Luka Magotta AKA Eric Newman Trial, Week beginning Oct 27, 2014 - Trial Thread #3

[Rayemonde]

When I teach workshops, I make the point that the clinician should never ask himself if the patient is ill or faking. That is the wrong question. Instead, the clinician should ask if the patient is malingering, whether he has genuine symptoms or not. For example, a person with genuine schizophrenia who kills his mother over a dispute about being given money from a social security check to buy drugs may then allege falsely that he heard God’s voice instructing him to kill his mother. The person is genuinely schizophrenic, but he is malingering a specific symptom in order to be excused from the crime by reason of insanity. Thus, the question is not, “Is the patient ill or faking?” but rather, “Whether ill or not, is the patient faking a particular symptom?”

http://www.psychweekly.com/aspx/article/ArticleDetail.aspx?articleid=201

 

[Kamille]

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 6m6 minutes ago
Back from break. Dr. Thomas Barth still on the stand. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 5m5 minutes ago
Defence redirect: asks witness about Jewish General Hospital medical report shown on overhead projector. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 4m4 minutes ago
Was a referral from Dr. Jean-Destin who testified earlier. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 4m4 minutes ago
April 17, 2012: one hour interview. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 4m4 minutes ago
Do you do one hour interviews? For outpatient clinic, quite unusual. Exceptionally long, usually 20, 30 min. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 4m4 minutes ago
What would you do during that hour, or 20 min? #Magnotta

Michele Mandel ‏@MandelSun · 4m4 minutes ago
Actually an hour assessment is exceptionally long for an outpatient, says Berlin psychiatrist #Magnotta

Michele Mandel ‏@MandelSun · 4m4 minutes ago
Obviously not answer #Magnotta def lawyer was looking for.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 4m4 minutes ago
I would try to frame most important issues,what most complaining about: drug abuse, history of life, previous psych treatment. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 3m3 minutes ago
Pathological findings, as well. I would ask questions: hear voices, suffer from what, thoughts read by other people, ...#Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
Would ask if Influenced by chip implanted in your body, also ask for suicidal ideas, substance abuse, ...witness says. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 3m3 minutes ago
Defence goes through med report. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
Previously followed in Ontario for psych probs, bipolar affective disorder. Concerns? #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
Witness says many patients have short term diagnoses, borderline personality disrorder common in schizophrenics too. #Magnotta

Michele Mandel ‏@MandelSun · 53s53 seconds ago
#Magnotta told Mtrl hospital he was followed in Ont and needed psychiatrist in Montreal, needs evaluation for bipolar affective disorder

 

[Kamille]

So where was the most obvious question. If LM consistently seeks help at hospitals when he is suffering from symptoms due to his mental illness, why didn't he seek help in either Paris or Berlin?

Hmmm.....

 

[Rayemonde]

salimah shivji @salimah_shivji · 31m 31 minutes ago
2012 Jewish Gen assessment did not recommend change to meds, said #Magnotta did not appear to suffer from bipolar disorder or psychosis.

salimah shivji @salimah_shivji · 29m 29 minutes ago
Crown to Barth: Surprised? Barth: No, often schizophrenic patients seem fine 1 week, 1 day before crime, then there's a trigger. It's common

salimah shivji @salimah_shivji · 3m 3 minutes ago
Now to #Magnotta defence. Leclair says evaluation @ Jewish Gen Hospital was only 1 hour long. Barth says that's very long for outpatient.

Michele Mandel @MandelSun · 32m 32 minutes ago
Kapow: "Did you know Mr. #Magnotta worked as an actor?" Crown asks Berlin doc. "No I did not," he replies. Crown is finished his X-exam.

Michele Mandel @MandelSun · 8m 8 minutes ago
Def. lawyer Luc Leclair: referral to Mtrl hospital for #Magnotta psych assessment done Apr. 17 2012 for one hour

Michele Mandel @MandelSun · 7m 7 minutes ago
Actually an hour assessment is exceptionally long for an outpatient, says Berlin psychiatrist #Magnotta

Michele Mandel @MandelSun · 6m 6 minutes ago
Obviously not answer #Magnotta def lawyer was looking for.

