MA MA - New Bedford, "Popes Island Jane Doe", WhtFem 30-45, UP7253, emerald ring from Belarus, Oct'96

[ks-ch]

@Al Ka @Bit of hope @Melt71
Thank you for your replies. I realised that I can look it up in the web archive. All of you had been right, the case was never listed on the DNA Doe website. I think, we should suggest it anyway and this is what I am going to do in the next couple of minutes.

 

[djanga]

@Al Ka @Bit of hope @Melt71
Thank you for your replies. I realised that I can look it up in the web archive. All of you had been right, the case was never listed on the DNA Doe website. I think, we should suggest it anyway and this is what I am going to do in the next couple of minutes.

I think the DNA Doe Project only accepts cases when they are contacted directly by LEs, I think they recommend to contact local LE first. There is a phone number for the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner on her Doe Network page.
However, if she is indeed Belarusian it will be impossible to identify her with forensic genealogy, as far as I know it is not allowed to use foreign companies for genetic testing in this part of Europe.

 

[Alleykins]

I think forensic genealogy may still work for this case. She may have a close relative in the US, or one close enough that she could be ID'd, even if she wasn't from here.

 

[MadMcGoo]

@othram this might be a challenging one, but I agree that it’s not entirely impossible.

 

[ks-ch]

I think forensic genealo may still work for this case. She may have a close relative in the US, or one close enough that she could be ID'd, even if she wasn't from here.

Not as easy as in case with someone from the Americas, but there is a small chance. Eastern Europeans don’t spend too much money on genetic tests because a 100$ kit can easily be a monthly wage in the hinterlands... moreover, you have to speak English and be aware of the true crime society and genetic genealogy to be able to upload your data to Gedmatch. This being said, the circumstances narrow down a potential circle of matches. Her parents are probably dead given her age. Maybe, there are some living siblings, but there is no guarantee that they comply with the above conditions. To sum up, the case of this Jane Doe makes me very sad, especially because we are fellow ex-USSR countrymen. I’ve tried looking into missing persons that match her description in Russian, but in vain. @othram pleeease, read this. What do you think about this case? I am sure that I am not a sole individual speaking Russian here on Websleuths (which is an umbrella language for all ex-ussr countries), we could potentially help to expand the search if needed.

 

[othram]

Not as easy as in case with someone from the Americas, but there is a small chance. Eastern Europeans don’t spend too much money on genetic tests because a 100$ kit can easily be a monthly wage in the hinterlands... moreover, you have to speak English and be aware of the true crime society and genetic genealogy to be able to upload your data to Gedmatch. This being said, the circumstances narrow down a potential circle of matches. Her parents are probably dead given her age. Maybe, there are some living siblings, but there is no guarantee that they comply with the above conditions. To sum up, the case of this Jane Doe makes me very sad, especially because we are fellow ex-USSR countrymen. I’ve tried looking into missing persons that match her description in Russian, but in vain. @othram pleeease, read this. What do you think about this case? I am sure that I am not a sole individual speaking Russian here on Websleuths (which is an umbrella language for all ex-ussr countries), we could potentially help to expand the search if needed.

We would love to help. Will try to reach out. Genealogy is not the only way to move a case forward. Perhaps if there are candidates or even distant candidate relatives, we can see if they match. Might even be something we could use KinSNP for: Othram - Justice Through Genomics.

 

[ks-ch]

We would love to help. Will try to reach out

What do I say? Real angels exist and they are called Othram <3

 

[othram]

What do I say? Real angels exist and they are called Othram <3

Well thank you, but no promises until we talk to LE to determine if there is suitable evidence, etc.

 

[djanga]

Not as easy as in case with someone from the Americas, but there is a small chance. Eastern Europeans don’t spend too much money on genetic tests because a 100$ kit can easily be a monthly wage in the hinterlands... moreover, you have to speak English and be aware of the true crime society and genetic genealogy to be able to upload your data to Gedmatch. This being said, the circumstances narrow down a potential circle of matches. Her parents are probably dead given her age. Maybe, there are some living siblings, but there is no guarantee that they comply with the above conditions. To sum up, the case of this Jane Doe makes me very sad, especially because we are fellow ex-USSR countrymen. I’ve tried looking into missing persons that match her description in Russian, but in vain. @othram pleeease, read this. What do you think about this case? I am sure that I am not a sole individual speaking Russian here on Websleuths (which is an umbrella language for all ex-ussr countries), we could potentially help to expand the search if needed.

I am Eastern European, as far as I know 23andme, Ancestry are not allowed here. There are local genetic companies, my friend recently bought a genetic kit and it cost her around 250-300$, but I believe there are some cheaper kits too. As it is so expensive it is not very popular.

Actually I believe that the main reason why those foreign tests are not allowed is that shipping of biological material including saliva is not allowed to destinations outside of the country... But I don’t know if in Belarus it is the same, I bet it is.

 

[Susikatze]

And just judging from her "unshaved legs" and the fact that she wore a ring made in Belarus that she was Belorussian is a bit far fetched... no idea where the "unshaved"="European" stuff comes from... ive met plenty of Belorussians, Ukrainians and Russians in my life and I am Central European as well and we all shave our legs!
It is just so wrong. The recently identified Sumter Jane Doe was also believed to be European because of her "unshaved legs"... turned out she was a dyed in the wool Coloradian!

And the ring... well, I wear my husbands grandmas wedding ring. It was made in the early 1950s in St Petersburg, Russia. But that does not make me Russian, nor my husband or his family Russian.

