Luka Magotta AKA Eric Newman Trial, Week beginning Oct 27, 2014 - Trial Thread #3

[BorgQueen]

Wow. The only thing better about this witness is that his default answer isn't something like "I don't know, it must be psychosis. PSYCHOSIS!!! PSYCHOSIIIISSS!!!!"
He wasn't very thorough, was he? Granted, he wasn't licensed as a forensic psychiatrist at the time. This should be a massive learning experience for him. Another thing different between him and Allard, he seems to be very ambitious and into the whole 'learning' thing. So perhaps he will be better in the future? :facepalm:

 

[Kamille]

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC · 6m6 minutes ago
#Magnotta a dit que Manny l'avait appelé plusieurs fois la nuit du meurtre. Mais Watts n'a pas vérifié ça avec les données de son cellulaire

Translation: #Magnotta said Manny had called several times the night of the murder. Watts did not check it with data from his cell

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC · 4m4 minutes ago
Watts répète qu'à son avis, Manny est un vrai client que #Magnotta a rencontré à NY. Plus tard, il est devenu une voix dans sa tête

Translation: Watts reiterated his view, Manny is a true client #Magnotta met in NY. Later, it became a voice in his head

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 4m4 minutes ago
Crown: #Magnotta says Manny called many times on night of killing, did you verify this w/phone records? Watts admits he didn't think of it.

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC · 5m5 minutes ago
Couronne doute que Lin Jun a accepté d'être filmé au lit avec #Magnotta. Dit qu'il était un gai dans le placard.

Translation: Crown doubts that Lin Jun agreed to be filmed in bed with #Magnotta . Said he was an in the closet gay man.

christianedesjardins ‏@chridesjardins · 3m3 minutes ago
Couronne suggère que Lin Jun était en vie à 4h36 le matin du 25 mai 2012, quand #Magnotta est sorti de l'immeuble.

Translation: Crown suggests that Lin Jun was alive at 4:36 in the morning of May 25, 2012, when #Magnotta came out of the building

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 42s42 seconds ago
Crown suggests chronology not right in #Magnotta version given to Watts, suggest that Lin was alive while accused going in/out of apartment.

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC · 3m3 minutes ago
L'hypothèse s'appuie sur fait que #Magnotta dit être allé promener son chien après avoir donné temazepam à Lin; il sort avec chien à 4h36

Translation: The hypothesis is based on the fact that #Magnotta said he took the dog for a walk, after giving Jun Lin temazepam. He goes out with the dog at 4:36am

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 1m1 minute ago
Watts: it's common for patient's version to lack clear-cut chronology. It's possible #Magnotta sequence of events does not fit with video.

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC · 3m3 minutes ago
Êtes-vs en train de dire qu'on ne peut se fier à la version de #Magnotta? demande la Couronne. Non, mais séquence peut ne pas correspondre.

Translation: Are you saying that we can not rely on the version of #Magnotta? asked the Crown. No, but the sequence doesn't match.

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC · 2m2 minutes ago
Watts reconnaît qu'il est possible que Lin Jun était bel et bien mort quand #Magnotta est sorti avec son chien à 4h36. "Noboby knows" dit-il

Translation: Watts acknowledges that it is possible that Lin Jun was indeed dead when #Magnotta came out with his dog at 4:36am. " Nobody knows ," he said

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC · 1m1 minute ago
Plusieurs raisons pour expliquer que #Magnotta peine à se souvenir. Peut ne pas vouloir se rappeler pour éviter traumatisme -Watts

Translation: Several reasons for #Magnotta not to remember. May not want to remember to avoid trauma -Watts

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC · 2m2 minutes ago
Possible aussi que sa mémoire a été altérée par son état psychotique, ajoute Watts. #Magnotta

Translation: Also possible that his memory was impaired by his psychotic state , says Watts . #Magnotta

suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 5m 5 minutes ago
I don't want to remember it, #magnotta told Watts. What does this mean crown wants to know. not putting effort into remembering

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 2m2 minutes ago
#Magnotta said he didn't like doing sexual acts with Lin's body. Felt sick. So he remembered that?

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 2m2 minutes ago
#Magnotta was crying in bathroom because didn't want to have sex with Lin any more. But then he had sex with the corpse, crown said

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 2m2 minutes ago
Well, he didn't have sex with the corpse, he performed sexual acts on parts of Lin Jun's body, Watts says #Magnotta

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 1m1 minute ago
And that's it for today. Back at 9:30 tomorrow #Magnotta

 

[Rayemonde]

I wonder when he got given all the prosecution evidence though. Did he have time to go through it all with LM?

 

[Kamille]

Wow. The only thing better about this witness is that his default answer isn't something like "I don't know, it must be psychosis. PSYCHOSIS!!! PSYCHOSIIIISSS!!!!"
He wasn't very thorough, was he? Granted, he wasn't licensed as a forensic psychiatrist at the time. This should be a massive learning experience for him. Another thing different between him and Allard, he seems to be very ambitious and into the whole 'learning' thing. So perhaps he will be better in the future? :facepalm:

Not giving a pass for inexperience. He obtained his forensic license while he was working on this case.

