MISTRIAL MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #18

[HarmonyE.]

BBM -

What really did happen to JO ? I find it hard to believe that he was beaten senseless inside the Albert house and thrown out in plain view in the front yard to die. Too bad one of the neighbors across the street didn't have a Ring or outside camera.

You may find it hard to believe, however, there is no evidence JO's body was struck by a vehicle. And we know he was headed into that house.

My own guess is John went into that house to confront Higgins. A continuation of what was going on a few minutes earlier at the Waterfall. Bad stuff happened quickly and it appeared he couldn't recover from that blow to his head, which likely happened in the man cave basement. The homeowner knew Lucky the plow guy would be coming down the road to do his first prep work by 3 or 4 am. Perfect fall guy. These are cops we're talking about here, not your average citizens. Townie cops at that.

 

[Deleted member 235284]

new to the case when did she hit his car in terms of the timeline?

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

BBM -

What really did happen to JO ? I find it hard to believe that he was beaten senseless inside the Albert house and thrown out in plain view in the front yard to die. Too bad one of the neighbors across the street didn't have a Ring or outside camera.

We will never known since the police department was so inept, but hey, KR is arrogant so she must be guilty. JMO

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

I doubt he’ll be as “cooperative” as Trial #1.
MOO

I can definitely see the defense calling him. I'm not so sure the CW will, but then again, he was the lead investigator so they kind of have to.

 

[HarmonyE.]

new to the case when did she hit his car in terms of the timeline?

The following morning when she left his house to go look for him as daylight approached.

 

[HarmonyE.]

I can definitely see the defense calling him. I'm not so sure the CW will, but then again, he was the lead investigator so they kind of have to.

They have to, if only to get out in front of the defense calling him.

Brennan will do whatever he can to make it seem Proctor was fired only for being a total creep and to downplay the bias angle. But a biased lead investigator is a huge problem for the CW.

And lest we forget - Julie Albert promised Proctor a gift "when this is all over". That's some crazy, stinky bias....

 

[Wishbone]

Karen Read retrial: Michael Proctor among 91 names on defense team’s list of witnesses​

DEDHAM, Mass. — Disgraced Trooper Michael Proctor, who was terminated by the Massachusetts State Police on Wednesday, is one of nearly 100 names included on the defense team’s list of prospective witnesses for the retrial of Karen Read.

Karen Read retrial: Michael Proctor among 91 names on defense team’s list of witnesses

Read’s legal team filed their witness list in Dedham’s Norfolk Superior Court, with the start of the Mansfield woman’s second murder trial now less than two weeks away.

www.boston25news.com

 

[Sustained]

You may find it hard to believe, however, there is no evidence JO's body was struck by a vehicle. And we know he was headed into that house.

My own guess is John went into that house to confront Higgins. A continuation of what was going on a few minutes earlier at the Waterfall. Bad stuff happened quickly and it appeared he couldn't recover from that blow to his head, which likely happened in the man cave basement. The homeowner knew Lucky the plow guy would be coming down the road to do his first prep work by 3 or 4 am. Perfect fall guy. These are cops we're talking about here, not your average citizens. Townie cops at that.

There is also no evidence JO was ever in the house and Alberts / McCabes denied he was ever in there. Was there a confrontation in the Waterfall between JO and BH about KR that I didn't see on video ? If so, why were KR/JO invited over the Alberts to continue the party ?

Trying to keep an open mind here after watching the 1st 3 parts of the ID series - I find KR very unlikeable and have no doubt she was driving drunk that night and arguing with JO. Doesn't make her guilty, but I don't see this major conspiracy to kill JO over her flirtatious texts with BH.

 

[HarmonyE.]

There is also no evidence JO was ever in the house and Alberts / McCabes denied he was ever in there. Was there a confrontation in the Waterfall between JO and BH about KR that I didn't see on video ? If so, why were KR/JO invited over the Alberts to continue the party ?

Trying to keep an open mind here after watching the 1st 3 parts of the ID series - I find KR very unlikeable and have no doubt she was driving drunk that night and arguing with JO. Doesn't make her guilty, but I don't see this major conspiracy to kill JO over her flirtatious texts with BH.

Higgins and Read had been flirting. Higgins texted Karen when she was at the Waterfall. John and Higgins can be seen on video yelling something at each other as they all begin to leave and head to Fairview. Higgins is restrained by Brian Albert (or was it Chris Albert who claims he was home at the time?) And they'd all been drinking. Higgins didn't invite anyone to Fairview; that was Jen McCabe a little earlier in the timeline here.

I did not suggest there was a grand conspiracy to lure JO to the house to kill him over texts. Not even close. I said I think John went their to "chat" further with Higgins and things quickly got out of hand with someone hitting John with a heavy object in the back of the head, grievously wounding him. To protect this person, a plan was put in place to blame it all on the plow guy who was surely going to arrive sometime in the middle of the night. A tragic accident, if you will. Karen just happened to blunder onto the scene the next morning with a slightly cracked taillight from just hitting John's car. And so it began.

(BTW, Higgins testified at the federal grand jury that he saw a tall dark haired man enter the house at Fairview. Matt McCabe was already there, and Higgins knew him and all the Alberts, so I wonder what bases Higgins was trying to cover with that very odd admission?)

 

[Sustained]

Higgins and Read had been flirting. Higgins texted Karen when she was at the Waterfall. John and Higgins can be seen on video yelling something at each other as they all begin to leave and head to Fairview. Higgins is restrained by Brian Albert (or was it Chris Albert who claims he was home at the time?) And they'd all been drinking. Higgins didn't invite anyone to Fairview; that was Jen McCabe a little earlier in the timeline here.

