GUILTY MA - Colleen Ritzer, 24, brutally murdered, Danvers, 22 Oct 2013 #1

[Skigirl]

Yeah but I would put the question more to the administration why they are hiring crews that are Spanish speaking only and don't have in their contract that there must be english-speaking folks or Danny, the go between, could not speak Spanish. Major fail in my opinion. Unexcusable oversight :moo :

Blue vs blood ..really. ullhair:

Even if they couldn't easily communicate in English or Spanish, why didn't lazy bones get off his behind and walk to the bathroom in question to see what the Spanish-speaking crewmember thought was serious enough to bring to his attention?????

 

[Elainera]

Even if they couldn't easily communicate in English or Spanish, why didn't lazy bones get off his behind and walk to the bathroom in question to see what the Spanish-speaking crewmember thought was serious enough to bring to his attention?????

I don't think Chuck (or was it Danny?) picked up on the seriousness of the situation (and going by the testimony of the cleaning person he did not seem to have realized it either at that moment), he (mis)understood there was something 'blue' on the bathroom floor that needed to be hosed down, so he gave the cleaner a hose and the key to the spigot. Case closed (for him).

 

[Skigirl]

I followed this as a news story, before trial, and haven't read up since trial began. The last few pages of posts sound worrisome. Please tell me that the investigation etc. wasn't compromised enough to allow her killer to walk?

Just my opinion, but abso-friggin-lutely not, thank goodness. Yes, the first crime scene itself was compromised, but there is excellent video evidence that is going to be the final 1,000 nails in the coffin for Philip Chism. I just can't see how a juror can see the video of him glancing around for Colleen, stepping back into her classroom, coming back out with a hood on his head, carrying gloves, putting them on as he follows her into the bathroom, and then coming out of the bathroom with her clothes in his bloody hands as anything but someone guilty of a premeditated murder. Thank god for those cameras or I could have seen reasonable doubt or a lesser charge. This crime is so horrible.

 

[Skigirl]

seems he made little to no effort to try to get away with crime once he had taken her body to the woods, he left his school ID in the woods near her body along with his backpack, odd that he went to all the trouble to take her body outside and then leave his ID behind, he could have easily left her in bathroom, I do think he has mental health issues, but am unsure if they mean he was insane at time of crime,

I'm not quite sure I agree. He hid her body in the woods and then crouched in the bushes and changed his clothes then went to a movie, then did god-knows-what, and then went wandering down a road not near his house by himself after midnight, which was many hours after the crime. It was only after he was stopped by police and questioned that he did or said anything to indicate he'd murdered someone, and that was only after the bloody knife was found in his wallet. I think he was extremely ineffective at covering up his crime, but I don't think it was a lack of effort.

 

[Mindmatters]

Airway had leaves blocking it... from the amount of blood in the woods and from this I am thinking she was still alive when she was thrown in the woods

That is such a horrifying thought, particularly in light of what he clearly did with the tree branch--vile little ba$tard that he is. I really hope you are wrong about that atthelake.

The leaves and dirt don't worry me too much as they could have gotten there from him doing whatever he was doing to cover her body or, god forbid, he purposely put the debris in her mouth; however, what is alarming is tweets that say Forensic expert King is shown "a photo of blood pooled under Ritzer when her body was rolled over." And while it is not clear how much "pooled" means, to me it suggests bleeding-- I pray my interpretation is wrong.

 

[Skigirl]

That is such a horrifying thought, particularly in light of what he clearly did with the tree branch--vile little ba$tard that he is. I really hope you are wrong about that atthelake.

The leaves and dirt don't worry me too much as they could have gotten there from him doing whatever he was doing to cover her body or, god forbid, he purposely put the debris in her mouth; however, what is alarming is tweets that say Forensic expert King is shown "a photo of blood pooled under Ritzer when her body was rolled over." And while it is not clear how much "pooled" means, to me it suggests bleeding-- I pray my interpretation is wrong.

I've been thinking about it, and given that one of the charges had to do with raping her with the tree branch, I think they must believe she was alive at that point, otherwise I think it would be defilement of a corpse (of course I am often wrong about points of law... )

 

[AnaTeresa]

I've been thinking about it, and given that one of the charges had to do with raping her with the tree branch, I think they must believe she was alive at that point, otherwise I think it would be defilement of a corpse (of course I am often wrong about points of law... )

No, that's right. You can't rape someone if they are dead. Anything sexual done to a corpse would be some sort of corpse defilement charge.

