GUILTY MA - Colleen Ritzer, 24, brutally murdered, Danvers, 22 Oct 2013 #2

[Skigirl]

Regan asked for a pre-sentencing hearing to review options for probation before the sentencing. Judge Lowy scheduled the pre-sentencing hearing for 12-22 at 10:30am EST.

Anyone know what happens at a pre-sentencing hearing in this situation? Is the interval between now and his parole eligibility at issue? (I thought it was 15 years). Are other things at issue, like the conditions of his parole?

 

[Elainera]

I personally don't like the word 'evil'. It seems like a swear word, has no place in modern psychology or court proceedings imo.

He's mentally ill, obviously, and dangerous. imo

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I don't know why the line for 'evil' would be drawn at any particular age. Evil people become evil at some point. I don't ascribe to the idea that all children are innocent and good unless something bad happens to them.

For me Evil is something that comes from Adults not kids. I feel like kids when they do things like this are damaged.

It may not make sense to anyone else but that is how I see it.

 

[Skigirl]

I personally don't like the word 'evil'. It seems like a swear word, has no place in modern psychology or court proceedings imo.

He's mentally ill, obviously, and dangerous. imo

Modern psychologists, neuroscientists, and philosophers consider 'evil' to be one of the most important and puzzling human problems.

 

[katydid23]

For me Evil is something that comes from Adults not kids. I feel like kids when they do things like this are damaged.

It may not make sense to anyone else but that is how I see it.

I don't see 14 yr olds as being little children. He was becoming a young man. He was a teenager. Not a child. JMO

And when I say evil, I mean his actions were truly evil. I don't think he was abused. His defense attorneys scoured everywhere looking for any kind of abuse. They found nothing. He has a loving supportive family.

I think he probably watched computer , and got his evil ideas that way. JMo But having sex with your math teacher that you just brutally slaughtered, and raping her with a tree branch in the woods, then going to the movies with friends= EVIL actions. JMO

 

[katydid23]

I personally don't like the word 'evil'. It seems like a swear word, has no place in modern psychology or court proceedings imo.

He's mentally ill, obviously, and dangerous. imo

I don't know any other word to describe his horrid actions. EVIL fits, imo.

 

[pappa rob]

I don't think you can commit a crime like this (or really any sexually violent crime) without being "sick" or "mentally ill" -- something is obviously wrong with him. I do not think it is necessary for him to have been abused and there was absolutely no evidence of that that I know of -- and I would bet that the prosecutor tried very, very hard to find it. I do not think 'evil' and 'mentally ill' are mutually exclusive. I think he has the same kind of evil that Alexandra Zapp's killer had. The kind that makes him dangerous and not fit for release.

Your mail is full again Skigirl.

 

[TupeloMz]

Evil fits. And evil is real..very real. IMO

 

[jacct]

Anyone know what happens at a pre-sentencing hearing in this situation? Is the interval between now and his parole eligibility at issue? (I thought it was 15 years). Are other things at issue, like the conditions of his parole?

He can get parole from 15 to 25 years. I think the defense wants to argue that he should be eligible for parole in 15 years and the prosecution will want 25 years. Since he was found guilty of multiple charges I don't know if that increases the time until he can be paroled or if the juvenile sentencing guidelines in MA will keep his maximum sentence between 15 to 25 years.

Then there is his second attempted murder trial to consider. If he is found guilty on that charge and he is already sentenced to life with parole in 25 years, can the parole time be increased? Maybe AnaTeresa can answer.

 

[katydid23]

He can get parole from 15 to 25 years. I think the defense wants to argue that he should be eligible for parole in 15 years and the prosecution will want 25 years. Since he was found guilty of multiple charges I don't know if that increases the time until he can be paroled or if the juvenile sentencing guidelines in MA will keep his maximum sentence between 15 to 25 years.

