long weekend break: discuss the latest here #114

[ElleElle]

:floorlaugh: Not to mention his own reputation.

Gus?

The only things he murdered were his own credibility and LegalShield's reputation.

 

[Allyne Smithe]

I don't begrudge your thinking but it's so interesting how people think differently. To me, adding someone else into the scene makes the simplest sense. Because her alone, is very perplexing. Especially the photos earlier from that day. Why in the world would Travis have sex with her at this point? He despised her and knew she had slashed his tires (and his then-girlfriends tires) earlier that year (or in Dec). So Jodi is now displaying a new more frightening side to her behavior.

He might've engaged in phone sex IF......that phone call wasn't a set up (which most of us think it was...) but clearly the text messages demonstrate he knew she was a sociopath so why.....WHY would he be with her that June 4th unless perhaps, forced.

He doesn't look happy at all. Neither does she actually. Who leaves a bottle of KY on the bed when there's a night stand right there? Those photos look totally staged to me.

If you haven't, I implore you to watch the unedited interrogation tapes on YouTube. There are like 16 of them that just came out. About 30 minutes each.

She is hiding something. She knows she's caught (they have her damn photos from that day) but she is STILL holding something back.
The intruder story came out of her mouth with much detail. It's not like she had 3 years to fabricate it like she's doing now with the self-defense story, so there seems to be a modicum of truth to her original story.

The possibility of someone else there (to me and a bunch of others) is very probable. And remember, when they were closing in on her......(if she had accomplices) they could've easily made up alibis by then. This was a state-to-state investigation. Very hard to conduct with ease and in a timely manner.

If someone else was willing to be her accomplice, why would JA have to risk being there at all?

Detective Flores gave her the idea for the Ninja story, as others have pointed out. He asked if someone else was involved. He hinted it might be more than one person. All she did is construct a scenario she thought plausible that would fit into the known facts.

Relistening now to their sex tape. He is obviously being candid, talking about people he doesn't care for, talking about his plans. In fact, he starts his end of the conversation saying he's going to get "happy face and get normalized and we'll see where it takes us." If you don't think he was a willing and enthusiastic participant, I think you're overlooking how much he enjoyed sex with her.

He's the one who muses--unprodded--what pictures and angles he wants to get in their porn shoot. He tells her how gorgeous and wonderful and hot she is. At 26:15, he tells her, "Start touching yourself." That was more than a month after he texted her not to contact him again. But then he texted her sweet nothings, such as being in a nightclub and realizing she was one of the prettiest women on the planet. And asking her to send him a naughty picture.

Yes, she surreptitiously taped him but nobody was twisting his arm to say the things he was saying on his own. As a young, red-blooded male. Obviously they had many XXX-rated conversations in the past, which is why she knew she could get him on tape.

Don't forget, after she slashed his tires--twice--and that of the girl he was seeing, he STILL went on a trip with her in March, to two states. He talks on the sex tape how many times they have had sex for two and three hours--that their record was 3 1/2 hours. He tells her, "You cannot say I don't work that booty." On that very tape he says he is going to come out and visit her, that "You are at the top of the list." And that was a couple of weeks after telling her not to contact him again. And clearly after they resumed sexy communication.

Yes, the picture I am drawing you is that he liked sex! A lot! And planned to have more with her, despite knowing how obsessed she was with him. :great:

Which is why I'm convinced she did let him know she was coming, and that he welcomed her. And yes, had sex. Even if the horrible thing she'd done to him was, let's say, play the sex tape for a few Mormons--he did tell Mimi he wasn't 'worthy' but didn't tell her why--why wouldn't he have (1) accepted his role in the tête à tête since it takes two to tango--and (2) perhaps decided that since the damage to his reputation was already done, he may as well go ahead with his fantasy to do a photoshoot, and make a video, "like legitimate porn?"

As a woman, you can't be expected to know how guys think. But since the subject makes you uncomfortable, we can just agree to disagree.

