These poor folks couldn't even grieve properly. Proves my point.
don't compare nothin
Loved to Death
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These poor folks couldn't even grieve properly. Proves my point.
don't compare nothin
What kind of response is that? Where did our empathy go folks? What is wrong with us? Forget your epilogue. Where is your empathy?
Would you like to read it for yourself? You talk about empathy, but you hardly know the meaning of the word. This case HURTS. It hurts me every damn day. It hurts me to think of what could have been. It hurts even more to be reminded of what DID happen, a pain I subject myself to here day after day, reminded each and every time of my mother getting down on her knees with her forehead on the carpet and a rosary clenched in her hands, saying a Hail Mary and begging God to have mercy on Patsy Ramsey's immortal soul. I'll NEVER forget that. NEVER. I can still hear the words:
"Hail Mary, full of grace The Lord is with thee Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death. Amen.
Almighty God, father of all men and women, I beg of you to lift Patricia Ann Ramsey away from all pain and suffering into the warmth of your eternal embrace to be reunited with her beautiful, precious daughter. I beg of you to show mercy as a mother and in the name of my own children. Amen."
That's more like it.
But please, don't talk about your pain until your child is killed and people accuse you and declare you even staged part of it for your own glory. Your pain? You should be ashamed.
madeleine
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Maybe.It just seemed to me that they accepted her death way to soon.Maybe I am wrong,I never been through something like that so I can't know,I just observe.Doesn't acceptance come AFTER grief and anger?Maybe I used the wrong term (they seemed pretty COOL),I am sorry,I should have said they seemed to have accepted her death.
madeleine
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Grief is a somewhat commplicated and misunderstood emotion. Yet, grief is something that, unfortunately, we must all experience at some time or other. We will all inevitably experience loss. Whether it is a loss through death, divorce or some other loss, the stages of grieving are the same.
There are five stages of grief. If we get stuck in one stage or the other, the process of grieving is not complete, and cannot be complete. Thus there will be no healing. A person MUST go through the five stages to be well again, to heal. Not everyone goes through the stages at the same time. It is different for each person. You cannot force a person through the stages, they have to go at their own pace, and you may go one step forward then take two steps backward, but this is all part of the process, and individual to each person. But, as stressed, ALL five stages must be completed for healing to occur.
The five stages of grief are:
1-Denial-"this can't be happening to me", looking for the former spouse in familia places, or if it is death, setting the table for the person or acting as if they are still in living there. No crying. Not accepting or even acknowledging the loss.
2-Anger-"why me?", feelings of wanting to fight back or get even with spouse of divorce, for death, anger at the deceased, blaming them for leaving.
3-Bargaining-bargaining often takes place before the loss. Attempting to make deals with the spouse who is leaving, or attempting to make deals with God to stop or change the loss. Begging, wishing, praying for them to come back.
4-Depression-overwhelming feelings of hopelessness, frustration, bitterness, self pity, mourning loss of person as well as the hopes, dreams and plans for the future. Feeling lack of control, feeling numb. Perhaps feeling suicidal.
5-Acceptance-there is a difference between resignation and acceptance. You have to accept the loss, not just try to bear it quietly. Realization that it takes two to make or break a marriage. Realization that the person is gone (in death) that it is not their fault, they didn't leave you on purpose. (even in cases of suicide, often the deceased person, was not in their right frame of mind) Finding the good that can come out of the pain of loss, finding comfort and healing. Our goals turn toward personal growth. Stay with fond memories of person.
Can religion really change a grieving process THAT much?Okay they were on meds as well but IMO meds is something you need when you're going through the denial stage.
There are five stages of grief. If we get stuck in one stage or the other, the process of grieving is not complete, and cannot be complete. Thus there will be no healing. A person MUST go through the five stages to be well again, to heal. Not everyone goes through the stages at the same time. It is different for each person. You cannot force a person through the stages, they have to go at their own pace, and you may go one step forward then take two steps backward, but this is all part of the process, and individual to each person. But, as stressed, ALL five stages must be completed for healing to occur.
The five stages of grief are:
1-Denial-"this can't be happening to me", looking for the former spouse in familia places, or if it is death, setting the table for the person or acting as if they are still in living there. No crying. Not accepting or even acknowledging the loss.
2-Anger-"why me?", feelings of wanting to fight back or get even with spouse of divorce, for death, anger at the deceased, blaming them for leaving.