 

[Susikatze]

And because it has come up in this thread a lot, I can say with absolute certainty that this woman was not Orthodox Jewish! I am an Orthodox Jew and we do dress in a specific dresscode, even the more liberal among us and there is absolutely nothing about the UID that would even remotely adhere to our standards.

Orthodox Christian, maybe, do not know. But certainly not Jewish.

 

[Bit of hope]

And just judging from her "unshaved legs" and the fact that she wore a ring made in Belarus that she was Belorussian is a bit far fetched... no idea where the "unshaved"="European" stuff comes from... ive met plenty of Belorussians, Ukrainians and Russians in my life and I am Central European as well and we all shave our legs!
It is just so wrong. The recently identified Sumter Jane Doe was also believed to be European because of her "unshaved legs"... turned out she was a dyed in the wool Coloradian!

And the ring... well, I wear my husbands grandmas wedding ring. It was made in the early 1950s in St Petersburg, Russia. But that does not make me Russian, nor my husband or his family Russian.

We had that about the non shaved legs a couple of times = European. Somehow it makes me laugh....Actually it's freaking ridiculous.....

 

[djanga]

And just judging from her "unshaved legs" and the fact that she wore a ring made in Belarus that she was Belorussian is a bit far fetched... no idea where the "unshaved"="European" stuff comes from... ive met plenty of Belorussians, Ukrainians and Russians in my life and I am Central European as well and we all shave our legs!
It is just so wrong. The recently identified Sumter Jane Doe was also believed to be European because of her "unshaved legs"... turned out she was a dyed in the wool Coloradian!

And the ring... well, I wear my husbands grandmas wedding ring. It was made in the early 1950s in St Petersburg, Russia. But that does not make me Russian, nor my husband or his family Russian.

I agree with you, unshaved legs sounds as a very strange reason to consider her to be outside of the USA and I agree that the ring can be somebody's gift. The only thing which make me think she could have been from Eastern Europe is her "low-quality dental work which appeared to be performed outside the United States". But indeed she could be American, we saw plenty of cases when an unidentified person was considered to be outside of the USA but it turned out they were Americans (Robin Green, Pamela Buckley).

 

[Susikatze]

And "low quality dental work" can very well also be done in the USA, especially if someone does not have proper dental insurance. In contrast, actually the standard of dental work in many Eastern European countries is pretty good. That is not a rule out at all, unless it is a specific technique or materials that are not used in the USA, but that does not seem to be the case, just "low quality".

I agree with you, unshaved legs sounds as a very strange reason to consider her to be outside of the USA and I agree that the ring can be somebody's gift. The only thing which make me think she could have been from Eastern Europe is her "low-quality dental work which appeared to be performed outside the United States". But indeed she could be American, we saw plenty of cases when an unidentified person was considered to be outside of the USA but it turned out they were Americans (Robin Green, Pamela Buckley).

 

[ks-ch]

We had that about the non shaved legs a couple of times = European. Somehow it makes me laugh....Actually it's freaking ridiculous.....

Yeah, unshaven legs = European is a funny assumption. Maybe back in the 80s or 90s it was a thing, but I cannot verify this statement because I was way too young back then to pay attention to shaving trends in Europe However, the way she dressed under her actual clothes, well, looks really Eastern European to me. I mean, is this a thing to wear multiple layers of clothing in such a specific way? I mean, culturally. Pantyhose, a turtleneck underneath, plus some cotton socks? This is exactly the way my grandma taught me to dress in order “not to freeze your kidneys off” (even if it is +15 Celsius) outside.

 

[Bit of hope]

Yeah, unshaven legs = European is a funny assumption. Maybe back in the 80s or 90s it was a thing, but I cannot verify this statement because I was way too young back then to pay attention to shaving trends in Europe However, the way she dressed under her actual clothes, well, looks really Eastern European to me. I mean, is this a thing to wear multiple layers of clothing in such a specific way? I mean, culturally. Pantyhose, a turtleneck underneath, plus some cotton socks? This is exactly the way my grandma taught me to dress in order “not to freeze your kidneys off” (even if it is +15 Celsius) outside.

The way she dressed does sound to me she was protecting herself against the cold, nothing complicated. I think it's possible she was on a boat/on the water and that's why she put on some extra layers.

Temperatures for New Bedford Weather averages New Bedford, Massachusetts October has an average 63F (17,2 C)high, 37F (2,8 C) low.

 

[Alleykins]

It's really cold out on the northern Atlantic. I took the ferry from Maine to Nova Scotia one July, and wished I brought my winter coat. It was freezing on deck, even in the middle of summer.

 

[djanga]

The way she dressed does sound to me she was protecting herself against the cold, nothing complicated. I think it's possible she was on a boat/on the water and that's why she put on some extra layers.

Temperatures for New Bedford Weather averages New Bedford, Massachusetts October has an average 63F (17,2 C)high, 37F (2,8 C) low.

I was thinking the same, that she could have been on a boat. Also if we hypothesize that she was an immigrant from Belarus, is it possible that she arrived to the USA from Canada by sea? I believe Canada had a lot of immigrants from ex-Soviet countries in 90-es.

Still, I believe there are higher chances she was local.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Moving Pope's Island Jane Doe back to the top. She is not forgotten.

 

[Springrain]

I do have to wonder if she was American-born but had a parent/parents or other family members from Belarus (or elsewhere in Eastern Europe), and had spent time there, and possibly inherited the ring from her mother/grandmother.