LP's timeline

[JaJo]

That is funny!!!:blowkiss: You're absolutely right.

On that note, I'm signing off with a reply that is on topic. I don't think the evidence supports LP's timeline. With regard to KC telling Amy that she got rid of the smell in her car, I believe she was equating her dump of the car to getting rid of the smell. At lease there isn't evidence that we are privy to that would support moving Caylee at the end of June around the time she dumped the car.

I think the timeline fits OK, even though what he says is questionable. He says death occurred on the 16th. 2.6 days later (time of decomp) is the 18th when he thinks KC backed her car into the garage and took Caylee out of the trunk and put her in the pool to make it seem like an accidental drowning. Instead the dead body sank right to the bottom of the pool. KC borrows shovel from neighbor to scoop body from the pool and lays it on the grass where dogs hit on. She then placed body in garbage bag and tied it up and placed it back in trunk. Decomp stays at 2.6 because body is now sealed in a bag. She dumps the body on the 25th between 8-12AM at BP which he somehow thinks lines up with the pings (or absence of pings) of her cellphone.

Timeline fits OK, but I have a problem with her dumping the body between 8-12AM at BP because it's broad daylight and joggers in the area.

This has nothing to do with the timeline, but I also have a problem with George not smelling the decomp on the 24th unless he only walked as far as the garage with KC and not right to her car when she gave him the gas cans. If he wasn't close to the trunk, though, why would she have given him the gas cans when she knew he thought they were stolen from the shed? Did she give them to him because he saw them in the trunk? If so, he had to be close enough to the car to smell the decomp. Maybe he didn't give much thought to it because at the time he was more concerned about KC's overreaction to him going to her trunk. He obviously had the 24th on his mind, though, when he said at the tow yard, "Please, don't let this be my Caylee" before even knowing the child was missing.

 

[Pharlap]

GA never went in the trunk. KC hurried and grabbed it out before he got a chance to

Sort of off topic.
When did casey steal/get the gas cans?
My thinking if it was after caylee(unfortunately died)
then perhaps casey kept them in the trunk to cover up
the smell....
Mod's if you want to delete this, go a head since it's not about LP.

 

[JaJo]

Men are NOT that observant. No man could remember what someone was wearing on a particular day 31 days later, unless she threatened to kill her or for some reason he thought that was the last time he would ever see her.

I have always believed he either had his days mixed up or made that up to cover for KC. I bet is on covering for KC.

George was a detective. My husband is a retired cop and he notices things that I would never notice. He picks up on details that the average person would never pick up on. I'm not surprised George remembers what Caylee was wearing last time he saw her.

 

[JaJo]

Didn't George say that he was the one who got Caylee breakfast each morning and that they always walked together in the mornings to the mailbox?

 

[JaJo]

Sort of off topic.
When did casey steal/get the gas cans?
My thinking if it was after caylee(unfortunately died)
then perhaps casey kept them in the trunk to cover up
the smell....
Mod's if you want to delete this, go a head since it's not about LP.

I think she needed the gas in the gas cans because she kept running out of gas. I think she figured out something was wrong with her gas indicator and couldn't tell how much gas she had in her car.

 

[BeanE]

It may not have been a fight with the parents on the 15th that set KC off, but maybe a fight with AL??? Maybe it had to do with him not wanting to be tied down with a child??? I'd love to know what they were talking about late the night of the 15th into the early hours of the 16th. I've seen no mention of what they were discussing during the calls/texts between them in AL's interviews. It seems something was up, though, with an 80 minute phone call and then AL texting and calling KC back at 3AM? I think something may have happened in those phone calls/texts that set her off.

Also, doesn't KC herself state the last time she say Caylee was when she dropped her off with the babysitter on the 16th? She returned after a normal day of work to pick her up and she wasn't there? Something must have happened between the time George saw her leave and the time she "allegedly" went to pick Caylee up from the babysitter.

BTW, I recall getting the impression when reading one of AL's interviews with the Police that they had discussed other things not included in the interview because the police didn't want it released to the public as they knew the interviews would be. This was mentioned in the interview when LE gave him $40.00 for gas to ride around with them to show them something.