3-Bargaining-bargaining often takes place before the loss. Attempting to make deals with the spouse who is leaving, or attempting to make deals with God to stop or change the loss. Begging, wishing, praying for them to come back.
4-Depression-overwhelming feelings of hopelessness, frustration, bitterness, self pity, mourning loss of person as well as the hopes, dreams and plans for the future. Feeling lack of control, feeling numb. Perhaps feeling suicidal.
5-Acceptance-there is a difference between resignation and acceptance. You have to accept the loss, not just try to bear it quietly. Realization that it takes two to make or break a marriage. Realization that the person is gone (in death) that it is not their fault, they didn't leave you on purpose. (even in cases of suicide, often the deceased person, was not in their right frame of mind) Finding the good that can come out of the pain of loss, finding comfort and healing. Our goals turn toward personal growth. Stay with fond memories of person.
Can religion really change a grieving process THAT much?Okay they were on meds as well but IMO meds is something you need when you're going through the denial stage.
Zak
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Hi all. I haven't posted in a long while but felt compelled to respond about the Ramsey's grieving. It is true that we do not know how they grieved in the privacy of their own home. All that we know is how they appeared to be grieving in the days and months after JonBenets murder. I must agree that they appeared to have accepted her death way too easily and quickly. They even found comfort in her death as she was now safe from pain. This is generally not how grieving parents react to the death of a child especially when that child is murdered. We are talking about a sudden and unexpected death! I would have expected them to be devastated and angry for quite some time.
Speaking from experience, I lost a cousin suddenly. He was 36 yr. old but he was my aunt and uncles "child" no matter what his age. My cousin was in perfect health, very athletic with no problems at all. Didn't smoke or do drugs. No health problems at all. The day after Thanksgiving 2004, he was playing a game of flag football with old high school buddies. He clutched his chest, said time out and dropped over dead. My aunt and uncle were devastated beyond words. They couldn't speak of him without crying. They were angry at God. Why him, he had so much to live for? They tried to understand, but couldn't accept that he was gone. When the autopsy came back with no reason why my cousins heart just quit his parents didn't accept that. They sent the results to the Mayo Clinic, not caring what it cost to find out why their beloved son was gone. Over a year later they finally had an answer a genetic defect and then they went in to another form of grief, guilt. What could they have done to have found this defect earlier in my cousins life. My aunt and uncle are still grieving for their son, this is a loss that they will never get over. This almost destroyed them and took away their will to live. They went to grief counseling, talked to their pastor and even tried meds to help them through this. They have improved throughout the years but you cannot look at these people without seeing the sadness in their eyes. Tears still flow when they speak of their son.
This is the grief that I expected from the Ramsey's and did not see. It appeared to me as they accepted her death with no anger and just went on with their lives. They should have been angry at whoever did this to their precious daughter. They should not have rested until the killer was found, doing all that they could to find that killer! And please do not say that people grieve differently because we all feel the hurt and pain just the same when a loved one dies.
Speaking from experience, I lost a cousin suddenly. He was 36 yr. old but he was my aunt and uncles "child" no matter what his age. My cousin was in perfect health, very athletic with no problems at all. Didn't smoke or do drugs. No health problems at all. The day after Thanksgiving 2004, he was playing a game of flag football with old high school buddies. He clutched his chest, said time out and dropped over dead. My aunt and uncle were devastated beyond words. They couldn't speak of him without crying. They were angry at God. Why him, he had so much to live for? They tried to understand, but couldn't accept that he was gone. When the autopsy came back with no reason why my cousins heart just quit his parents didn't accept that. They sent the results to the Mayo Clinic, not caring what it cost to find out why their beloved son was gone. Over a year later they finally had an answer a genetic defect and then they went in to another form of grief, guilt. What could they have done to have found this defect earlier in my cousins life. My aunt and uncle are still grieving for their son, this is a loss that they will never get over. This almost destroyed them and took away their will to live. They went to grief counseling, talked to their pastor and even tried meds to help them through this. They have improved throughout the years but you cannot look at these people without seeing the sadness in their eyes. Tears still flow when they speak of their son.
This is the grief that I expected from the Ramsey's and did not see. It appeared to me as they accepted her death with no anger and just went on with their lives. They should have been angry at whoever did this to their precious daughter. They should not have rested until the killer was found, doing all that they could to find that killer! And please do not say that people grieve differently because we all feel the hurt and pain just the same when a loved one dies.