Michele Mandel @MandelSun · 2m 2 minutes ago
#Magnotta told Mtrl hospital he was followed in Ont and needed psychiatrist in Montreal, needs evaluation for bipolar affective disorder

Michele Mandel @MandelSun · 37s 37 seconds ago
"I didn't see any anti-social behaviour during the week I treated Mr. Magnotta": Berlin psych.

salimah shivji @salimah_shivji · 4m 4 minutes ago
Barth says he did not see any antisocial behaviour in #Magnotta at the Berlin prison. Also gives Magnotta 10/10 for cooperation.

salimah shivji @salimah_shivji · 3m 3 minutes ago
#Magnotta was VIP patient, Barth says he paid more attention to his analysis because he knew case was important, lots of media attention.

salimah shivji @salimah_shivji · 2m 2 minutes ago
Dr Barth dismissed. Defence continues with Dr. Roy's testimony, which began Monday. She has been treating #Magnotta at RDP detention centre.

 

[Kamille]

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
Bipolar disorder v.close to schizophrenia,also severe psych condition, so not surprised about report re: suspected schizophrenia. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
Didn't see any anti-social behaviour when I treated #Magnotta.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 52s53 seconds ago
See a lot of acute schizophrenic patients who were anti-social or diagnosed with anti-social personality disorder. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 43s43 seconds ago
Sometimes traits disappear. If in full remission, can't diagnose anti social personality disorder. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 52s53 seconds ago
Witness says #Magnotta behaved appropriately with staff, though still v. distressed.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 4m4 minutes ago
Criteria for malingering, Lack of cooperation during diagnostic period? 10 out of 10, he cooperated without any problem. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 3m3 minutes ago
Anti social personality disorder, there was none? No. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
Crown insinuated #Magnotta not mingling with other inmates because language problem? Can you clear that up?

Michele Mandel ‏@MandelSun · 2m2 minutes ago
No "marked discrepancy" btwn #Magnotta's actions in the Berlin hospital and his behaviour with psychiatrist.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
Witness says no problem with language, many patients speak English, some fluent. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
He had contact with patients, was rare, and did not seek contact with nurses, sign he felt really distressed. #Magnotta

Michele Mandel ‏@MandelSun · 1m1 minute ago
#Magnotta kept to himself, didn't befriend anyone in Berlin prison hospital, very withdrawn.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
Facial expression essentially emotionless?Yes. Symptom of schizophrenia? Crown objects. Not arising from cross exam. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
Defence says he forgot to ask. Wants permission. Judge okays. Allows crown to rebut if necessary. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 39s39 seconds ago
Witness says not leading symptom. Could face trauma, appear to someone in state of shock, emotionless. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 43s43 seconds ago
But not specific to schizophrenia. Can be found in depressed or traumatized patients. #Magnotta

Michele Mandel ‏@MandelSun · 52s52 seconds ago
Berlin doc: That withdrawal by #Magnotta can be symptomatic of someone with schizophrenia

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
Crown asked that #Magnotta was a VIP, were you less rigourous in your analysis? No.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 53s54 seconds ago
I was aware #Magnotta was to be extradited, prepared discharge report.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 59s60 seconds ago
Even took more care, documented more than I regularly do since aware it was a major case. #Magnotta

 

[Kamille]

So he spent most of his time either in his private room or talking to this doctor. But he wasn't anti social.

And he wasn't treated as a VIP but the doctor "documented" more than he normally would. I guess he thought he had his own Hannibal Lector right there in his office then?

MOO

 

[Kamille]

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
Mentioned several times #Magnotta flip flopped in his conversations? Symptomatic?

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
Flip flopping not specific to schizophrenia. Accident victims can describe things in disorganized way. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
But schizophrenics can do so while in psychotic episode but not specific to illness. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
Defence done, Witness done. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
They bring back Dr. Renee Roy who is treating #Magnotta at RDP detention center. She started testifying Monday.

 

[Rayemonde]

So he spent most of his time either in his private room or talking to this doctor. But he wasn't anti social.

And he wasn't treated as a VIP but the doctor "documented" more than he normally would. I guess he thought he had his own Hannibal Lector right there in his office then?