I've watched most of the unedited police interrogation videos--actually one can see it all in just a couple of videos, it's not necessary to divide them up into 16 parts--and will watch the remaining bits tonight. But don't forget--both Detective Flores and Prosecutor Martinez have already made it abundantly clear that they believe without a shadow of a doubt that Travis and Jodi had a sexual encounter on June 4. Martinez said in his opening statement they were 'going at it,' 'they were sinning.' Like a black widow spider, she used sex to trap her prey. Black widow spiders are cannibals. So was Jodi.

Sex makes the world go 'round. If it weren't for males' sex drive, how many of us would even be here? :what:

 

[ElleElle]

Yes. Juan brought that up and I must of zoned when Jodi was spewing words on the stand.

I had another question, if someone knows, I would appreciate it.

Did anyone notice that Travis had a sleigh-bed style bed? What was her version of what they tied the bondage twine up to? Seems to me it would be rather impossible to secure rope to that bed, right? It's not like it was a 4-poster where you can wrap rope around the posts!

 

[ElleElle]

And let's not forget the forged pedo letters the DT tried to bring in. If I was a juror- those letters are a moot point. :twocents:

I think you're right, but JM would have the advantage --because he can trot out Matt's public statement that he would lie for JA at any moment, so that would defuse any possible benefit to the defense -- hence, they won't call him. Frankly, I don't think the State needs him even if he had less baggage, but getting him to say out loud that JA had suborned perjury (regarding the broken finger) would certainly nail the door shut for her.

:cow:

 

[Sleuth5]

And let's not forget the forged pedo letters the DT tried to bring in. If I was a juror- those letters are a moot point. :twocents:

Yes, that could be inconvenient.

 

[Steely Dan]

I don't even believe it for one second. lol

She did this all on her own and the evidence supports it too.

IMO

She did it on her own, but I think MM came to help with the latter stages. There is no evidence of anyone else in the house so I'm guessing he helped her outside the crime scene. I think he may have taken the gun, knife, dirty clothes, and other incriminating things away for her. That way if she was pulled over she'd be free of evidence. They didn't know how long it would take someone to find the body. It could have been while she was still on her trip. Notice what she says in this video approx 28 seconds in;

[video=youtube;Wm7feyvc2z4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wm7feyvc2z4[/video]


"Matt hadn't answered his phone til he was there"

Did she try to call him on a batphone, and he answered when he arrived outside the house?

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Sigh - yet another person.

So JA attempted to give the magazine(s) to Ann Campbell (JA's friend), but prison guards checked and intercepted the magazines before they left the jail, so the magazines never got to Campbell, let alone MM.

It appears as though MM's hands are somewhat dirty. Not sure why JA was trying to get this message to him unless she knew he was willing to help her. What his motive was for helping her is not clear, but at least it's a start to my understanding things better.

Thank you so much for the clarification. That helped a lot.

Jodi has a way of casting spells on men. They seem to want to help her. Is it because she gets stuff to use as blackmail? I think she was gathering blackmail evidence against Travis. Unfortunately, I think Travis called her bluff by saying he didn't care what she did. The phone sex tape would have ruined her in the Mormon community as well, JMO.

Welcomed and I totally agree, Matt is in deeper than, We've been privy too.
Suspect ,:seeya:He knows alot of detail.

I think you're right, MM knows A LOT about this. I hope he's called to the stand.

Scenario
What if matt was involved and he turns on JA, what if he was with her and confesses to JM what would happen to her case?
Sounds crazy I know?

If Matt was involved as I described above. He could probably get a sweet plea deal for testifying against Jodi. JMO

Somewhere on her trip a few times she ordered doubles like two hamburgers and two of other food items a few different times?

Do you have a link for that?

Has it occurred to anyone that MM was in the car with Gus?

He may have been? Part of the murder plot?