This case is just too much sometimes.

 

[Mindmatters]

No, that's right. You can't rape someone if they are dead. Anything sexual done to a corpse would be some sort of corpse defilement charge.

This case is just too much sometimes.

Thanks for the clarification AnaTeresa. I haven't been following this case very long but I just thought the wording was something specific to way MA worded/designated their rape laws, i.e., they believe a deceased person can be "raped". Living in Texas I just chalked it up to a regional/statutory difference.

Un-freaking-believable!!! So glad he has been charged as an adult. IMO he is a sadist that premeditated the rape, tortue and killing of his teacher .

 

[Mindmatters]

Just wondering if this has been posted and/or discussed.

"Mass. Teacher Slaying Suspect in Court on Assault Charge" http://www.cbsnews.com/news/massachusetts-teen-accused-of-killing-teacher-in-court-for-beating-case/

excerpt from the above cited article:

"A Massachusetts teenager charged with killing his teacher last year after following her into a bathroom similarly followed a worker at a youth detention facility into a locker room last month before choking and beating her, prosecutors said Wednesday.

Philip Chism, 15, made sure he wasn't being watched, took off his footwear to muffle his footsteps, then crouched down as he made his way along a corridor before following the 29-year-old woman into the locker room at Metro Youth Services facility in Boston on June 2,..."

This guy is a straight-up Predator. <snipped by me>.

 

[Skigirl]

Thanks for the clarification AnaTeresa. I haven't been following this case very long but I just thought the wording was something specific to way MA worded/designated their rape laws, i.e., they believe a deceased person can be "raped". Living in Texas I just chalked it up to a regional/statutory difference.

Un-freaking-believable!!! So glad he has been charged as an adult. IMO he is a sadist that premeditated the rape, tortue and killing of his teacher .

Yeah, unfortunately, in teens/kids/people of any age who commit a crime like this, I just cannot imagine how rehabilitation would be possible. It's not like shoplifting. I don't think you could medicate away this type of violence and sadism. I would bet that there is a giant trove of fetish somewhere on a computer in their household. I can't believe that he hasn't had these sorts of fantasies for a long, long time. Ick, just thinking of it makes me want to take a shower.

 

[AnaTeresa]

Just wondering if this has been posted and/or discussed.

"Mass. Teacher Slaying Suspect in Court on Assault Charge" http://www.cbsnews.com/news/massachusetts-teen-accused-of-killing-teacher-in-court-for-beating-case/

excerpt from the above cited article:

"A Massachusetts teenager charged with killing his teacher last year after following her into a bathroom similarly followed a worker at a youth detention facility into a locker room last month before choking and beating her, prosecutors said Wednesday.

Philip Chism, 15, made sure he wasn't being watched, took off his footwear to muffle his footsteps, then crouched down as he made his way along a corridor before following the 29-year-old woman into the locker room at Metro Youth Services facility in Boston on June 2,..."

This guy is a straight-up Predator. <snipped by me>.

I think it has upthread.

I agree with you Skigirl - I don't believe there is any way to rehabilitate him.

 

[Skigirl]

Just wondering if this has been posted and/or discussed.

"Mass. Teacher Slaying Suspect in Court on Assault Charge" http://www.cbsnews.com/news/massachusetts-teen-accused-of-killing-teacher-in-court-for-beating-case/

excerpt from the above cited article:

"A Massachusetts teenager charged with killing his teacher last year after following her into a bathroom similarly followed a worker at a youth detention facility into a locker room last month before choking and beating her, prosecutors said Wednesday.

Philip Chism, 15, made sure he wasn't being watched, took off his footwear to muffle his footsteps, then crouched down as he made his way along a corridor before following the 29-year-old woman into the locker room at Metro Youth Services facility in Boston on June 2,..."

This guy is a straight-up Predator. <snipped by me>.

I had seen an attack on a prison worker mentioned earlier in the thread but I haven't been following this case between the arrest and trial and did not know how serious the prison attack was. I usually feel that most violent non-sexual crimes could be committed by any normal person, given the right set of stressors, and context, and hellish convergence of circumstances. But the ones this guy has been involved in... no. He's sick and unsalvageable.