As he himself stated, he was not there as an investigator for the crown. He was there to determine whether LM was NCR for this murder. So it appears that there was information he did not get access to and information he chose to ignore, or to make up his own assumptions about, to come to this conclusion. It was his duty to do some investigative work on the inconsistencies to come to a proper conclusion IMO. And he chose not to. He chose to believe everything a known pathological liar said to him and to coddle him and blame his mental illness for everything.

I personally see this as completely morally wrong in a murder investigation. Completely. Especially for someone who was told right at the beginning that LM may be putting on a "show". He was told that for a reason. LE knew ALL ABOUT Luka Magnotta before going to pick him up in Berlin.

MOO

 

[Rayemonde]

I don't care if he tried to buy some weed, what did he text to his sister immediately after the murder?!?!?! :banghead:

 

[Kamille]

I wonder when he got given all the prosecution evidence though. Did he have time to go through it all with LM?

True, he did start working for the defense early on, in Sept 2012. But he worked on it for a year. I'm sure he would have received all of the discovery by then. This murder wasn't very hard to investigate thanks to the fact that the garbage was not picked up. It's the rest of the stuff relating to LM's state of mind that LE would have had to spend a ton of time on. And then most of it was probably thrown out as evidence anyway unless it directly reflected on this murder and not on past behaviour. Except for the email to the Sun, threatening to kill a human, which in turn allowed the cat video in. And the references that LM himself made to Holmoka during the mailing of the body parts which allowed that evidence to come in.

MOO

 

[BorgQueen]

Not giving a pass for inexperience. He obtained his forensic license while he was working on this case.

As he himself stated, he was not there as an investigator for the crown. He was there to determine whether LM was NCR for this murder. So it appears that there was information he did not get access to and information he chose to ignore, or to make up his own assumptions about, to come to this conclusion. It was his duty to do some investigative work on the inconsistencies to come to a proper conclusion IMO. And he chose not to. He chose to believe everything a known pathological liar said to him and to coddle him and blame his mental illness for everything.

I personally see this as completely morally wrong in a murder investigation. Completely. Especially for someone who was told right at the beginning that LM may be putting on a "show". He was told that for a reason. LE knew ALL ABOUT Luka Magnotta before going to pick him up in Berlin.

MOO

Oh, make no mistake, I am not giving him a pass for inexperience, either. I am also not giving him a pass for not having all information available to him. He was hired to do a job for the defence, and in order to do THAT job, he had to overlook some things, take Magnotta for his word, and come up with his own conclusions without evidence or answers. Indeed, this is morally wrong. But would he have come to the conclusion he made had he done this properly? I have a feeling he wouldn't have.

Something needs to be done about these unethical "forensic psychologists". Not just these two, but all of them. Even the ones who ARE ethical. There seems to be very little regulation and they are allowed to twist things to fit the 'side' they're hired for. Not to mention somebody who wasn't even licensed to do the job being allowed to do the job (whether he obtained the license while doing the job or not). That shouldn't have been allowed. (moo)

 

[Kamille]

I don't care if he tried to buy some weed, what did he text to his sister immediately after the murder?!?!?! :banghead:

LMAO Rayemonde....it's trés irritating isn't it. hahahaha :floorlaugh:

 

[Rayemonde]

LM admitted the Sun e-mail, kitten killing and Homolko rumours though. If Watts were really unethical he wouldn't have put that stuff in his report because it's badly harmed LM's defence IMO.

 

[Kamille]

Oh, make no mistake, I am not giving him a pass for inexperience, either. I am also not giving him a pass for not having all information available to him. He was hired to do a job for the defence, and in order to do THAT job, he had to overlook some things, take Magnotta for his word, and come up with his own conclusions without evidence or answers. Indeed, this is morally wrong. But would he have come to the conclusion he made had he done this properly? I have a feeling he wouldn't have.

Something needs to be done about these unethical "forensic psychologists". Not just these two, but all of them. Even the ones who ARE ethical. There seems to be very little regulation and they are allowed to twist things to fit the 'side' they're hired for. Not to mention somebody who wasn't even licensed to do the job being allowed to do the job (whether he obtained the license while doing the job or not). That shouldn't have been allowed. (moo)

I don't think he had to be licensed as a forensic psychologist to do the job he was hired to do? It was him being sworn in as an expert and a forensic psychologist that I question. If you remember, LeClair spent over an hour on his CV and it seems he's never really been an actual psychologist. He does assessments for Pinel and does lectures or something? He's never had a practice I don't think. Or a patient load. Was his "expert opinion" as a psychologist or as a forensic psychologist? I guess it doesn't matter? Either way, he failed IMO.

Dr Allard is an obvious "paid expert". It's all about the money for her.

MOO

 

[Little Jedi]

Poor Luka... failed model, failed pornstar, failed escort, failed necrophiliac, failed cannibal, failed psychopath, failed serial killer. He really can't do anything right, can he?