- Fight with AL. I believe Jesse G said in his LE interview that when he talked w/Casey on July 16, the conversation was all about how unhappy she was with AL.

- Last time I saw. I don't think Casey ever says "the last time I saw Caylee was when". This sticks in my mind because it's odd. That's what you expect her to say. What she says is "the last person I saw Caylee with". I went back night before last and listened to her LE interview for this specific oddity. I have it on my 'to do' list today to listen to it one more time while reading the interview so I can confirm (just for my own interests) that she never says "the last time I saw Caylee". I'd be happy to let you know after I do this if you're interested.

 

[MADJGNLAW]

I'm late getting into this case but I've been reading non-stop for 2 weeks now trying to make sense of how things may have happened. LP has me at a loss because he has KC dumping the body from her trunk on the morning of the 25th. Yet....George doesn't mention anything about about any terrible smell in that trunk when he got the gas cans on the 24th.

Am I understanding George correctly in his interview with Greta that he got the gas cans out of the trunk?



The decomp smell had to be in her car on the 24th because she told her friend Amy on the 25th about the terrible smell in her car. How could George not have smelled it if he was the one who got the gas cans. And how can LP be right that KC dumped the body on the 25th if George didn't see the body when he got the gas cans on the 24th??

This part is confusing me.

Thanks

I have been looking for the link to this interview and for some reason it is not on Greta's site. If anyone finds it please share, because this has bothered me for a while, as George did state on here that he saw nothing in the truck, Cindy was acting nervous and said she knew nothing about the gas cans... I feel this interview my tell allot. If anyone finds the link and transcripts that would be great! Thanks...

 

[JaJo]

I have been looking for the link to this interview and for some reason it is not on Greta's site. If anyone finds it please share, because this has bothered me for a while, as George did state on here that he saw nothing in the truck, Cindy was acting nervous and said she knew nothing about the gas cans... I feel this interview my tell allot. If anyone finds the link and transcripts that would be great! Thanks...

I found the transcript in the sticky document section on the top portion of Caylee's board here. I quoted the portion from George about the gas cans in my lead note on this thread.

 

[Bev]

The body was in the car for 2.6 days according to the LIBS test. This test measures the levels of organic and inorganic elements. This test is not the same test as the gas chromotography mass spectrometer. This test is specific to dating the ongoing event of decomposition. The calcium : magnesium ratio was such that it indicated the body was in the trunk for 2.6 days. If the body had been in the trunk for 11 days and the bag ripped, the calcium : magnesium ratio would have indicated 11 days of decomposition. This test isn't measuring the "odour" in the car, it is measuring specific elements of human composition that then leach from the body in decompostion in 90 accumulated degree days. If the ratio of calcium : magnesium is 30 : 1 on the first day and 5 : 1 on the last day then it would be reasonable to assume that for every add the ratio concentrates at a measurable rate. If the baby died at 1 p.m. on June 16 then the disposal of the body would have occurred at approximately 5 to 7 on June 18. (A degree day is one 24 hour period with a means temp measured in celsius, it's not a calendar day.)

 

[JaJo]

The body was in the car for 2.6 days according to the LIBS test. This test measures the levels of organic and inorganic elements. This test is not the same test as the gas chromotography mass spectrometer. This test is specific to dating the ongoing event of decomposition. The calcium : magnesium ratio was such that it indicated the body was in the trunk for 2.6 days. If the body had been in the trunk for 11 days and the bag ripped, the calcium : magnesium ratio would have indicated 11 days of decomposition. This test isn't measuring the "odour" in the car, it is measuring specific elements of human composition that then leach from the body in decompostion in 90 accumulated degree days. If the ratio of calcium : magnesium is 30 : 1 on the first day and 5 : 1 on the last day then it would be reasonable to assume that for every add the ratio concentrates at a measurable rate. If the baby died at 1 p.m. on June 16 then the disposal of the body would have occurred at approximately 5 to 7 on June 18. (A degree day is one 24 hour period with a means temp measured in celsius, it's not a calendar day.)