Arias mystery: Who was in the car with Gus Searcy? - YouTube

I don't think it was MM. I think it was a woman that he wanted to keep hidden from his wife. It seems to have become a complete non issue now. JMO

I personally believe that Mr. Martinez has Matt McCartney in his back pocket and is going to bring him out in the Rebuttal case. I think MM KNOWS something about the knife/gun because Mr. Martinez has been saying throughout trial that McCartney is someone that won't "BETRAY" you will he? This has been emphasized over and over. So it makes me think there is something REALLY HUGE in store for the ole lying murderer. Also, i asked the question earlier regarding the Jury and if they REALLY follow the admonitions to NOT partake in reading the news, media etc. and I think they have to KNOW how big this case is when they are coming in and out of court as they have to see the massive amount of National Media posted all around the Courthouse???? They just have to see it and if the do see it, that has to tell them something? Also, I just do not see how they could NOT hear about the case. It's everywhere, print media, TV, radio, internet..unless the jury completely disconnects everything in their lives. I would bet that at least ONE juror has nibbed about this case. The odds would make me think so anyway....I just hope they do their job and find her guilty as charged. Anything less than the Death Penalty will be a win for the Defense and that cannot happen. It just CANNOT, I don't think I could bear another Jury failure like the Anthony case.

BBM

IIRC, it's Nurmi who kept hammering that MM would never betray her. JM was saying that Matt would be willing to lie for you. I think they found enough evidence to indict him on conspiracy and confronted him with it. I think at that time he switched teams.

I seem to recall somebody mentioning that on another board that MM supposedly posts on. He said something to the effect of "Well I have a wife and kids to think about now." I may be completely wrong about that. I don't even know if MM has a wife and kids.

 

[SunDawnn]

For those who are adamant that there couldn't of been 'intruders' aren't thinking this out. The fact that there was no trace evidence well, there was an obvious clean-up attempt afterward. For them to ONLY find one palm print and a few strands of hair, after Travis was bludgeoned 29 times, shot in the head and throat slashed, tells me...someone did a pretty good job cleaning up.


Here's what I think might've happened.

I think Jodi got there and entered the house after being dropped off. Not sure what took place but it doesn't matter. I think at some point, 2 pretend intruders entered the house via the broken screen found outside in the backyard
Edit to add:

This scene was staged in CASE the roommates came home. Jodi pretended to be a victim for Travis' sake.

I think the intruders did wear ski masks, gloves (like Jodi said in the interrogation videos), boots etc. I think Jodi WAS taking photos and this is when the pretend intruders did their thing or let Jodi do her thing.

Why did they help? I don't know. Perhaps Jodi had something over on them and they agreed to help her in lieu of something else. Who knows? We don't have all the details to her life prior to Travis.

Why would Jodi kill Travis (alone) so close to his roommates coming home in the middle of the afternoon? I mean, she could've entered the house in the middle of the night and shot him dead in bed. But the intruders helped accomplish this afternoon killing just in case.

So just because there wasn't any trace evidence doesn't mean anything especially if they were dressed for the cause. And why was Jodi wearing ski/jogging pants in June in Arizona? Maybe she dressed the part afterward so she can escape the scene?


I think the camera was a complete oversight for Jodi thought the other person took it and in the haste to clean up the scene, it accidentally got put in the washer with the other things. There's no way I think Jodi thought the photos would wash away. Why not just take it with her/them? It makes no sense.

I don't have all the answers but this being a consideration, resonates strongly with me.

 

[katiedid2]

After I posted that last comment I had another thought. IF there was an accomplice Jodi would be screaming it from the rooftops now. You know, I know, and she knows her next address will be Perryville. All she's fighting for NOW is some sort of a life after prison. If she produced "the real killer" she might be out in 20 years or so. :twocents:

I kinda disagree
Because it would mean it was premeditated and she wouldn't want that infered.

 

[anagrammy]

No significance at all beyond seeing something slightly different from what Detective Melendez (and almost every else) saw. Just curious exactly what she was doing there. Why is she raising his right arm? Imo it has to be just moments after she slit his throat. It's rare (thankfully) that the outside world gets a peek at a murderer in action.

