the times I inadvertently sliced a finger or stepped on something sharp or even poked my finger with a needle. That first shock of pain IS incapacitating for at least a split second while your brain reacts to the pain messages being sent by the nerves. It comes over you in a big wave, and those are MINOR injuries. Just stubbing your toe can be mind-numbing for a couple of moments. You can probably pull back or jump back if your skin is punctured by a sharp object; it may not kill you, but it WILL stun you for at least a split second.

If someone stabs you, I think it would be pretty damn difficult to deal with the intense pain AND instantly respond to the assailant in the split second or couple of seconds after it happens. Even if you KNOW you are about to be stabbed, you probably are still stunned by the intense pain of it. I was astonished at how much it hurt to have a nerve conduction test when the needle was stuck into the pad at the base of the thumb. The other needles weren't that bad, but that thumb-related one set my brain to CLANGING, so I can barely begin to imagine how much a large knife penetrating several inches into my body must hurt, never mind how much I would be affected by blood loss and oxygen-deprivation.

And Travis was stabbed (some of them were cuts, as opposed to stabs) 29 TIMES. This case absolutely meets the definitions of CRUEL and TORTURE, AFAIC.

 

[G&AMom]

I'm wondering if this will come into the appeals later .. mind you, what is worse, sequestering a jury for months on end or not sequestering them, and risking they may see some of the media about the case during the trial? It's a bit of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation for a judge.

Well, I would hope a sequestered jury would be meeting more than 18 hours a week! This trial could have been a whole lot shorter. I understand that this is the normal way of doing things for a Phoenix courtroom, but it discourages sequestering a jury and gives them way too much free time. I agree with you that the judge is basically stuck.

 

[gcharlie]

re the bbm~

What does that mean? How would Juan have a copy of his notes but the defense not. Juan couldn't have gotten them from anyone except the defense, no?

JM got them from his planned expert witness, Janeen DeMarte (who, by the way, had her laptop stolen in February...but don't worry, her info was probably submitted to JM long before then). I am willing to bet the farm on this one. As part of Dick's report to her, he either provided it as protocol or she requested it from him.

Because Dick is so sloppy, it probably never occurred to him that someone would review his work. As the saying goes, the devil is in the details.

Therein lies the beauty of the situation.

 

[Arishia]

Mea Culpa!

I previously thought a small chef's knife could have made all the wounds described in the autopsy report. Until I was watching HLN After Dark tonight and noticed the autopsy report indicated a wound 1 3/4" wide by 5 3/4" deep (to the abdomen).

I had failed to take into account the 1 3/4" notation and now realize it would have taken a bigger knife--a wider blade--to inflict that wound.

It comes as no surprise Jodi would want to use the most lethal knife she could, to finish him off relatively quickly, in the shower (as she originally intended).

Note the large chef's knife in the attached photo has a blade 1 3/4" wide when it is at a depth of 5 3/4", and 1 1/2" wide at a depth of 3 1/2"--both wounds [1 3/4" x 5 3/4" (abdomen) and 1 1/2" x 3 1/2" (heart)] detailed in the autopsy report. The autopsy report describes the neck incised wound as 6" by 1 1/2".

The knife also can make cuts of 3/4" and 1" and 1 1/4" when the knife goes in less deep. Note the autopsy report said the knife hit bone at certain places in the back, which would explain why the knife didn't go very far in those particular places. The photo below shows at which points the knife goes in at 3/4", 1", 1 1/4", 1 1/2" and 1 3/4".

OMG I can't imagine the terror Travis felt when he saw that lethal weapon. She used a knife that cut bone, cut six or more muscles, tendons, the heart artery, lung cavity, came close to decapitating him. This knife explains the wide incised (more wide than deep) wounds on his scalp and base of his thumb. Not saying this is the exact type of knife she used--the blade wouldn't have to be 10" long--but imo it's close. MOO

View attachment 31037

Or more along the lines of a killing knife. The choices are many. Here's 2.
http://www.knifesupply.com/eshop/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=DOSFS1
http://www.blackhawk.com/product/Tatang,4,35.htm

 

[Nosey Parker]

But the defense would surely have controlled that or at least had access to what was disclosed. The way I read the bbm was that Samuels' testimony suggested that the defense was not aware of the document Juan had. Is that the way you meant it, or am I reading too much into it?