I wonder why LP thinks KC ripped the bag when removing the body from the trunk?

 

[Bev]

LP thinks that because he doesn't know what he's talking about. If she had "ripped the bag open" when she removed it from the trunk then it would have indicated 11 days of decomp, not two.

You know, JaJo, the guy isn't even theorizing - he's throwing out various scenarios which does not fit the evidence and hoping something sticks. He's not thinking like KC, he's thinking like a made for tv movie.

1. There is no evidence that KC and her mother had a fight on the 15th and she left the house that evening - in fact the evidence points to her being in the house until approx. 12:50 pm and then back at the house at approx. 1:30. She then left again between 4 and 5 pm.

2. There is no evidence that she put the child in the pool on the 18th. If she had put the child in the pool on the 18th, then the body would not have immediately sank because it would have been so full of methane gas it would have floated on the surface, not sunk to the bottom. One look at that body on the 18th would have convinced anyone even someone as desperate as KC that the body had been dead for some time.

3. We're not looking at a complicated, devious murder plot with a method of body disposal planned out ahead of time - the fact that it was in the car for 2.6 days would indicate that this was not planned out. No one would want to ride around in a car with a dead body in the trunk. What if she had been stopped by a cop, or someone had rear ended the car at a light? It wouldn't make sense for someone to do that and no matter how bizarre the crime, the events around it have to make sense.

4. She didn't leave "clues" around for people to find that little girl. She didn't want to be caught. She hid out from her parents for 31 days and if her mother hadn't surprised her at AL's apt. she would have continued to hide out. She isn't subconsciously leaving clues around for people to find. KC is about self preservation and self aggrandizement, she sure as hell isn't about being caught and relieved of a burden.

5. LP is looking for large chunks of time with no cell phone usage.
a. this cell phone pinging is way overrated as evidence. There are dead zones, missed calls, pings not picked up be exact area towers.
b. it doesn't take a large chunk of time to dispose of a body - it takes about one minute to pull the car over, walk into the tree line, dump a tiny little body in the woods, cover it with dead foliage and walk back to the car. She isn't going to do this in an area where people might recognize her or might see her - she goes to an area that is fairly deserted at a certain time that is accessable by car and can be fairly easily explainable. "I stopped by the side of the road because I thought I had a flat tire" or "I couldn't wait to pee and had to run in the tree line" - how do you explain hanging by a river bank in a public park after dark or putting up a memorial in a tree?

People who are psychotic leave the body where it can be found - that is part of the dynamic of the crime - people who don't want to be found try to hide the body where it won't be found - Scott Peterson didn't go back to the bay to "visit" with his dead wife, he went back to a place where he could observe the police looking for his dead wife so that he would have a head start on getting away. That is self preservation. Despite all the claims by the psychologists, KC isn't a "sociopath" or a "psychotic" who enjoys committing crimes, she is a typical human being who did something very bad and is now trying to escape being punished for it - it happens every day of the week, year in and year out.

 

[Chilly Willy]

Bev, you are my hero!

 

[AutomaticAuttie]

LP thinks that because he doesn't know what he's talking about. If she had "ripped the bag open" when she removed it from the trunk then it would have indicated 11 days of decomp, not two.

You know, JaJo, the guy isn't even theorizing - he's throwing out various scenarios which does not fit the evidence and hoping something sticks. He's not thinking like KC, he's thinking like a made for tv movie.

1. There is no evidence that KC and her mother had a fight on the 15th and she left the house that evening - in fact the evidence points to her being in the house until approx. 12:50 pm and then back at the house at approx. 1:30. She then left again between 4 and 5 pm.

2. There is no evidence that she put the child in the pool on the 18th. If she had put the child in the pool on the 18th, then the body would not have immediately sank because it would have been so full of methane gas it would have floated on the surface, not sunk to the bottom. One look at that body on the 18th would have convinced anyone even someone as desperate as KC that the body had been dead for some time.

