VERDICT WATCH MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #13

[TTF14]

Someone must have made a call to the Judge that the optics were horrible because she sure seemed to change her tone now! I think the way everything was worded was confusing as hell and a simple " Not Guilty " added is appropriate! Great lawyering AGAIN by the defense although I would have thought they would have caught that before allowing the sheets to go to the jury but they got it done so good on them!

As to the jury's question, sounds to me they are questioning the evidence gathered at the crime scene.

She may have just needed her second cuppa! I'll give her a pass. We all have our moments.

 

[shotgun09]

clearly her superiors got to her quickly on that unprofessional behavior.

I think her superiors as well as her and her staff were looking on Social Media. The words were flying !!!! She moved quickly to cover herself.

 

[Slick762]

Is that how our jury system should operate? Just hope that one juror correctly understands the forms and can effectively explain it to 11 others?

That's actually prohibited by the jury instructions. Jurors were instructed NOT to use personal knowledge or experience in discussions. There was a recent big trial where a juror printed out laws at home and brought them in and used their analysis of that law to influence jury deliberations.

 

[Knitty]

MOD NOTE: A random attorney with a non-relevant specialty from another state who uses unprofessional language that we don't even allow on Websleuths . . . is not an approved source. Doesn't matter if he's blue-checked - I could buy that, too, were I so inclined to buy it.

Please use the report feature below any post to ask if a source is approved.

 

[arielilane]

iirc, some of this was discussed during charging conference with judge and counsels. iirc, they left out drugs, as it was not warranted. Perhaps for future reference the forms should be shared ahead of time. moo

 

[arielilane]

@BienickWCVB

The jury returns. She tells them they already have all the available evidence. Then she begins reading her amended instructions about how to consider the vehicular manslaughter/OUI charge.

The jury was not present for the earlier debate about the language of the manslaughter verdict. Some of them seemed puzzled. They may be wondering what the change is and why.

 

[LaineyJ]

Someone must have made a call to the Judge that the optics were horrible because she sure seemed to change her tone now! I think the way everything was worded was confusing as hell and a simple " Not Guilty " added is appropriate! Great lawyering AGAIN by the defense although I would have thought they would have caught that before allowing the sheets to go to the jury but they got it done so good on them!

As to the jury's question, sounds to me they are questioning the evidence gathered at the crime scene.

Absolutely agree that the optics were horrible. Also agree she spoke with someone about this. Maybe was even reminded that she had to appear impartial and all that. Think her mask fully slipped off this morning.

Everybody wins when the verdict form is as clear as possible. Glad she changed her tune no matter the cause.

 

[TTF14]

That's actually prohibited by the jury instructions. Jurors were instructed NOT to use personal knowledge or experience in discussions. There was a recent big trial where a juror printed out laws at home and brought them in and used their analysis of that law to influence jury deliberations.

Regarding personal knowledge, would they be allowed to use personal knowledge of what dog bites look like? If there's someone familiar with that on the jury?

 

[SteveS]

We should give credit to Judge Bev for leaving a heated interaction (where she was clearly annoyed that AJ a pushy attorney was telling her what to do), then she left but continued to reflect on the question (and probably the interaction) further, and in essence coming back to say "I was wrong" and to correct her response. She did the right thing. That's normal and reasonable behavior. Good for her!

 

[arielilane]

@BienickWCVB

The jury returns to the deliberation room.


12:04 PM · Jun 26, 2024

 

[arielilane]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1805994310967701551

 

[jepop]

Is that how our jury system should operate? Just hope that one juror correctly understands the forms and can effectively explain it to 11 others?

Precisely. 100% is not how the system should work. Can't be be reliant on arbitrary factors and just hope for the best. No way. Ofcourse not moo

 

[arielilane]

@TedDanielnews

Judge now says she will add new language to verdict slip based on AJ's protest earlier. That is a reversal from earlier. Here's how I understand it. A "not guilty of the offense charged and any lessor included offense" will be added to the not guilty line on the felony manslaughter slip

As for the Jury question, they wanted to see the SERT team report. SERT team is the state police unit that searched outside 34 Fairview in the late afternoon on 1/29. all sides agreed to tell jury "they have all the evidence they need"


12:08 PM · Jun 26, 2024

 

[Slick762]

Regarding personal knowledge, would they be allowed to use personal knowledge of what dog bites look like? If there's someone familiar with that on the jury?

Depends on jury instructions but usually it comes down to your personal knowledge and experience will affect your decision, but you aren't supposed to use that in deliberations.

OK- EMT on jury has seen dog bites, thinks JO arms looks like a dog attack and votes not guilty.
Not OK- EMT uses his experience to influence jury. "I've seen multiple dog bites as a EMT and I think JO was attacked by a dog."

Before he was pardoned, Daniel Perry had an appeal pending because a juror allegedly brought in outside information on self-defense laws and used them during deliberations.

 

[Derph]

She may have just needed her second cuppa! I'll give her a pass. We all have our moments.

Normally I'd say you're right but there has been so much unprofessional behavior by people who are/should be held to a higher standard that I found her outburst this morning concerning.

But I will definitely tip my hat to her for changing her mind and tone and making things right, even if it came from someone else. That's the best I can do Lol!

 

[TTF14]

Depends on jury instructions but usually it comes down to your personal knowledge and experience will affect your decision, but you aren't supposed to use that in deliberations.

OK- EMT on jury has seen dog bites, thinks JO arms looks like a dog attack and votes not guilty.
Not OK- EMT uses his experience to influence jury. "I've seen multiple dog bites as a EMT and I think JO was attacked by a dog."

Gotcha. Makes sense. Are they allowed to say that out loud and justify their reasoning or are they not even allowed to mention it to the rest of the jurors?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

If a juror has a problem understanding some of the evidence can the other jurors help explain what the evidence means to them?

 

[Slick762]

Gotcha. Makes sense. Are they allowed to say that out loud and justify their reasoning or are they not even allowed to mention it to the rest of the jurors?

Depends on jurisdiction and judges instructions.

 

[JusCurious]

I thought (granted IANAL), that lawyers are somewhat of a fraternity that tend not to talk ill nor disparaging of another lawyer or their conduct or courtroom actions.

How non professional conduct of Ms. Murphy if as reported IMO.

Perhaps Ms. Murphy should follow her own advice…… and head back to Hollywood? MOO

I haven't seen AJ behaving like he thought he was better than anyone else. He brought on a great case.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

I said earlier I wonder if she’d discuss with a colleague who would talk some sense into her. At least she’s addressing it again

Was any sort of apology or reconsideration given to the defense counsel, (not in the presence of the jury)? MOO