GUILTY MA - Colleen Ritzer, 24, brutally murdered, Danvers, 22 Oct 2013 #1

[PrairieWind]

For those that missed Nancy Grace/HLN segment on the Colleen Ritzer murder:

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/11/25/affidavit-teen-slit-teachers-throat-hid-body

Affidavit: Teen slit teacher’s throat, hid body in woods
By Katherine Cavazini

I was just going to ask if anyone had gotten to see that, and if there was anything new.

 

[liljim]

i watched it, there wasnt anything new except they had footage of an interview with one of the students who witnessed the two of them in the classroom shortly before the murder (i had not seen this before, but they did not focus on it like it was "breaking" so maybe it is not new)

they did repeat what erin burnett reported a few days ago (i commented on it upthread) that there was an incident between PC and CR in the classroom the day before the murder. im pretty sure they are still mistaken and they are referring to the witness who reported seeing the two of them on the actual day of the murder, just shortly before it happened actually.

(im referring to the story of a witness saying that PC got upset when the two were talking and CR did not notice that he was getting upset)

 

[PrairieWind]

i watched it, there wasnt anything new except they had footage of an interview with one of the students who witnessed the two of them in the classroom shortly before the murder (i had not seen this before, but they did not focus on it like it was "breaking" so maybe it is not new)

they did repeat what erin burnett reported a few days ago (i commented on it upthread) that there was an incident between PC and CR in the classroom the day before the murder. im pretty sure they are still mistaken and they are referring to the witness who reported seeing the two of them on the actual day of the murder, just shortly before it happened actually.

(im referring to the story of a witness saying that PC got upset when the two were talking and CR did not notice that he was getting upset)

Did they say what it was that CR had said that made PC so upset? It had something to do with Tennessee, is that right?

 

[LambChop]

Did they say what it was that CR had said that made PC so upset? It had something to do with Tennessee, is that right?

I don't believe we know that, or even if the witness remembers specifically. What I do know is the standard question most people ask you when you relocate is, "What made you move here?" Not saying that is what she asked him but usually when someone wants to start a conversation that is the question they will ask. jmo

 

[liljim]

Did they say what it was that CR had said that made PC so upset? It had something to do with Tennessee, is that right?

yep, that is the witness im referring to.

someone please correct me if im wrong about any of the following;

a witness said PC was drawing in class not paying attention and CR asked him to stay after class. this is the day of the murder.

a witness that was in the room with them after class says CR brought up Tennessee (tennessee is all we know, nothing more specific or context) and PC got upset but CR didnt notice right away. this is the day of the murder.

we dont have any report or witness statement about PC and CR having a disagreement or upsetting conversation the day before the murder.

 

[Foxfire]

I was just going to ask if anyone had gotten to see that, and if there was anything new.

Not sure if NG and her expert pundits were just uninformed or did not want to get too graphic about this horrific crime. Imo, it was a combination of the two.
The Dr Drew show was even less informative, imo. Dr Drew, did characterize PC as a psychopath...
________________________

Imo, the Tennessee conversation between PC and CR may have been the trigger for PC's deviant act of violence, but imo, this had been pre-planned for some time..

 

[PrairieWind]

Not sure if NG and her expert pundits were just uninformed or did not want to get too graphic about this horrific crime. Imo, it was a combination of the two.
The Dr Drew show was even less informative, imo. Dr Drew, did characterize PC as a psychopath...
________________________

Imo, the Tennessee conversation between PC and CR may have been the trigger for PC's deviant act of violence, but imo, this had been pre-planned for some time..

I would tend to agree Foxfire. He clearly had the mask, box cutter, etc with him. So maybe the comment was a trigger, maybe not. I would tend to say no. Could just show his state of mind. He also could have just been sort of acting as well.