Then there is his second attempted murder trial to consider. If he is found guilty on that charge and he is already sentenced to life with parole in 25 years, can the parole time be increased? Maybe AnaTeresa can answer.

That is what I am counting on---the next trial. I hope that closes down his options of being released when he is 30 or 31.

 

[Skigirl]

Your mail is full again Skigirl.

(I've now deleted or downloaded 50 of my most favorite messages. Sorry for all the reports on my email, people.)

 

[Skigirl]

I don't see 14 yr olds as being little children. He was becoming a young man. He was a teenager. Not a child. JMO

And when I say evil, I mean his actions were truly evil. I don't think he was abused. His defense attorneys scoured everywhere looking for any kind of abuse. They found nothing. He has a loving supportive family.

I think he probably watched computer , and got his evil ideas that way. JMo But having sex with your math teacher that you just brutally slaughtered, and raping her with a tree branch in the woods, then going to the movies with friends= EVIL actions. JMO

You are exaggerating. He went to the movies alone. ;-)

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

You are exaggerating. He went to the movies alone. ;-)

IT would not have to be a family member who abused him. I am not saying it is a fact.. Just a possibility.
14 years old is still a kid. They don't have adult brains yet.
I don't think it gives him a pass at all..

I don't see evil like that. For me it is more like The man who kept the girls in the house for years or bundy who was completely charming and "normal" yet evil.

To me I see a disturbed child who acted in a heinous way.

 

[trixandhoney]

I feel sorry for the jurors, Colleen's parents, and PC's mom. What a horrific ordeal they've all been through; I'm sure none of them will ever be the same.
Following this case so closely has given me a tremendous amount of respect and admiration for our legal system. I know there are lots of people who believe in an "eye for an eye" or that at the very least, that PC should be locked away and never see the light of day. But the care that our justice system takes in order to provide every person accused of a crime with a fair trial is really what keeps us human and civilized. IMO, anyway.
With that being said - since PC was tried as an adult, does that mean he'll be incarcerated with adults? If not, will they move him when he turns 18?
ETA: And since he has to be eligible for parole, will he be given access to mental health care in hopes of successful rehabilitation?

 

[trixandhoney]

I feel sorry for the jurors, Colleen's parents, and PC's mom. What a horrific ordeal they've all been through; I'm sure none of them will ever be the same.
Following this case so closely has given me a tremendous amount of respect and admiration for our legal system. I know there are lots of people who believe in an "eye for an eye" or that at the very least, that PC should be locked away and never see the light of day. But the care that our justice system takes in order to provide every person accused of a crime with a fair trial is really what keeps us human and civilized. IMO, anyway.
With that being said - since PC was tried as an adult, does that mean he'll be incarcerated with adults? If not, will they move him when he turns 18?
ETA: And since he has to be eligible for parole, will he be given access to mental health care in hopes of successful rehabilitation?

Googled my questions.

"Now 16 years old, Chism will be held in a juvenile facility until he turns 18, then be transferred to an adult facility. There is a chance that with his severe mental health issues, he could still be sent to Bridgewater State Hospital, similar to other mentally ill killers."

http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma...life-prison/90fYL9lX6ZyGqRn355K6TP/story.html

 

[Skigirl]

I feel sorry for the jurors, Colleen's parents, and PC's mom. What a horrific ordeal they've all been through; I'm sure none of them will ever be the same.
Following this case so closely has given me a tremendous amount of respect and admiration for our legal system. I know there are lots of people who believe in an "eye for an eye" or that at the very least, that PC should be locked away and never see the light of day. But the care that our justice system takes in order to provide every person accused of a crime with a fair trial is really what keeps us human and civilized. IMO, anyway.
With that being said - since PC was tried as an adult, does that mean he'll be incarcerated with adults? If not, will they move him when he turns 18?
ETA: And since he has to be eligible for parole, will he be given access to mental health care in hopes of successful rehabilitation?