3. We're not looking at a complicated, devious murder plot with a method of body disposal planned out ahead of time - the fact that it was in the car for 2.6 days would indicate that this was not planned out. No one would want to ride around in a car with a dead body in the trunk. What if she had been stopped by a cop, or someone had rear ended the car at a light? It wouldn't make sense for someone to do that and no matter how bizarre the crime, the events around it have to make sense.

4. She didn't leave "clues" around for people to find that little girl. She didn't want to be caught. She hid out from her parents for 31 days and if her mother hadn't surprised her at AL's apt. she would have continued to hide out. She isn't subconsciously leaving clues around for people to find. KC is about self preservation and self aggrandizement, she sure as hell isn't about being caught and relieved of a burden.

5. LP is looking for large chunks of time with no cell phone usage.
a. this cell phone pinging is way overrated as evidence. There are dead zones, missed calls, pings not picked up be exact area towers.
b. it doesn't take a large chunk of time to dispose of a body - it takes about one minute to pull the car over, walk into the tree line, dump a tiny little body in the woods, cover it with dead foliage and walk back to the car. She isn't going to do this in an area where people might recognize her or might see her - she goes to an area that is fairly deserted at a certain time that is accessable by car and can be fairly easily explainable. "I stopped by the side of the road because I thought I had a flat tire" or "I couldn't wait to pee and had to run in the tree line" - how do you explain hanging by a river bank in a public park after dark or putting up a memorial in a tree?

People who are psychotic leave the body where it can be found - that is part of the dynamic of the crime - people who don't want to be found try to hide the body where it won't be found - Scott Peterson didn't go back to the bay to "visit" with his dead wife, he went back to a place where he could observe the police looking for his dead wife so that he would have a head start on getting away. That is self preservation. Despite all the claims by the psychologists, KC isn't a "sociopath" or a "psychotic" who enjoys committing crimes, she is a typical human being who did something very bad and is now trying to escape being punished for it - it happens every day of the week, year in and year out.

WOW! Great post Bev. Here is what he said on NG....

PADILLA: She was gone in the wee hours -- excuse me?

GRACE: Hurry.

PADILLA: You mean hurry. 16th, on the 24th, the body has been packaged. When she went to the house on the 18th, she packaged it. There was only 2 1/2 days of decomposition in the trunk. After that the body was packaged and didn`t rip open until the 25th.

 

[BellaPhia]

IMO Caylee was in the trunk from late afternoon 6/16 until the sometime between late 6/18 or very early 6/19 (before 6am)....when she removed Caylee from the trunk she left a decomp stain in the car....the stain over time began to smell worse and worse....on the 24th she wouldnt George near the trunk for that reason......when she texted Amy on the 25th it seemed to me the smell already existed and may have mentioned it prior to that day......do LP's theory that the bag ripped open that day....I dont agree....

 

[donnam]

Casey had taken Caylee and walked out the door to go to work many times. What was different on that particular day that they would question?

Thanks Chilly, that's what I was getting at.

 

[LCoastMom]

LP thinks that because he doesn't know what he's talking about. If she had "ripped the bag open" when she removed it from the trunk then it would have indicated 11 days of decomp, not two.

You know, JaJo, the guy isn't even theorizing - he's throwing out various scenarios which does not fit the evidence and hoping something sticks. He's not thinking like KC, he's thinking like a made for tv movie.

1. There is no evidence that KC and her mother had a fight on the 15th and she left the house that evening - in fact the evidence points to her being in the house until approx. 12:50 pm and then back at the house at approx. 1:30. She then left again between 4 and 5 pm.

2. There is no evidence that she put the child in the pool on the 18th. If she had put the child in the pool on the 18th, then the body would not have immediately sank because it would have been so full of methane gas it would have floated on the surface, not sunk to the bottom. One look at that body on the 18th would have convinced anyone even someone as desperate as KC that the body had been dead for some time.

3. We're not looking at a complicated, devious murder plot with a method of body disposal planned out ahead of time - the fact that it was in the car for 2.6 days would indicate that this was not planned out. No one would want to ride around in a car with a dead body in the trunk. What if she had been stopped by a cop, or someone had rear ended the car at a light? It wouldn't make sense for someone to do that and no matter how bizarre the crime, the events around it have to make sense.