He is no longer dating her. For obvious reasons she has been in the news recently with the arrest of her daughter's suspected killer and his extortion attempt involving Beth Holloway. She was quoted as saying she was no longer dating John Ramsey. No further comment was made.
A question for those who believe the R's were good, loving parents who found themselves in the unfortunate situation where P accidentally smashed in J's skull. P needed to stage J's death by strangulation to avoid prison or to perpetuate her Marilyn Monroe status never achieved in life, but much deserved, and must be acknowledged in death and in perpetuity.
For those who believe this, what is your explanation as to why they didn't grieve properly? Was it self-hypnosis, denial or what? They did love her after-all, right? Likely, they had genuine sorrow their child was killed, wouldn't you think?
IOW, the argument that they didn't mourn her loss implicates them in her death, correct? But, at least according to these theories, they killed her but were nevertheless loving parents. One doesn't have to believe they were heartless thugs to have killed and covered-up, right? If they weren't thugs, then why didn't they grieve according to acceptable standards?
For those who believe this, what is your explanation as to why they didn't grieve properly? Was it self-hypnosis, denial or what? They did love her after-all, right? Likely, they had genuine sorrow their child was killed, wouldn't you think?
IOW, the argument that they didn't mourn her loss implicates them in her death, correct? But, at least according to these theories, they killed her but were nevertheless loving parents. One doesn't have to believe they were heartless thugs to have killed and covered-up, right? If they weren't thugs, then why didn't they grieve according to acceptable standards?
madeleine
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Not to a gynecologist,to her pediatrician.
Thank you!
What about all the remarkable and deeper things mentioned in here?
http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=36&contentid=3887&page=2
TIA
MurriFlower
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Not sure about the yeast infection, more likely uninary tract infection, damned hard thing to get rid of. We already agreed that this wasn't necessarily a lot of visits, kids are always at the Doctors. I think this was over a matter of years, forgotten the actual time, but it was like once every 6-8 weeks from memory. Sounds about par for the course. I recommend skipping reading anything with the words "Satanic", "Ritual" and "Sacrifice".
Anniegirl
Have you ever thrown a fist full of glitter in the
I came upon some pics i wish I hadn't here online of Jonbenet in coffin--she has a huge blonde beauty queen wig on ( if , in fact , the pic is real)
I shook my head in disbelief how important it still was, even in her tragic death, to had Jonbenet dressed up like full flown beauty queen/princess wedding gear.
After losing her daughter in such a horrible way- you would think in least ;she would want her natural- without all the hair and tiara..etc... she was so beautiful just a natural , sweet looking little girl.
A question for those who believe the R's were good, loving parents who found themselves in the unfortunate situation where P accidentally smashed in J's skull. P needed to stage J's death by strangulation to avoid prison or to perpetuate her Marilyn Monroe status never achieved in life, but much deserved, and must be acknowledged in death and in perpetuity.
For those who believe this, what is your explanation as to why they didn't grieve properly? Was it self-hypnosis, denial or what? They did love her after-all, right? Likely, they had genuine sorrow their child was killed, wouldn't you think?
IOW, the argument that they didn't mourn her loss implicates them in her death, correct? But, at least according to these theories, they killed her but were nevertheless loving parents. One doesn't have to believe they were heartless thugs to have killed and covered-up, right? If they weren't thugs, then why didn't they grieve according to acceptable standards?
For those who believe this, what is your explanation as to why they didn't grieve properly? Was it self-hypnosis, denial or what? They did love her after-all, right? Likely, they had genuine sorrow their child was killed, wouldn't you think?
IOW, the argument that they didn't mourn her loss implicates them in her death, correct? But, at least according to these theories, they killed her but were nevertheless loving parents. One doesn't have to believe they were heartless thugs to have killed and covered-up, right? If they weren't thugs, then why didn't they grieve according to acceptable standards?
Patsy was very involved in JB's pageant "career". That morning, "Santa" brought JB a doll that Patsy had custom made for her- a MyTwinn doll made to look like JB, dressed in a pageant dress and tiara. JB didn't like it, said it didn't look like her. I think Patsy identified more with the "pageant persona" than JB. Patsy was more into the dresses, hair, makeup and tiaras.
As for the coffin photos- I've never seen one anywhere. Possibly a fake? What was the source for the photo? There were no cell phone cameras then, and I can't believe anyone would have been allowed to take that photo unless a family member did.
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