I agree with you that it is a very civilized and fair process and I wouldn't want our system to operate any other way. I only wish that all defendants got a capable defense and I am not convinced that we provide enough resources to public defenders to ensure that -- in this case I do believe his defense was adequate even though Regan didn't wow me.

As to mental health care, I think that it really depends on whether he is diagnosed with anything treatable. I think if he has symptoms of psychosis he will receive some treatment, especially anti-psychotic meds. I have my doubts what is truly wrong with him is treatable enough to ever make him safe for release, even if he is released by a parole board.

My limited understanding is that in most states, juvenile offenders are usually housed with juveniles until they turn 18 and then are transferred. If i recall, Michael Skakel (in his 40s at the time) wanted to be tried as a juvenile and was denied, in part, because there was no juvenile facility in CT that could hold him, even though he was a juvenile at the time of the original crime: http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=94243&page=1

I'd be interested in hearing what AnaTeresa has to say about mental health care in prison and in what type of facility Chism might find himself.

 

[trixandhoney]

Interesting that the author refers to his "severe mental health issues" even though the jury did not find him insane.

 

[Skigirl]

Interesting that the author refers to his "severe mental health issues" even though the jury did not find him insane.

Well, he was diagnosed with a psychotic episode as the trial was starting. One day early in the trial he claimed to be so psychotic that he was afraid he'd hurt someone if he was forced to appear in court. When the judge made it clear that he could waive his right to be present during the trial, but that the trial wouldn't stop, he suddenly got a lot less psychotic (hmmm). But in any case, he could be totally mentally ill now and not have been mentally ill at the time of the crime.

 

[trixandhoney]

I hadn't heard details of his attack on the other woman:

BOSTON (CBS/AP) — A Massachusetts teenager charged with killing his teacher last year after following her into a bathroom similarly followed a worker at a youth detention facility into a locker room last month before choking and beating her, prosecutors said Wednesday.

Philip Chism, 15, made sure he wasn’t being watched, took off his footwear to muffle his footsteps, then crouched down as he made his way along a corridor before following the 29-year-old woman into the locker room at Metro Youth Services facility in Boston on June 2, prosecutor Mark Zanini told a judge in Boston Juvenile Court.

Chism, with a pencil in his hand, pushed the woman against the wall in the bathroom, choked her, and then hit her in the head with his fists, he said.
“The victim was trying to scream but it was ineffective because her airway was closed by virtue of the defendant’s strangling her,” Zanini said.

After getting Chism’s hand off her neck, she screamed and other facility workers pulled Chism away from her, Zanini said.

She suffered injuries to her face, jaw, neck and back, and got a hole in the back of her shirt that was the same size as a pencil, which was found on the floor, Zanini said.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2014/07/...rs-teacher-murder-in-court-on-assault-charge/

 

[katydid23]

I hadn't heard details of his attack on the other woman:

BOSTON (CBS/AP) — A Massachusetts teenager charged with killing his teacher last year after following her into a bathroom similarly followed a worker at a youth detention facility into a locker room last month before choking and beating her, prosecutors said Wednesday.

Philip Chism, 15, made sure he wasn’t being watched, took off his footwear to muffle his footsteps, then crouched down as he made his way along a corridor before following the 29-year-old woman into the locker room at Metro Youth Services facility in Boston on June 2, prosecutor Mark Zanini told a judge in Boston Juvenile Court.

Chism, with a pencil in his hand, pushed the woman against the wall in the bathroom, choked her, and then hit her in the head with his fists, he said.
“The victim was trying to scream but it was ineffective because her airway was closed by virtue of the defendant’s strangling her,” Zanini said.

After getting Chism’s hand off her neck, she screamed and other facility workers pulled Chism away from her, Zanini said.

She suffered injuries to her face, jaw, neck and back, and got a hole in the back of her shirt that was the same size as a pencil, which was found on the floor, Zanini said.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2014/07/...rs-teacher-murder-in-court-on-assault-charge/

wow. He was trying to kill her too.