4. She didn't leave "clues" around for people to find that little girl. She didn't want to be caught. She hid out from her parents for 31 days and if her mother hadn't surprised her at AL's apt. she would have continued to hide out. She isn't subconsciously leaving clues around for people to find. KC is about self preservation and self aggrandizement, she sure as hell isn't about being caught and relieved of a burden.

5. LP is looking for large chunks of time with no cell phone usage.
a. this cell phone pinging is way overrated as evidence. There are dead zones, missed calls, pings not picked up be exact area towers.
b. it doesn't take a large chunk of time to dispose of a body - it takes about one minute to pull the car over, walk into the tree line, dump a tiny little body in the woods, cover it with dead foliage and walk back to the car. She isn't going to do this in an area where people might recognize her or might see her - she goes to an area that is fairly deserted at a certain time that is accessable by car and can be fairly easily explainable. "I stopped by the side of the road because I thought I had a flat tire" or "I couldn't wait to pee and had to run in the tree line" - how do you explain hanging by a river bank in a public park after dark or putting up a memorial in a tree?

People who are psychotic leave the body where it can be found - that is part of the dynamic of the crime - people who don't want to be found try to hide the body where it won't be found - Scott Peterson didn't go back to the bay to "visit" with his dead wife, he went back to a place where he could observe the police looking for his dead wife so that he would have a head start on getting away. That is self preservation. Despite all the claims by the psychologists, KC isn't a "sociopath" or a "psychotic" who enjoys committing crimes, she is a typical human being who did something very bad and is now trying to escape being punished for it - it happens every day of the week, year in and year out.

Bev this is an incredible post. I was going to snip it for space, because what I really wanted to touch on was putting the body in the pool on the 18th, but I don't want to remove anything you wrote!

It would be so much easier if LP is correct, I kind-a think that's why his fans and foes alike are rooting for him. We want Caylee found, we're not there to do it so we'll leave it up to our favorite Uncle Lennie.

I've been doing a lot of reading about how hot it gets inside a closed up car.
All sites I read on agreed the temp in a closed car is up to 45 degrees higher than air temp. The temperature in Orlando the week of June 17th varied from a high of 90 to a low of 72 with the average being 81 degrees. The temperature in the car would have ranged from 140 degrees (higher according to a few sites) to about 100 degrees overnite. It only takes 15 minutes when the car is turned off to heat back up. Caylee's little body was literally baked the whole time it was in the trunk.

There's no way it was placed in the swimming pool after 2 days, because it had already turned into a wet, soupy, mess.

 

[AZlawyer]

LP thinks that because he doesn't know what he's talking about. If she had "ripped the bag open" when she removed it from the trunk then it would have indicated 11 days of decomp, not two.

You know, JaJo, the guy isn't even theorizing - he's throwing out various scenarios which does not fit the evidence and hoping something sticks. He's not thinking like KC, he's thinking like a made for tv movie.

1. There is no evidence that KC and her mother had a fight on the 15th and she left the house that evening - in fact the evidence points to her being in the house until approx. 12:50 pm and then back at the house at approx. 1:30. She then left again between 4 and 5 pm.

2. There is no evidence that she put the child in the pool on the 18th. If she had put the child in the pool on the 18th, then the body would not have immediately sank because it would have been so full of methane gas it would have floated on the surface, not sunk to the bottom. One look at that body on the 18th would have convinced anyone even someone as desperate as KC that the body had been dead for some time.

3. We're not looking at a complicated, devious murder plot with a method of body disposal planned out ahead of time - the fact that it was in the car for 2.6 days would indicate that this was not planned out. No one would want to ride around in a car with a dead body in the trunk. What if she had been stopped by a cop, or someone had rear ended the car at a light? It wouldn't make sense for someone to do that and no matter how bizarre the crime, the events around it have to make sense.

4. She didn't leave "clues" around for people to find that little girl. She didn't want to be caught. She hid out from her parents for 31 days and if her mother hadn't surprised her at AL's apt. she would have continued to hide out. She isn't subconsciously leaving clues around for people to find. KC is about self preservation and self aggrandizement, she sure as hell isn't about being caught and relieved of a burden.