 

[Elainera]

The blood pool underneath Colleen might have come from the rape with the tree branch? He must have been very violent and blood spilled out from the abdominal cavity. I think it would have run out even if she was already dead, blood doesn't clot that quickly. Sorry for the disturbing images

Poor Colleen :tears:. I was trying to imagine her last moments. The surprise when he came towards her, the realization of what he was about to do, the shock, the fear, panic ... looking into his cold eyes. I hope he killed her first, and then did all the other stuff. I hope he cut the arteries too, that way she would have been out very quickly.

The pain her parents must be going through is something I can't even imagine ...

 

[atthelake]

Just wondering if this has been posted and/or discussed.

"Mass. Teacher Slaying Suspect in Court on Assault Charge" http://www.cbsnews.com/news/massachusetts-teen-accused-of-killing-teacher-in-court-for-beating-case/

excerpt from the above cited article:

"A Massachusetts teenager charged with killing his teacher last year after following her into a bathroom similarly followed a worker at a youth detention facility into a locker room last month before choking and beating her, prosecutors said Wednesday.

Philip Chism, 15, made sure he wasn't being watched, took off his footwear to muffle his footsteps, then crouched down as he made his way along a corridor before following the 29-year-old woman into the locker room at Metro Youth Services facility in Boston on June 2,..."

This guy is a straight-up Predator. <snipped by me>.

I had not seen tbis tx . So this happened in 2004 after he was incarcerated for this charge. Interesting as at that time he also said he did not want to appear in court ..seems to be a trend with him

 

[atthelake]

Yeah, unfortunately, in teens/kids/people of any age who commit a crime like this, I just cannot imagine how rehabilitation would be possible. It's not like shoplifting. I don't think you could medicate away this type of violence and sadism. I would bet that there is a giant trove of fetish somewhere on a computer in their household. I can't believe that he hasn't had these sorts of fantasies for a long, long time. Ick, just thinking of it makes me want to take a shower.

Some folks mailboxes are full

 

[atthelake]

The blood pool underneath Colleen might have come from the rape with the tree branch? He must have been very violent and blood spilled out from the abdominal cavity. I think it would have run out even if she was already dead, blood doesn't clot that quickly. Sorry for the disturbing images

Poor Colleen :tears:. I was trying to imagine her last moments. The surprise when he came towards her, the realization of what he was about to do, the shock, the fear, panic ... looking into his cold eyes. I hope he killed her first, and then did all the other stuff. I hope he cut the arteries too, that way she would have been out very quickly.

The pain her parents must be going through is something I can't even imagine ...

Brace yourself then for autopsy .. with so much blood... on the leaves ..and in a pool.. She was alive :banghead: raying:

I can't fathom her parents and loved ones listening to this. This case is hitting me hard.....

 

[LinasK]

Smh ... People supervising folks that only speak Spanish should know the language. Smh. That should be a prerequisite for the position :moo:

Or else within the school contract they should ensure that at least as supervisor can speak English :moo:

I wonder who else was let go due to this

I know. Obviously it did need cleaning up eventually, but since Pimental said it looked like a slaughterhouse, it didn't dawn on them that it could be a crime scene??? What did he think, that some girl had her period and bled all over the floor??:banghead::banghead:

 

[LinasK]

I am still reading through ...I didn't think it could be any worse but it is... They knew it was a crime scene and they are sending janitors to clean it up .. unbelievable

I am curious though, how does one clean up woods? Do you actually clean blood off leaves???

 

[jacct]

I am curious though, how does one clean up woods? Do you actually clean blood off leaves???

The crime scene cleanup witness said they put bloody leaves in a bio bag, then raked other leaves over the location to return the scene to it's original state.

 

[LinasK]

I agree - the cleaning service guy at least paused, and went to inform the building supervisor (or whatever Danny and Chuck were) to let him know there's a situation - so he hands him a hose? Really?
Anything that was all over that bathroom and needed to be hosed down, wouldn't that warrant a look? Even if he thought it was 'blue'. Ridiculous, IMO

I believe no one knew yet that the teacher was even missing, let alone murdered. Not that it's any excuse. The bathroom is covered in blood, get up a check what's up, don't just hand him a hose, and a key for the spigot - go see why he felt the need to tell you.

Yeah, but obviously Pimental didn't convey it strongly enough how much blood there was. He just accepted the hose and key instead of trying to urge the supervisor to come see.