 

[PrairieWind]

I don't think we have enough info yet to decide who he "hated." Perhaps the police do by now. It could be all women/girls (the most likely, in my opinion), it could be white people, it could be teachers, authority, or it could be everyone in general. I do however, still think there is an aspect of this that was directed specifically to CR. I seem to recall very early on a student saying he did have a crush on her. She was an attractive young woman and very outgoing, so I could see how that could happen. I still wonder, and this is just speculation, that PC had difficultly around women, shy. But he did take a liking to CR. Perhaps he in some way, perhaps very minor, acted on it; ie said something to her, sent a text, drew a picture and gave to her. That she then said that was not appropriate, and he snapped after that. He couldnt handle her rejecting him, and took it out on her, but he left the note for all women/girls. Just my opinion and speculation of a possible motive.

 

[bourne]

I don't think we have enough info yet to decide who he "hated." Perhaps the police do by now. It could be all women/girls (the most likely, in my opinion), it could be white people, it could be teachers, authority, or it could be everyone in general. I do however, still think there is an aspect of this that was directed specifically to CR. I seem to recall very early on a student saying he did have a crush on her. She was an attractive young woman and very outgoing, so I could see how that could happen. I still wonder, and this is just speculation, that PC had difficultly around women, shy. But he did take a liking to CR. Perhaps he in some way, perhaps very minor, acted on it; ie said something to her, sent a text, drew a picture and gave to her. That she then said that was not appropriate, and he snapped after that. He couldnt handle her rejecting him, and took it out on her, but he left the note for all women/girls. Just my opinion and speculation of a possible motive.

Some posters said he had a gf back in TN. I've not read anything about her. What's her opinion about his murdering his teacher?

 

[matou]

Here is some info about his life back in Tennessee: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...oken-son-murdered-teacher-Colleen-Ritzer.html

 

[boston_baby]

The Salem with the witch hunts is still called Salem. The two places aren't the same.

It's not relevant (IMO) to the case, but they are the same, actually. What is today Danvers (as well as other local towns) are their own municipalities nowadays but were originally part of the Salem settlement. In fact, a large number of the people hanged for witchcraft lived in the Danvers historic district.

For example:
http://www.rebeccanurse.org/

 

[IzzyBlanche]

From a psych perspective, that depersonalizing terminology like "that girl" is a "distancing" mechanism commonly seen in a guilty party/offender/criminal.

I don't disagree with you. I had another thought about this phrasing too.

I grew up in a semi-southern state where women of all ages were commonly referred to as "girls" in everyday speech. In fact, I did it myself until I moved to a completely different part of the country where it wasn't common.

I remember a man referring to having seen an actress in person as "that girl that played on such-and-such TV show" even though by then said girl had to have been long past AARP membership age.

And even as recently as a couple of years ago someone there referred to me as a girl even though my girlhood ended at about the same time as the Mesozoic age.

All this makes me wonder if PC's choice of words resulted from him having grown up in the South. Then again, I agree that it is also distancing language.

I am fascinated by differences in language usages in various parts of the country so I thought this info might be interesting to WSers.

 

[bourne]

Here is some info about his life back in Tennessee: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...oken-son-murdered-teacher-Colleen-Ritzer.html

Thanks for this article!

"On Friday a former girlfriend of Chism expressed her shock at the teen's alleged slaying of Ritzer.

Chism dated 14-year-old Hannah Walker in his hometown of Clarkesville, Tennessee. Chism moved with his family to Danvers, Massachussetts in July this year.

As students from Danvers High School returned to class for the first time since the slaying of teacher Colleen Ritzer, Walker described the boy she knew.

'I know people are like, "You’re only in middle school, you’re too young for love." But I fell in love with him over a long period of time,' she told the Boston Globe.

'He lit me up, honestly.'

Walker says she and Chism became friends in sixth grade. They became close of the period of a year and walked home together every day. She would steal his hat so that he'd come looking for it and once, they danced in the rain after they got off the school bus. 'I remember it like it was yesterday,' she told the Boston Globe.

Walker says she was heartbroken when Chism left Tennessee.

According to neighbors, Chism was traumatized by the move and had maintained hope that his mother would change her mind even as she drove him and his sister north in her van.