5. LP is looking for large chunks of time with no cell phone usage.
a. this cell phone pinging is way overrated as evidence. There are dead zones, missed calls, pings not picked up be exact area towers.
b. it doesn't take a large chunk of time to dispose of a body - it takes about one minute to pull the car over, walk into the tree line, dump a tiny little body in the woods, cover it with dead foliage and walk back to the car. She isn't going to do this in an area where people might recognize her or might see her - she goes to an area that is fairly deserted at a certain time that is accessable by car and can be fairly easily explainable. "I stopped by the side of the road because I thought I had a flat tire" or "I couldn't wait to pee and had to run in the tree line" - how do you explain hanging by a river bank in a public park after dark or putting up a memorial in a tree?

People who are psychotic leave the body where it can be found - that is part of the dynamic of the crime - people who don't want to be found try to hide the body where it won't be found - Scott Peterson didn't go back to the bay to "visit" with his dead wife, he went back to a place where he could observe the police looking for his dead wife so that he would have a head start on getting away. That is self preservation. Despite all the claims by the psychologists, KC isn't a "sociopath" or a "psychotic" who enjoys committing crimes, she is a typical human being who did something very bad and is now trying to escape being punished for it - it happens every day of the week, year in and year out.

What a great post! I nominate you for the Post of the Day award!! :clap:

 

[allure]

It may not have been a fight with the parents on the 15th that set KC off, but maybe a fight with AL??? Maybe it had to do with him not wanting to be tied down with a child??? I'd love to know what they were talking about late the night of the 15th into the early hours of the 16th. I've seen no mention of what they were discussing during the calls/texts between them in AL's interviews. It seems something was up, though, with an 80 minute phone call and then AL texting and calling KC back at 3AM? I think something may have happened in those phone calls/texts that set her off.
Also, doesn't KC herself state the last time she say Caylee was when she dropped her off with the babysitter on the 16th? She returned after a normal day of work to pick her up and she wasn't there? Something must have happened between the time George saw her leave and the time she "allegedly" went to pick Caylee up from the babysitter.

BTW, I recall getting the impression when reading one of AL's interviews with the Police that they had discussed other things not included in the interview because the police didn't want it released to the public as they knew the interviews would be. This was mentioned in the interview when LE gave him $40.00 for gas to ride around with them to show them something.

ITA... I've mentioned before that whatever they didn't want to talk about on tape was very important to this investigation. I just think there is still a lot we don't know. I want to hear Annie's testimony. This is a crazy case, but it will be an even crazier trial, trust me. We ain't seen nothing yet. :crazy:

 

[Pink Panther]

Bev - Fantastic post!

(I disagree with you on one point only - I do think she's a sociopath!)

 

[kgeaux]

George was a detective. My husband is a retired cop and he notices things that I would never notice. He picks up on details that the average person would never pick up on. I'm not surprised George remembers what Caylee was wearing last time he saw her.

You're right. George would have been trained to be observant. One of my friends who is a detective freaks me out sometimes with the details he picks up on that just flew by the rest of us!

I have been looking for the link to this interview and for some reason it is not on Greta's site. If anyone finds it please share, because this has bothered me for a while, as George did state on here that he saw nothing in the truck, Cindy was acting nervous and said she knew nothing about the gas cans... I feel this interview my tell allot. If anyone finds the link and transcripts that would be great! Thanks...

I think you'll find that George said he never reached the trunk. Casey beat him to it and pulled the gas cans out and thrust them towards him. That's why he saw nothing in the trunk: he never saw INTO the trunk.

I think the statements will support that Cindy questioned Casey about the gas cans first, knew about them, "didn't have time to tell George," and then George jumps on Casey about the cans. (My personal opinion is that Cindy would have NEVER found the time to tell George that Casey had the gas cans: I think Cindy protected Casey alot. Even from her dad.)

Bev, you are my hero!

Me, too!! Bev, you are AWESOME! :blowkiss: