Luka Magotta AKA Eric Newman Trial, Week Nov 20, 2014 - Trial Thread #4

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  • #241
Well it proves that he is concerned about his looks and likes to take care of himself, which contradicts the behaviour of a person with schizophrenia apparently. Also might go towards the comments about him pulling out his hair and needing transplants. Was he doing that back in 2008 as well?

MOO

MOO

Pulling out his hair sounds like an OCD thing to me, which goes along with an anxiety disorder and they both go along with personality disorders. If I was on that jury I would be wondering why the defense put up an objection to that video that took hours to settle. I hope they are able to sort through all this. Another thing that occurred to me is that I don't believe a schizophrenic would be able to sit calmly through this much court, just bent over and acting like he doesn't care. A schizophrenic would be very stressed by this and probably agitated.
 
  • #242
But using Mr. Magnotta’s health records, Dr. Chamberland showed Quebec Superior Court Judge Guy Cournoyer and the jurors just how dubious the foundations of the schizophrenia diagnosis may actually be.

And he did it by showing first, how quickly and on how little information the original diagnosis was made and, more importantly, how once made, it immediately came to be seen by other doctors as written in stone.

Mr. Magnotta first reported having symptoms such as hallucinations and delusions as a teenager, when he was living with his family — including his schizophrenic father — in the Peterborough, Ont. area.
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com...sis-was-quickly-written-in-stone-trial-hears/

One thing I know for sure is that anyone having delusions doesn't say they are having delusions because they believe what is happening is real. It's usually family and friends and medical staff who decide this, but Luka said all along he was having delusions and you would think one of his Doctors would have picked up on that. ( or maybe they did and that's why they wondered if he was malingering) MOO
 
  • #243
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com...sis-was-quickly-written-in-stone-trial-hears/

One thing I know for sure is that anyone having delusions doesn't say they are having delusions because they believe what is happening is real. It's usually family and friends and medical staff who decide this, but Luka said all along he was having delusions and you would think one of his Doctors would have picked up on that. ( or maybe they did and that's why they wondered if he was malingering) MOO

You know it's strange but I kept thinking that all along. That the first psychiatrist, for whatever reason, made a quick diagnosis and that the diagnosis just stuck over the years. But that he used it to his advantage and chose to disregard it when appropriate as well. It helped him with that fraud charge. And it was a source of income for a while.

He kept telling them symptoms of schizophrenia, or at least how he perceived them, instead of just telling them exactly what he was experiencing and letting them decide if it was a symptom. Except for the two incidents when "Manny" turned up. To take the blame for his illegal and immoral behaviour. There is nothing in any of his records, prior to the letter to the lawyer, that indicates that the "voices" are telling him to do anything bad. Nothing. And then he got to Dr. Barth. And he laid it on really thick.

I personally don't believe most of what he's been selling over the years. Nor do I believe that someone in his line of work and hanging with the people that he would have been hanging with has not done drugs. And I definitely don't believe what he's selling at this trial. He knew what he was doing and had planned it for months.

MOO
 
  • #244
Pulling out his hair sounds like an OCD thing to me, which goes along with an anxiety disorder and they both go along with personality disorders. If I was on that jury I would be wondering why the defense put up an objection to that video that took hours to settle. I hope they are able to sort through all this. Another thing that occurred to me is that I don't believe a schizophrenic would be able to sit calmly through this much court, just bent over and acting like he doesn't care. A schizophrenic would be very stressed by this and probably agitated.

Does anyone know, what medications LM gets at the moment?
Perhaps he is so highly dosed, that he only apathetic sit on his chair?
 
  • #245
Does anyone know, what medications LM gets at the moment?
Perhaps he is so highly dosed, that he only apathetic sit on his chair?

Good question. Or perhaps he doesn't require any medication at all so that what he is getting is making him spaced out?
 
  • #246
TRIAL CONTINUES - THURSDAY 27 NOVEMBER, 2014

No link because I don't know who's covering it today.


:jail:
 
  • #247
Pulling out his hair sounds like an OCD thing to me, which goes along with an anxiety disorder and they both go along with personality disorders. If I was on that jury I would be wondering why the defense put up an objection to that video that took hours to settle. I hope they are able to sort through all this. Another thing that occurred to me is that I don't believe a schizophrenic would be able to sit calmly through this much court, just bent over and acting like he doesn't care. A schizophrenic would be very stressed by this and probably agitated.

His psychiatrist said they've increased his meds to deal with the stress of court. He's probably doped up to his eyeballs.
His mum apparently had OCD, does it run in families?
 
  • #248
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com...sis-was-quickly-written-in-stone-trial-hears/

One thing I know for sure is that anyone having delusions doesn't say they are having delusions because they believe what is happening is real. It's usually family and friends and medical staff who decide this, but Luka said all along he was having delusions and you would think one of his Doctors would have picked up on that. ( or maybe they did and that's why they wondered if he was malingering) MOO

He didn't go to the doctor and say "Hello, I am having delusions". They thought he was having delusions because he was telling them that people were tape recording him, watching him through binoculors etc. And then he would get angry because the doctors didn't believe him that these things were really happeneing.
 
  • #249
You know it's strange but I kept thinking that all along. That the first psychiatrist, for whatever reason, made a quick diagnosis and that the diagnosis just stuck over the years. But that he used it to his advantage and chose to disregard it when appropriate as well. It helped him with that fraud charge. And it was a source of income for a while.

He kept telling them symptoms of schizophrenia, or at least how he perceived them, instead of just telling them exactly what he was experiencing and letting them decide if it was a symptom. Except for the two incidents when "Manny" turned up. To take the blame for his illegal and immoral behaviour. There is nothing in any of his records, prior to the letter to the lawyer, that indicates that the "voices" are telling him to do anything bad. Nothing. And then he got to Dr. Barth. And he laid it on really thick.

I personally don't believe most of what he's been selling over the years. Nor do I believe that someone in his line of work and hanging with the people that he would have been hanging with has not done drugs. And I definitely don't believe what he's selling at this trial. He knew what he was doing and had planned it for months.

MOO

Let me see... it was his grandmother who first took him to a psychiatrist when he was 18. And in 2001 he went to a walk-in clinic for a sore throat and mentioned that he was hearing voices. Then in March 2002 his psychiatric notes say that he was hearing male and female voices, and thought the police and FBI were after him. He thought people could hear his thoughts, and his grandmother wanted him to go back into the group home because she couldn't cope. This is where the crisis worker's notes said "Bizarre, interesting presentation (in what way?? i wish we had more info about this!) and the doctor suspected LM was seeking secondary gain, but he didn't know what the gain might be. But they still put him on antipsychotics, which they wouldn't have done if they just thought he was faking.
His psychiatric notes through the years are pretty consistent in saying that he was hearing voices, but they don't mention what the voices were saying.

And as for that note applying for disability money, Chamberland was suspicious because LM describes the symptoms of schizophrenia so well. LM had a lot of support at the time, and someone probably told him he was eligible for help and helped him to fill in the forms - a social worker or psychiatric nurse probably sat down with him and told him what to write. That's part of their job, to make sure that mentally ill people get the support that they are entitled to.

Remember that Chamberland is being PAID to testify, just like Allard and Watts were. He's just going through the years of medical records and cherry-picking anything that supports the conclusion he wants to come to.

Also, MANY people with schizophrenia do also abuse drugs (in an attempt to self-medicate) and many do also have co-morbid personality disorders. These things don't show that LM was faking schizophrenia.

Chamberland thinks LM was faking his symptoms at first, but then when he was hospitalised he thinks he really was psychotic, but it was caused by cocaine? I don't know how common cocaine psychosis is in someone who doesn't already have an underlying problem such as schizophrenia... Most people who take cocaine don't develop hallucinations and delusions and need to be hospitalised.

March 2003 LM's dad takes him to the doctor because he is psychotic. LM is hospitalised for 12 days and treated with antipsychotic injections. Would psychosis induced by cocaine necessitate someone being hospitalised for 12 days, or would they recover quickly from the psychosis once the effect of the cocaine wore off? :thinking: March 25th rehosptalised, thinks his roomates are stealing his thoughts and have installed cameras to watch him. April 7th released from hospital, but still suffering from paranoia.
It was in March 2003 that LM first started being treated with injections of antipsychotic meds. But by March 2005 he is missing appointments. Does this mean that he WAS having regular injections up until then? :shrug: We just don't get the full pictures from the tweets.
 
  • #250
Does anyone know, what medications LM gets at the moment?
Perhaps he is so highly dosed, that he only apathetic sit on his chair?

Here's what his psychiatrist said:
Shuyee Lee @sleeCJAD · 10s 10 seconds ago
#Magnotta taking big dose of anti anxiety meds, makes him more tranquil.

suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 2m 2 minutes ago
I notice that since I came in the courtroom he is bent over and not looking at anyone, Roy says #magnotta

suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 1m 1 minute ago
Increased dosage of meds to help him get through the prelim and the trial, Roy said #Magnotta

Just glancing back over the tweets, looks like he's still on antipsychotics and antidepressants as well. The tweets don't specify what meds or what doses.
 
  • #251
"SURPRISINGLY RAPID DIAGNOSIS":

NOTE: I'VE DELETED THE LINK BECAUSE THE CBC HAS BEEN HACKED BY THE SYRIAN ELECTRONIC ARMY. Just trying to keep us all safe........
 
  • #252
  • #253
  • #254
  • #255
suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 23m 23 minutes ago

I'll be there to report on anything significant, just not live tweeting. My thumbs need a break! #Magnotta
0 replies 1 retweet 2 favorites
suemontgomery @MontgomerySue · 27m 27 minutes ago

I won't be live tweeting #Magnotta today. Sorry...
 
  • #256
Haha, poor Sue Montgomery :P
 
  • #257
I can split the French tweets with someone if you like? I couldn't keep up with all the translating yesterday, I did as much as I could but I had to skip tweets that were just giving the same information in different ways.
 
  • #258
suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 45m45 minutes ago
I won't be live tweeting #Magnotta today. Sorry...

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue · 40m40 minutes ago
I'll be there to report on anything significant, just not live tweeting. My thumbs need a break! #Magnotta

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 3m3 minutes ago
#Magnotta trial is late starting but today we will hear more from Dr. Gilles Chamberland, psychiatrist hired by the Crown.
 
  • #259
I can split the French tweets with someone if you like? I couldn't keep up with all the translating yesterday, I did as much as I could but I had to skip tweets that were just giving the same information in different ways.

At the moment it looks like we have 1 English and 4 French reporters tweeting. I'll take Francois Messier and Mathieu Belhumeur if you want to take Michaël Nguyen and Isabelle Richer.

I guess we can both intermix the English tweets in?
 
  • #260
salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 8m8 minutes ago
30 minutes late, #Magnotta trial underway but with a legal chat sans jury for now.
 
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