The foot that is shown is obviously not the one that stepped on the camera and snapped the photo. So the one we see is the weight-bearing foot. She can presume she started knifing Travis with her left hand, and that is borne out by the retina image enlarged which shows the flash to the right of her body.

I believe her hand was cut when she and Travis were grappling on the floor--and he grabbed it with her hand slippery with his blood. With her left hand cut, she would switch the knife to her right hand to slash his throat. She pulls him up by the arm or the hair and cuts his throat with her right hand and then tosses the knife aside and pulls his body around with her good right hand lifting his left arm.

She steadies herself with her cut left hand, leaving her palm print in blood on the wall. I think this is where she turned him around, possibly using the bath mat which I seem to see under his shoulder, raised up above the metal threshold as she takes the turned around body into the bathroom head first.

When she gets into the bathroom he is still making breathing attempt sounds and she imagines he is looking at her so she shoots him. The distance of the gun and the angle would match the forensics if she propped him up on the bathroom cabinet, which she might do to keep his over the tile since his bowels and bladder would be releasing their contents as she coldly watched him die.

And the bullet casing would land right where it did.

 

[ElleElle]

Yes, I do have a weird gut feeling that MM was with Jodi or knows the details of the whole murder.

Has anyone checked out his alibi for Jun 3/4?

She did it on her own, but I think MM came to help with the latter stages. There is no evidence of anyone else in the house so I'm guessing he helped her outside the crime scene. I think he may have taken the gun, knife, dirty clothes, and other incriminating things away for her. That way if she was pulled over she'd be free of evidence. They didn't know how long it would take someone to find the body. It could have been while she was still on her trip. Notice what she says in this video approx 28 seconds in;

 

[SunDawnn]

Somewhere on her trip a few times she ordered doubles like two hamburgers and two of other food items a few different times?

You're 100% correct my friend. I wish I had all the links organized but there are receipts showing this. In fact, she bought a hamburger and large soda in one transaction then the same a few minutes later.
She did this twice.
Do you recall which establishment? Was it McDonalds?

ETA: It was In-N-Out Burger and somewhere else but the receipts are here:
[video]http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag143/WSTigerBalm/Jodi%20Arias%20Trial%20%20Day%205%20%20Receipts%20 Recovered/237014-3_zpsaf8844c8.png[/video]

 

[anagrammy]

I tend to always think outside the proverbial box so...while this murder totally consumes my mind....I had a thought.

We all agree Jodi Ann Arias is a very cunning, calculating and conniving murderess who planned on killing Travis that day, right? Riiiiiiiight! (in my Juan voice). We're just not sure of the specifics like: would his life had been spared if he agreed to take her to Cancun etc. But putting that aside, it appears Jodi gave this 'potential' murder some thought regardless which included; gas cans, gun, no cell phone pings and no paper trace.

Now, what constantly keeps crossing my mind is WHY the knife? I mean, if she indeed stole (or had someone *see: Matt* steal) the gun and brought it with her.....why use a knife?

I've heard suggestions that she didn't want to call attention to the neighbors etc. But that idea doesn't bode well with me because she must've thought that out for that couldn't have been an epiphany. So...............here's my 'out of the box' thought.

Could Jodi have used two weapons to make it APPEAR there were two intruders involved?
Because honestly, nothing else makes thorough sense. You don't bring a gun across two/three states only to use a knife that MIGHT or might not do the trick.

The only other explanation that makes sense (sort of) is, the gun jammed. But then, if she got the knife from wherever; downstairs to the kitchen or if the knife was upstairs, that would entail MORE time.

The photos show there was only 62 seconds from ceiling photo to bloody photo. I don't think Jodi or any novice murderer would think to have a 'back-up' weapon on them. I think we'd all be pretty confident that a fire arm is going to work properly.
So...why the knife??

Your thoughts?

The knife is for the pleasure the sociopath gets in hurting people. They want to see the dawning recognition in their eyes that they have lost, that their (superior) killer is before them. They want to savor that.