MOO

:lol:

 

[Rayemonde]

salimah shivji @salimah_shivji · 34s 34 seconds ago
#Magnotta asked about diagnosis in April 2013. Roy said still difficult to for clear diagnosis. But she noted histrionic/narcissistic traits

Michele Mandel @MandelSun · 4m 4 minutes ago
On Aprl 25, 2013, #Magnotta reports having auditory hallucinations in Que. prison

suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 5m 5 minutes ago
#Magnotta's current psychiatrist, the one treating him in prison, is now on the stand: Renée Roy. She started her testimony Monday

suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 3m 3 minutes ago
Roy did evaluations of #magnotta whether he was apt to stand trial. He was anxious, difficulty sleeping, having nightmares

suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 2m 2 minutes ago
#Magnotta cooperated with Roy, answered questions. At first he talked a lot so it was hard to have question/answer convo

Michele Mandel @MandelSun · 2m 2 minutes ago
#Magnotta had nightmares , showed narcissistic traits.

salimah shivji @salimah_shivji · 1m 1 minute ago
Roy noted in May 2013, #Magnotta hearing +voices, stopped taking shower because worried about being sexually assaulted like in past, he said

suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 2m 2 minutes ago
#Magnotta asked Roy to see his cell, it was dirty. And he didn't want to take shower because he was worried about being sexually assaulted

Michele Mandel @MandelSun · 39s 40 seconds ago
#Magnotta told prison psych that he stopped taking showers in May 2013 because he was afraid of being raped.

 

[LoyalSleuth]

So where was the most obvious question. If LM consistently seeks help at hospitals when he is suffering from symptoms due to his mental illness, why didn't he seek help in either Paris or Berlin?

Hmmm.....

Or before he killed JL, why didn't he seek medical help?
Because he was not in psychosis then


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Kamille]

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 25s25 seconds ago
April 17, 2013: psychiatrist Dr. Renee Roy says believes they are at right place. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
Dealt with that date already. Jumping to April 25, 2013. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 41s42 seconds ago
Auditory hallucinations that Dr. Roy noted about #Magnotta: whispers when he was very anxious. For couple of years now.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
#Magnotta told her this time. Not other times, defence asks. Not regularly, she says. But specifically this time.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
Prescribed anti depressant. Very major anxiety. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
#Magnotta asking about diagnosis, as per her notes.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 40s40 seconds ago
May 1, 2013: witness reads that #Magnotta anxious about trial and sticks to his story.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 3m3 minutes ago
Witness says role is to stabilize things and contain symptoms. as attending psychiatrist of #Magnotta.

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 3m3 minutes ago
Roy did evaluations of #magnotta whether he was apt to stand trial. He was anxious, difficulty sleeping, having nightmares

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 3m3 minutes ago
#Magnotta asked about diagnosis in April 2013. Roy said still difficult to for clear diagnosis. But she noted histrionic/narcissistic traits

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
#Magnotta cooperative? Witness says with treatment he got better; before, he talked a lot, randomly.

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 2m2 minutes ago
#Magnotta cooperated with Roy, answered questions. At first he talked a lot so it was hard to have question/answer convo

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 50s51 seconds ago
May 9,2013:wanted idea of how #Magnotta functioned, how he was when he was doing better.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 20s20 seconds ago
Witness says could only contact father of #Magnotta later that month May 29, hard to specify things, talked about family probs.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
Witness talked with #Magnotta dad about how son functioned in years when he was bette, with authorization from accused.

Stephane Giroux ‏@SGirouxCTV · 30s30 seconds ago
#Magnotta told Dr Roy he didn't shower in jail because too afraid to get raped. Staff complained about his hygiene

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 55s56 seconds ago
Talks about encounter with man met on internet. Didn't take shower for weeks and people complained about #Magnotta hygiene.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 53s54 seconds ago
Always saw #Magnotta in her office but he was insistent about meeting in cell.

 

[Kamille]

Sounds to me like he was paranoid about other people in the prison taking out revenge on him because of what he did. Anyone would be. Again, not necessarily a symptom of mental illness. You think most murderers are not paranoid of all the same things he was/is in prison?