Even his imaginary friend doesn't talk to him any more. :giggle:

:star: * Thanks again everyone for the updates * :star:

 

[Kamille]

LM admitted the Sun e-mail, kitten killing and Homolko rumours though. If Watts were really unethical he wouldn't have put that stuff in his report because it's badly harmed LM's defence IMO.

It was all in the discovery. That information was coming in to this trial regardless of who brought it in. Alex West testified to the email, the kitten video and his interview with LM about it. The Karla rumours would have come in, whether they could be substantiated, because of the packages.

The defense did this with the two different doctors to get LM's testimony on it all without him having to be cross examined. And to form the defense that he did all of this after he stopped seeing his psychiatrist. So all of it was a mental health decline leading to the murder don't you see.

Of course all the other stuff he did, posted about, lied about, prior to that was left out. I don't recall his fraud conviction coming in to the trial? Was it? How come no one asked him what he was "feeling" when he scammed that poor mentally disabled girl?

:thinking:

MOO

 

[Kamille]

Remember, the point of the NCR verdict is to possibly be "rehabilitated" and returned to society. That's going to be a problem if he doesn't fess up to all the bad behaviour and lump it all into his "illness" for which he was not being monitored or medicated.

:gaah:

 

[Rayemonde]

I don't think that stuff would have come into the trial at all if it weren't for Watts getting LM to admit it
The crown apparently made no attempt to investigate the kitten killing videos and no effort to prove that LM sent the email or started ylthe Homolka rumours. Didn't LE even make a statement at the beginning of the investigation that LM was actually dating KH?
The defence probably could have gotten all of this thrown out as evidence if it weren't for LM admitting it to Watts and Watts reporting it.

 

[Little Jedi]

i personally see this as completely morally wrong in a murder investigation. Completely.

^^^ Absolutely This ^^^

* Thanks for the Tweets *

 

[DaveNP]

Lots of mention of the kitten videos but I don't recall reading anything about the pics he took of the kittens dead,being 'used' ? The pics I saw I think would have been taken after his vacuum video as he seems to have same top on in video as in the pics......

Also noticed that the python vid and bath time vid were took in same apartment/place,vacum vid 'looks' to be somewhere else.The snake video posted above was called the aftermath video (just after it was fed).It wouldn't surprise me if other vids were made with snake........

 

[Little Jedi]

LM admitted the Sun e-mail, kitten killing and Homolko rumours though. If Watts were really unethical he wouldn't have put that stuff in his report because it's badly harmed LM's defence IMO.

He didn't really have much choice.

The defense knew full well that information was going to come out during the trial due to Alex getting subpoenaed when he went to Montreal to report on the pre-trial.

 

[Rayemonde]

"The Crown is also planning to call another psychiatrist to counter the experts brought forth by the defence team."
http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/mobile/magnotta-doctor-says-murderer-was-schizophrenic-1.2107676

Good!

 

[Rayemonde]

In his assessment of Magnotta's criminal responsibility, Watts ruled out Narcissistic Personality Disorder as a factor in the killing.

In his report, Watts said Magnotta didn't display a narcissist's "pervasive lack of empathy, the need for admiration" or "sense of entitlement."

He added that Magnotta's "attempts to appear famous and special" are the exception, not the rule."

http://www.thesudburystar.com/2014/...nplays-e-mail-magnottas-sister-told-him-about

 

[Kamille]

I don't think that stuff would have come into the trial at all if it weren't for Watts getting LM to admit it
The crown apparently made no attempt to investigate the kitten killing videos and no effort to prove that LM sent the email or started ylthe Homolka rumours. Didn't LE even make a statement at the beginning of the investigation that LM was actually dating KH?
The defence probably could have gotten all of this thrown out as evidence if it weren't for LM admitting it to Watts and Watts reporting it.

LM was already being investigated for the kitten videos. LE in Ontario I believe were trying to locate him to question him about it. But he had moved to Montreal. And you know how bad the red tape between provinces can be. Especially between Ontario and Quebec. Just the language barrier alone is daunting. So apparently Montreal LE had already stopped by one of his previous addresses to try to locate him but he had lived in three different places during his time in Montreal. So they had not yet located his new address when this happened.

I've no doubt that most of what LM told Watts was stuff he expected to be brought up in the trial, likely due to discovery, and he was being pre-emptive with talking about it all and minimizing it as something he didn't understand. I believe LM is very savvy when it comes to this stuff. He knew not to talk to LE or anyone else really about the murder when he was first picked up. I can't remember but was he even talking about government agents and spies in Berlin? Or was it just the Manny and Debbie the witch commentary over there? And he spent 6 days in LE lock up until he managed his transfer to the "5 star" facility. He said nothing to LE over there in those 6 days about this murder? About anything? If he was in a true psychosis wouldn't he have just been rambling to anybody who would listen? Why only to the doctors?

I truly believe he figured out a way to get out of things with his diagnosis back in 2003 with the fraud charges and he's been working it ever since.

MOO