There no thrill of revenge in a shooting. Bang, that's it. As they say, "He never knew what hit him." Sociopaths want the victim to know who hit them, again and again and again.

Secondly, nobody brings a gun with only one bullet if they intend to kill someone or even an animal. There's always the possibility you will need to finish them off. No, the gun was brought imo for the purpose of holding it on him to allow her to tie him up. Once he was immobilized, she put it aside.

I don't think she planned to use a gun for the kill because it was too impersonal and also too noisy. One gun shot may be a backfire. Two is gunfire and you call the police. Jodi's concern about noise was also a factor in the severity of her slashing of the throat - to make sure to cut off his ability to make noise.

 

[ElleElle]

In and Out Burgers?

"Sparks, Nevada

At 10:34 a.m., Arias buys gas at a 7-Eleven. It is not clear how much gas she bought. She also makes two purchases at an In-N-Out Burger at 10:38 and 10:43 a.m. "

http://www.hlntv.com/slideshow/2013/02/11/jodi-arias-trial-tragic-roadtrip <---------------The only thing good HLN has.

You're 100% correct my friend. I wish I had all the links organized but there are receipts showing this. In fact, she bought a hamburger and large soda in one transaction then the same a few minutes later.
She did this twice.
Do you recall which establishment? Was it McDonalds?

 

[Steely Dan]

All right, I'll fess up to being dared by a friend to ask that question at a Planned Parenthood appt years ago. Got that same info--no, regardless of how much consenual back door action one took, it's extremely unlikely that one's back door wouldn't return to its, uh, closed position, in a reasonable amount of time. The nice PP lady was even so kind as to go consult with other medical professionals to confirm and they all concurred that the sphincter muscle is incredibly powerful, so, unless damaged in a way consensual activity is unlikely to cause, it, uh, retains elasticity.

Whew, :facepalm: the discussions I've had on WS--bras, feces and toilet designs, and now anal elasticity...good times :floorlaugh:

BBM

If any of our computers are seized for any reason we'd have a lot of explaining to do. :giggle:

The foot that is shown is obviously not the one that stepped on the camera and snapped the photo. So the one we see is the weight-bearing foot. She can presume she started knifing Travis with her left hand, and that is borne out by the retina image enlarged which shows the flash to the right of her body.

I believe her hand was cut when she and Travis were grappling on the floor--and he grabbed it with her hand slippery with his blood. With her left hand cut, she would switch the knife to her right hand to slash his throat. She pulls him up by the arm or the hair and cuts his throat with her right hand and then tosses the knife aside and pulls his body around with her good right hand lifting his left arm.

She steadies herself with her cut left hand, leaving her palm print in blood on the wall. I think this is where she turned him around, possibly using the bath mat which I seem to see under his shoulder, raised up above the metal threshold as she takes the turned around body into the bathroom head first.

When she gets into the bathroom he is still making breathing attempt sounds and she imagines he is looking at her so she shoots him. The distance of the gun and the angle would match the forensics if she propped him up on the bathroom cabinet, which she might do to keep his over the tile since his bowels and bladder would be releasing their contents as she coldly watched him die.

And the bullet casing would land right where it did.

The knife and the gun were used, IMO, to make it look like two people were involved from the get go. Usually a killer will use either a knife or a gun, but not both. So I think she was hoping that the police wouldn't even look her way and instead look for two people. The problems for Jodi were/are the pictures on the camera and everyone knowing how crazed she is. The first words out of a lot of people's mouths after being asked can you think of anyone who would do this was, Jodi Arias.

 

[katiedid2]

She speaks about doing map quest to plan out her route...other than emails and such, we haven't heard much of what else was on her computer. Map Quest should leave a trail if she did obtain maps there.