I assumed that the defence okayed the release of the test results to Dr. Demerte (sp?) as part of the reciprocal exchange between experts. I doubt the defence realised their copy had a different score than the one Samuels was sending over to her.

Only my assumption over the wall of objections being called though. :moo:

 

[~*~PinxJinx~*~]

I think Juan's point was that she didn't have TIME to go find ANY knife - she had to have had it on her person at the time of the attack.

And now JA has Scamming Dr Sam to thank for placing the location of the knife IN THE BEDROOM. He testified that JA told him that Travis last had the knife in he bedroom when he was cutting the ropes off her hands and feet!!


So this means that JA had 62 seconds to take Travis from a seated position in the shower in the last photo and regardless the sequence of events, according to her, drop the camera, have Travis become enraged and lean half-in, half-out of the shower and pick her up and bodyslam her onto the tile floor. The bodyslamming results in JA having the wind knocked out of her and slamming her head on the tile floor and sustaining a shoulder injury but although Travis was allegedly standing over her, coming after her in a menacing, deadly manner, she was able to recover immediately, perform a quick gymnastic roll away and spritely sprint away.

She then traveled down the hallway, not knowing whether Travis was following her or not and instead of running down the stairs and out of the house to escape her naked, wet attacker, she chose instead to dart into the closet and slam the door behind her. Suddenly remembering the location of a gun she swore did not exist, climb up the shelves to retieve the weapon and turn to run into the bathroom and assume the shooter position.

Meanwhile, Travis supposedly comes through the slammed door, chasing her down like a linebacker into the bathroom where he grabs her around her waist. At this point, with her arms outstretched and holding the gun with both hands, she fires, striking Travis in the head. JA then claims he "really got pissed off" and tackled her, knocking her down and getting on top of her as her grabbed at her, screaming "F-ing kill you b*tch" and she nimbly wriggles away and runs.

The part she "doesn't remember" but we know happened is that she the went to the bedroom and got the knife (or wherever it was), stabbed Travis 27 times as he struggled to his feet at the sink and then crawled on all fours down the hall trying to escape, with JA stabbing him in the back. Finally at the end of the hallway she inflicts the most horrific injury, practically decapitating him.

After this, she drags his body back down the hall to the bathroom (where the next pic was taken of her foot/his shoulder) and stuffs him into the shower when the final pic was taken SIXTY TWO SECONDS later.

Think about it, in that time frame, with that number of woulds, NOT considering any other factors, she would have to inflict a wound every two seconds during that time. She was in an absolte murderous, frenzied rage to be able to carry out all of that horror in just over one minute!

She is so evil, you can see it clearly in her dead, cold, black shark eyes. If only she *was* literally cold and dead. Patience, patience, patience.....

 

[Karmady]

JM got them from his planned expert witness, Janeen DeMarte (who, by the way, had her laptop stolen in February...but don't worry, her info was probably submitted to JM long before then). I am willing to bet the farm on this one. As part of Dick's report to her, he either provided it as protocol or she requested it from him.

Because Dick is so sloppy, it probably never occurred to him that someone would review his work. As the saying goes, the devil is in the details.

Therein lies the beauty of the situation.

Not sure I understand what you're saying since I think the expert reports and any additional documents would have been exchanged through counsel. But I do agree there's no way that DeMarte's work was lost on the stolen laptop. But I think that was pure coincidence anyway.

 

[gcharlie]

Read this article by Alyce LaViolette that somebody posted earlier:

http://www.leadershipcouncil.org/docs/LaViolette_JCC.pdf

She seems world's away from "Dr." S. She's published something, for one thing.

At this point, I'm inclined to think that she's going to base her testimony on the information she received from the defense: Jodi's lies and bits and snippets of emails & texts. Just as JW did yesterday, by focusing on words or phrases in the texts from Travis, I'd be willing to bet that that is all the DV expert has seen. Just like with the phone sex tape, though, once you see all the communications, it's a whole different story. I would guess that JM will be able to counter her testimony pretty easily.

ALV has interviewed JA...JM questioned JA about lying to her.

I'm very curious as to how she will testify; she's got much more of a reputation to uphold than Dick and given the publicity of this trial, it could be a make or break proposition for her career. JW and KN are probably using a lot of minutes talking to her during this trial break trying to strategize her time on the stand.

 

[sparrowivy]

Word from Hillary Wilcox - Travis's Sister

I know many of you are using a blue ribbon as their avatar and such and I just wanted to pass along a note from Travis's Sis, Hillary. She wrote on the Justice for Travis fb page we have (almost 29,000 strong now)! The family often comes to that page and occasionally posts, but it does matter what we do! I guess they are finding blue ribbons around trees now! Isn't that awesome?

My heart is filled with overwhelming gratitude to all you amazing people. It brought tears to my eyes to see how many people have changed there profile picture to the blue ribbon and the many blue ribbons hanging on homes and trees. Thank you ALL for you loving support! It truly has been a blessing to my family to have so much support. My brother truly was an amazing person and I wish all of you could have known him. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! With all my love, Hillary

 

[kscornfed]

I have mixed feelings. I LIKE JUAN MARTINEZ, let's get that said right now. I see that his style is NECESSARY for the likes of JA and, really, any witness that he knows or suspects to be lying or holding back in any way. It WORKS. Maybe it's because I've watched many more trials by now and I understand it a little better.

That said, the way he crosses his arms and is so nasty at times reminds me of the lawyer in the David Westerfield trial (he raped and murdered 7-yr-old Danielle Van Dam in 2002), Steven Feldman. I could not STAND Feldman! If I look at it from the point of view that he reviled each and every person on the stand in order to get the truth out of them, then his strategy was like JM's strategy, except that SF KNEW FOR A FACT that his client actually murdered the little girl (DW knew where the body was and was about to tell them as part of a plea bargain, but they found her first), yet he eviscerated her parents for their swinging lifestyle, tried to blame child on his client's OWN SON, and showed utter contempt for pretty much every prosecution witness.

I know that a defense lawyer is supposed to test the proof of the State's case in a "vigorous" manner. If his/her lies, deceptions, finger-pointing and sneers can poke a hole in the State's case, then that's proof he/she is doing their job and that the State's case could not hold up and could, therefore, not be PROVEN beyond a reasonable doubt. It's truly disgusting, though, that attorneys are allowed to get away with so many underhanded tactics in order to achieve that goal.

So, like I said, I LIKE JM and think his style is absolutely necessary and effective under the circumstances, but it definitely causes me to feel an uncomfortable reminder to Steven Feldman defending David Westerfield. I consider SF to have been smarmy, sleazy, and deceitful in that one trial I saw him in.

Well, look at it this way. JM is responsible for expressing the outrage of the entire state of Arizona. Feldman was just trying to get his client off.

 

[Liebchenmutti]

I agree. I keep thinking to the times I inadvertently sliced a finger or stepped on something sharp or even poked my finger with a needle. That first shock of pain IS incapacitating for at least a split second while your brain reacts to the pain messages being sent by the nerves. It comes over you in a big wave, and those are MINOR injuries. Just stubbing your toe can be mind-numbing for a couple of moments. You can probably pull back or jump back if your skin is punctured by a sharp object; it may not kill you, but it WILL stun you for at least a split second.

If someone stabs you, I think it would be pretty damn difficult to deal with the intense pain AND instantly respond to the assailant in the split second or couple of seconds after it happens. Even if you KNOW you are about to be stabbed, you probably are still stunned by the intense pain of it. I was astonished at how much it hurt to have a nerve conduction test when the needle was stuck into the pad at the base of the thumb. The other needles weren't that bad, but that thumb-related one set my brain to CLANGING, so I can barely begin to imagine how much a large knife penetrating several inches into my body must hurt, never mind how much I would be affected by blood loss and oxygen-deprivation.

And Travis was stabbed (some of them were cuts, as opposed to stabs) 29 TIMES. This case absolutely meets the definitions of CRUEL and TORTURE, AFAIC.

ITA. If you've ever woken up from surgery and are being wheeled to your room before they give you a pain killer shot, I think you can imagine the horrible pain Travis felt. It is almost impossible to move even slightly after surgery without incapacitating pain. I think that's why Jodi picked a knife to inflict her rage.

 

[Colt46]

I was reading about the murder of Travis Alexander on another site. As I scrolled down - BOOM - there was a picture of Travis Alexander taken by the medical examiner. The first picture showed Travis' face and the second showed Travis' back. I had never seen these pictures, and, wished I had not.

My question is - The jury has seen the pictures of Travis Alexander taken by the medical examiner, correct?

Presenting Travis Alexander's murderer as a PSTD Fog Admitted Murderer - makes the crime against Travis Alexander even more gruesome.

If Jodi Arias could butcher Travis Alexander - and not remember - what else could/has Arias done that she would not / does not remember? There is no excuse for Arias inflicting such damage to Travis Alexander.

When people leave their homes and say, "Did I forget to turn off the curling iron? Did I forget to turn off the iron? Did I forget to turn off the oven?," people go home and either find these things on - and, turn them off - or, find that they did indeed remember to turn them off (and their worry was unfounded).

No one comes back to find their curling iron on and says, "I left the curling iron on - I could not remember if I turned it off or not - my memory failed me - I was in a fog." Seeing the curling iron on means "you" forgot to turn it off before leaving home.

Seeing these pictures of Travis Alexander means that Arias is a evil savage beast. It does not matter if she remembers Arias remembers gripping the knife, thrusting her arm, forcing the knife into Travis Alexander body almost thirty times. Again, the fact that Arias was to "pretend" that she does not remember mutilating Travis Alexander makes her crime even worst (IMO).

If I were on this jury I would be offended - after seeing the pictures of Travis Alexander's body mutilated by evil - I would be offended that anyone would present "Fog, PTSD."

As a citizen of the United States - I am offended that this trial is being dragged out so long. The defense has had almost five years to prepare. Arias is more than capable - she is gleeful when 'arguing' with the prosecution.

Arias is an evil person - Travis Alexander's ME's photos show this. Arias admits to murdering Travis Alexander. It cannot be self defense - even a person that is being attacked cannot shoot their attacker - go get an ax and proceed to chop up their attacker.

Sorry to rant - I'm so disgusted that The State of Arizona has been "sucked" into The World According to Arias. I think that Arias enjoys all of this - I think that Arias enjoys being the murderer of Travis Alexander locked away - much more than Arias enjoyed her life before.

Well said, Thurston! I cannot add anything to your wonderful post except the fact that this vile creature was unable to shed one single sincere, genuine tear of remorse or emotion during the 15 days or so that she was on the witness stand. Cold-blooded doesn't begin to describe her. There are no words. I believe she inwardly enjoys re-living every single moment of the murder every night in her jail cell before she falls asleep. It buoys her spirits knowing that no other woman will ever have Travis.

For this reason alone, I pray she gets the death penalty.

 

[Liebchenmutti]

JM got them from his planned expert witness, Janeen DeMarte (who, by the way, had her laptop stolen in February...but don't worry, her info was probably submitted to JM long before then). I am willing to bet the farm on this one. As part of Dick's report to her, he either provided it as protocol or she requested it from him.

Because Dick is so sloppy, it probably never occurred to him that someone would review his work. As the saying goes, the devil is in the details.

Therein lies the beauty of the situation.

Awesome post! Yup. Old Sammie the Quack didn't count on a sharp prosecutor seeing through his fog.

 

[Curious Me]

2 words: Susan Smith.

OT but - It surprised me they arrested two boys in the baby's death, all in the time I ran errands. Everybody thought the story sounded too fishy, but it was true. What a shame!

http://news.yahoo.com/two-teenage-b...ing-death-205206658--abc-news-topstories.html

 

[thefragile7393]

OT but - It surprised me they arrested two boys in the baby's death, all in the time I ran errands. Everybody thought the story sounded too fishy, but it was true. What a shame!

http://news.yahoo.com/two-teenage-b...ing-death-205206658--abc-news-topstories.html

in other words....don't judge before you get all the facts.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

 

[gngr~snap]

Hmmm. JA facing jury a little yesterday...
She thinks she has them conned and she is selecting
which ones SHE wants to keep...

MOO