MOO

 

[Kamille]

Stephane Giroux ‏@SGirouxCTV · 3m3 minutes ago
His cell was beyond filthy, says Dr Roy #Magnotta

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 3m3 minutes ago
#Magnotta asked Roy to see his cell, it was dirty. And he didn't want to take shower because he was worried about being sexually assaulted

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 3m3 minutes ago
Witness says cell was very dirty. Suggested #Magnotta clean up one spot.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 3m3 minutes ago
Out of 10? 10 dirtiest? 8 or 9. Judge wants to discuss something with lawyers so jury leaves. #Magnotta

 

[Kamille]

Michele Mandel ‏@MandelSun · 2m2 minutes ago
#Magnotta told prison psych that he stopped taking showers in May 2013 because he was afraid of being raped.


So...he was okay from June 2012 until May 2013 when the trial started ramping up? Is this what we're being told. More "stress and anxiety" for poor little Luka?

At least 50 percent of the population is suffering from stress and anxiety I'm sure. And probably half of them are on some type of anti anxiety medication. Suck it up buttercup and take responsibility for what you did. That's what someone needs to tell this "delicate flower". :notgood:

MOO

 

[Kamille]

So he's manipulating his way in this prison as well to avoid any retribution for this crime is how I'm seeing it. Is he confined to a psych unit there as well?

MOO

 

[Kamille]

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 5m5 minutes ago
Judge and lawyers arguing legal points without the jury present. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 4m4 minutes ago
Debate over. Jury on the way. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 3m3 minutes ago
Jury back. Defence asks about Aug, 22, 2014. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 3m3 minutes ago
Three paragraph report. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
Witness reads note: #Magnotta describes noises, whispers, like cell attached to his head.

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 2m2 minutes ago
August 22, 2014, #Magnotta heard voices. Prescribed meds to help him sleep

Michele Mandel ‏@MandelSun · 1m1 minute ago
Aug 22 2013, #Magnotta reports hearing voices again, like a cellphone in his head.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
Roy says meds given at night so he can sleep but then tried another med, doesn't increase appetite, and slowly decrease dosage. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
Re: whispers. Related to meds? Maybe, since taking less. Had taken stronger meds in past, maybe psychotic symptoms more evident. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 1m1 minute ago
#Magnotta tried taking correspondance courses? Witness says started french and history courses but stopped. Too hard to focus.

 

[Kamille]

But maintaining 70 facebook accounts, multilple user names on forums, blogs, you tube accounts etc. while cultivating an entire persona online was not too hard to focus on.

GMAFB :gaah:

MOO

 

[Kamille]

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
May 2, 2014:#Magnotta in court for past few weeks, make him more anxious.

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 3m3 minutes ago
Change in attitude of jail staff towards him. Jump to conclusions, worried about noises, communication trnasmissions. #Magnotta

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 3m3 minutes ago
When #Magnotta started going to court, became anxious. Found staff attitude changed towards him. Was hearing noise as if cell phone in head

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
Oct, 8, 2014: last report. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 2m2 minutes ago
No suicidal thoughts. No major anxieties or voices. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 42s43 seconds ago
Pre preliminary hearing, make plan to manage anxiety? Could see him every three weeks and at night. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 39s40 seconds ago
Strategy for trial? Lots of music to keep voices in check. Defence done. #Magnotta

Shuyee Lee ‏@sleeCJAD · 55s56 seconds ago
Crown should begin cross examination tomorrow. Adjourned until then. #Magnotta

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

OK, so big fat Luka is manipulating every hospital/psychiatrist/prison/person on earth and NO ONE in that court room can see it?

Let's pray the jury can cut through this load of crap!

(GMAFB)

 

[Kamille]

I hope the music he's listening to is from the big band era. Wouldn't want him to be influenced by any of that metal or "alternate" music. :floorlaugh:

Maybe they just let him play the soundtracks to all his favourite horror movies on his prison issued Ipod? Or does he have a full Bose sound system in his private room at a psych unit in the detention center he's staying at?

SMH :notgood:

MOO