I'm not sure about the Hoover dam either as her plates would have been upside down. I tend to think that would have been noticed at the checkpoint . However in the interrogation tapes she does talk about being on the 93. If you follow that out of Mesa - it goes right through Kingman and 57 miles north of Kingman is where her cell pinged a tower after being off. The 93 runs to the Hoover dam, 57 miles north of Kingman would place her about 5 miles from the dam on 93. The 93 bypasses the dam and goes over to Boulder City, which she claims she went through. Who knows other than her who cannot be trusted.

Was her laptop examined for pics etc?

 

[ElleElle]

She also needed 2 weapons to make it appear like there was 2 people.

I believe it was revenge and she intended to get away with it.

I wonder who else was on her "hit list"? She reminds me like a female version of Ted Bundy.

The knife is for the pleasure the sociopath gets in hurting people. They want to see the dawning recognition in their eyes that they have lost, that their (superior) killer is before them. They want to savor that.

There no thrill of revenge in a shooting. Bang, that's it. As they say, "He never knew what hit him." Sociopaths want the victim to know who hit them, again and again and again.

Secondly, nobody brings a gun with only one bullet if they intend to kill someone or even an animal. There's always the possibility you will need to finish them off. No, the gun was brought imo for the purpose of holding it on him to allow her to tie him up. Once he was immobilized, she put it aside.

I don't think she planned to use a gun for the kill because it was too impersonal and also too noisy. One gun shot may be a backfire. Two is gunfire and you call the police. Jodi's concern about noise was also a factor in the severity of her slashing of the throat - to make sure to cut off his ability to make noise.

 

[Steely Dan]

You're 100% correct my friend. I wish I had all the links organized but there are receipts showing this. In fact, she bought a hamburger and large soda in one transaction then the same a few minutes later.
She did this twice.
Do you recall which establishment? Was it McDonalds?

ETA: It was In-N-Out Burger and somewhere else but the receipts are here:
http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums... Receipts Recovered/237014-3_zpsaf8844c8.png

That link doesn't work. :sigh:

In and Out Burgers?

"Sparks, Nevada

At 10:34 a.m., Arias buys gas at a 7-Eleven. It is not clear how much gas she bought. She also makes two purchases at an In-N-Out Burger at 10:38 and 10:43 a.m. "

http://www.hlntv.com/slideshow/2013/02/11/jodi-arias-trial-tragic-roadtrip <---------------The only thing good HLN has.

Thanks, I think that might have been one for there and one to go. I see no reason for anyone to be with her after the crime was committed. JMO

 

[flourish]

I forgot to add that from the gross photos I've seen, there seemed to be a shadow present which may have made her...most nether region appear more...uh...open than it actually was...I so am not going to download and lighten and mess with those pics to make sure, though! I do have some lines I won't cross lol

And, yeah, I've already identified several fb posts, searches, etc. of mine that would really bad if taken out of context...I figure the cops would HAVE to see all the WS activity, too, right? Not that there's ever gonna be a reason for the cops to check my computer, but, well, we all wonder about that around here

Eta: thank goodness I am super camera shy now and there weren't cell phones with cameras nor the Internet as we know it back when I was a teenager! :facepalm:

 

[gloomy]

In and Out Burgers?

"Sparks, Nevada

At 10:34 a.m., Arias buys gas at a 7-Eleven. It is not clear how much gas she bought. She also makes two purchases at an In-N-Out Burger at 10:38 and 10:43 a.m. "

http://www.hlntv.com/slideshow/2013/02/11/jodi-arias-trial-tragic-roadtrip <---------------The only thing good HLN has.

I wonder if she bought two of everything to throw LE off? Or maybe two is her lucky number? She's one bizarre creep...

 

[lorynne34]

I'm certain Jodi did the whole thing by herself. The murder only took a few minutes. She had him with the first thrust of the knife. The rest of the stabbings took place while he was crawling on the floor for his life. The girl does not give a rats behind about anybody but herself, so she would be incapable of keeping an accomplice a secret. She'd throw them under the bus the first chance she got. She used the gun at the end because she had it with her. What a waste if she didn't at least fire it. MOO