The Boston Globe reports that Chism was well-known around his Clarkesville neighborhood, had a lot of friends and could often be found playing soccer or basketball or riding his skateboard.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...red-teacher-Colleen-Ritzer.html#ixzz2lqqU5V8n

~~~~~
BBM. Sounds like PC was popular and happy back in TN and that he loved his life there. He had a gf who reciprocated his affections, lots of friends, soccer, b-ball & skateboarding for fun.

His TN friends also indicate that PC was hoping his mom would relocate back to TN...

I think one reason he exploded in a horrifically violent manner against his teacher is that she represented someone of authority who controlled his happiness and his life -- his mother by proxy. He could not lash out at his own mom because for one thing, she was his mom, and most children, no matter what their parents did, love and obey their parents 100% unconditionally, and also perhaps he empathized with his mom on why she felt in her heart that the relocation from TN to MA was necessary. My thoughts are that she moved to get away from the abusive dad and PC understood that critical need.

Yet, IMO, PC felt conflicted. He loved his mom and wanted her happy, but he felt she took away his one and only happiness. She took him away from his loves -- his gf, his good friends, his sports teams, the environment he was happy in.

I think at the tender teenage years of 12-18 when children are maturing and turning into young adults, they do not realize that change and stresses happen throughout life, and that happiness is not equated with a single place or location, that we create our own happiness wherever we go and wherever we are.

Given that PC was "quiet and shy", he did not have the verbal capability of expressing his anger and frustration at the sudden changes and so keeping all the rage bottled up inside, secretly steaming and brewing, he struck out at the kindest, gentlest woman he found in the new environment -- his teacher, Colleen Ritzer.

I think he was rebelling and acting out in her class. Instead of paying attention to the math sessions, he was doodling. CR saw that and she confronted him, not in a bad way; she just wanted him to learn. I believe it's likely she had confronted him in the past about his -- for lack of a better word -- ineptitude and lack of focus in math.

PC likely took her *challenging* him as another effin authority figure trying to steal any joy he had in his life. So he laid out a plan to subdue her. He may also have secretly been infatuated with the teacher CR, and her challenging him and his perception that she was embarrassing and making him feel inferior in math while concurrently rejecting his romantic gestures might have caused his festering rage to coalesce to the violent rape/torture/murder of CR.

 

[colette]

Yes it's sad Chism had to move away from Tenn and his happy life. There has to be more underneath. You don't plan and implement a violent sexual murder just because Mommie made you move. There has to be some deep hatred in there.

 

[Foxfire]

I don't disagree with you. I had another thought about this phrasing too.

I grew up in a semi-southern state where women of all ages were commonly referred to as "girls" in everyday speech. In fact, I did it myself until I moved to a completely different part of the country where it wasn't common.

I remember a man referring to having seen an actress in person as "that girl that played on such-and-such TV show" even though by then said girl had to have been long past AARP membership age.

And even as recently as a couple of years ago someone there referred to me as a girl even though my girlhood ended at about the same time as the Mesozoic age.

All this makes me wonder if PC's choice of words resulted from him having grown up in the South. Then again, I agree that it is also distancing language.

I am fascinated by differences in language usages in various parts of the country so I thought this info might be interesting to WSers.

Izzy, there was a very popular TV show named 'That Girl' starring Marlo Thomas; Danny Thomas's daughter. Not just a southern thang, lol..

That Girl - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
That Girl is an American sitcom that ran on ABC from 1966 to 1971. It stars Marlo Thomas as the title character Ann Marie, an aspiring (but only sporadically employed) actress, who moves from her hometown of Brewster, New York to try to make it big in New York City.

Photos
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=that+girl+tv+show&qpvt=that+girl+tv+show&FORM=IGRE

 

[Foxfire]

Yes it's sad Chism had to move away from Tenn and his happy life. There has to be more underneath. You don't plan and implement a violent sexual murder just because Mommie made you move. There has to be some deep hatred in there.

Yes, colette, folks move to other states all across the US, yet do not violently and methodically pre-plan and carry out a sexual assault, then viciously murder their teachers as a result. PC's use of objects and posing of her body, while collecting a souvenir of his victim indicates the acting out of his deviant fantasies, imo. Imo, PC's internet forensics will reveal an escalated sadistic addiction.

The original divorce decree was over a decade ago, and according to msm was withdrawn by PC's parents. The parents lived at separate residences in different states. Imo, this is only part of the defense's strategy for leniency in sentencing; a red herring...

 

[bourne]

No one denied there was a lot of rage in PC. That is self-evident in the way he exploded on his teacher. However, his rage and whatever violent tendencies he had were *not* observed by his friends or gf in TN. The way they've described him in the media article makes him sound like a quiet, shy, gentle lamb...So either PC hid his violence well OR he was so happy in TN he did not need to be violent. Pick your choice.

As I said, I personally believe the volatile temper and rage against his mother were seething inside PC for years. Read that there was some type of custodial agreement with the dad who's been absent the past few years in PC's life, wherein the dad since PC was two years of age, needed to have *supervised* visits with PC. That in and of itself suggests that PC was abused in some way by his dad. Whether it was physical, emotional, verbal or sexual, we don't know.

However, abuse doesn't excuse PC's rape of his teacher nor his murderous behaviors. What I'm saying is that PC lashed out at the only person he could -- his female teacher whom he termed a mere "girl" -- for the simple fact that she was a *female = weaker sex*, *available* AND *she was KIND*.

Haven't you heard that the people who are the kindest are the first people to be demeaned and bullied and victimized? It's because many people believe kind people are doormats, that they won't dare to strike back. That is a huge reason why this particular sweet teacher CR was attacked by PC.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Izzy, there was a very popular TV show named 'That Girl' starring Marlo Thomas; Danny Thomas's daughter. Not just a southern thang, lol..

That Girl - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
That Girl is an American sitcom that ran on ABC from 1966 to 1971. It stars Marlo Thomas as the title character Ann Marie, an aspiring (but only sporadically employed) actress, who moves from her hometown of Brewster, New York to try to make it big in New York City.

Photos
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=that+girl+tv+show&qpvt=that+girl+tv+show&FORM=IGRE

I WATCHED "That Girl"! And not in reruns! :floorlaugh:

 

[Foxfire]

I WATCHED "That Girl"! And not in reruns! :floorlaugh:

Me too, Izzy.. in the south, with aluminum foiled rabbit ear antenas, and on a black & white TV... :floorlaugh:

 

[Foxfire]

No one denied there was a lot of rage in PC. That is self-evident in the way he exploded on his teacher. However, his rage and whatever violent tendencies he had were *not* observed by his friends or gf in TN. The way they've described him in the media article makes him sound like a quiet, shy, gentle lamb...So either PC hid his violence well OR he was so happy in TN he did not need to be violent. Pick your choice.

As I said, I personally believe the volatile temper and rage against his mother were seething inside PC for years. Read that there was some type of custodial agreement with the dad who's been absent the past few years in PC's life, wherein the dad since PC was two years of age, needed to have *supervised* visits with PC. That in and of itself suggests that PC was abused in some way by his dad. Whether it was physical, emotional, verbal or sexual, we don't know.

However, abuse doesn't excuse PC's rape of his teacher nor his murderous behaviors. What I'm saying is that PC lashed out at the only person he could -- his female teacher whom he termed a mere "girl" -- for the simple fact that she was a *female = weaker sex*, *available* AND *she was KIND*.

Haven't you heard that the people who are the kindest are the first people to be demeaned and bullied and victimized? It's because many people believe kind people are doormats, that they won't dare to strike back. That is a huge reason why this particular sweet teacher CR was attacked by PC.

"There is no one who knows me – or who has ever known me – who knows anything about me, really... They're going to tell you something that does not line up with anything I tell you because I'm two different people basically." Quote by Israel Keyes..