I did not suggest there was a grand conspiracy to lure JO to the house to kill him over texts. Not even close. I said I think John went their to "chat" further with Higgins and things quickly got out of hand with someone hitting John with a heavy object in the back of the head, grievously wounding him. To protect this person, a plan was put in place to blame it all on the plow guy who was surely going to arrive sometime in the middle of the night. A tragic accident, if you will. Karen just happened to blunder onto the scene the next morning with a slightly cracked taillight from just hitting John's car. And so it began.

(BTW, Higgins testified at the federal grand jury that he saw a tall dark haired man enter the house at Fairview. Matt McCabe was already there, and Higgins knew him and all the Alberts, so I wonder what bases Higgins was trying to cover with that very odd admission?)

How would they blame it on the plow guy if (1) they didn't know exactly when he was coming and (2) JO would have had to be walking in the path of the plow at the exact time he was plowing ?

In the blizzard, how did KR know the exact location of JO's body when she pulled up the next morning wth JM ?

 

[Tortoise]

This is the key trial question for me.

Either the defendant is guilty or evidence was juiced. That requires a criminal conspiracy by law enforcement. I don’t think we have to have a few on the alt suspect theory. Evidence could have been juiced because they believed she was guilty.

IMO this is why the case should be dismissed.

I believe the conspiracy theories are ridiculous.

Did police plant shards of broken taillight in the snow, and in his sweater, and his DNA on the rear of the car, before or after they knew telematics would reveal her car reversing at speed towards where John's body was found? And did he end up in that same location coincidentally after entering the house? How did they all plan it so well that KR would recognise in a blizzard the location of John's body buried in snow that no one else could see?

I can accept that there was some shoddy police work and a crime committed by KR.

MOO

 

[HarmonyE.]

How would they blame it on the plow guy if (1) they didn't know exactly when he was coming and (2) JO would have had to be walking in the path of the plow at the exact time he was plowing ?

In the blizzard, how did KR know the exact location of JO's body when she pulled up the next morning wth JM ?

There wasn't that much accumulation at that time with lots of wind and blowing snow and John's body wasn't fully covered by snow. I live a few miles away and remember looking out the window right around that time, very surprised there was so little snow on my car because we'd expected a very big storm overnight that didn't really kick into gear until after daylight.

If you live in New England you know roughly when the first plows start up in your neighborhood. This was a storm that needed prep work. They didn't need to know exactly when Lucky was due and - as it happens - were quite happy to see the blame shifted to any motorist. Lets not forget the homeowner wasn't just a cop himself, he had immediate family on the Canton PD and a friend on the State police who - shockingly - got assigned to the case. So the fact that John's body wasn't frozen - 80 degrees after allegedly being out in the freezing elements for over 6 hours - and the fact that his injuries didn't match up with a pedestrian hit, didn't deter them. It's nice when you're very close with the investigators, no?

 

[mrjitty]

I believe the conspiracy theories are ridiculous.

Did police plant shards of broken taillight in the snow, and in his sweater, and his DNA on the rear of the car, before or after they knew telematics would reveal her car reversing at speed towards where John's body was found? And did he end up in that same location coincidentally after entering the house? How did they all plan it so well that KR would recognise in a blizzard the location of John's body buried in snow that no one else could see?

I can accept that there was some shoddy police work and a crime committed by KR.

MOO

i agree it seems a lot

My view in dismissal comes from the shoddy evidence collection and investigation. I just don’t see how you can be sure beyond doubt with stuff like the inverted video. That troubles me a lot.

Per LYK that should lead to the judge giving a direction to the jury that the prosecution lost this critical video evidence.

etc.

 

[HarmonyE.]

I believe the conspiracy theories are ridiculous.

Did police plant shards of broken taillight in the snow, and in his sweater, and his DNA on the rear of the car, before or after they knew telematics would reveal her car reversing at speed towards where John's body was found? And did he end up in that same location coincidentally after entering the house? How did they all plan it so well that KR would recognise in a blizzard the location of John's body buried in snow that no one else could see?

I can accept that there was some shoddy police work and a crime committed by KR.

MOO

Not "the police". Proctor is the one seen in the sallyport video hovering around the taillight for a period of time (although the police and prosecution tried to make it look to the jury like he wasn't on that side - dirty, dirty) and he was the one who had the victim's clothes for almost 2 months after the incident happened. Never logged in the evidence.

Proctor was fired today.

 

[Tortoise]

i agree it seems a lot

My view in dismissal comes from the shoddy evidence collection and investigation. I just don’t see how you can be sure beyond doubt with stuff like the inverted video. That troubles me a lot.

What do you find the most troubling aspect of the inverted video?

You know they showed that camera was inverting video prior to that day?

 

[Sustained]

There wasn't that much accumulation at that time with lots of wind and blowing snow and John's body wasn't fully covered by snow. I live a few miles away and remember looking out the window right around that time, very surprised there was so little snow on my car because we'd expected a very big storm overnight that didn't really kick into gear until after daylight.

If you live in New England you know roughly when the first plows start up in your neighborhood. This was a storm that needed prep work. They didn't need to know exactly when Lucky was due and - as it happens - were quite happy to see the blame shifted to any motorist. Lets not forget the homeowner wasn't just a cop himself, he had immediate family on the Canton PD and a friend on the State police who - shockingly - got assigned to the case. So the fact that John's body wasn't frozen - 80 degrees after allegedly being out in the freezing elements for over 6 hours - and the fact that his injuries didn't match up with a pedestrian hit, didn't deter them. It's nice when you're very close with the investigators, no?

Time of death calculators estimate TOD at 12 hours earlier with a body temp of 80° and an ambient air temp of 15°.
Other factors could have dropped his temp faster but IMO, entirely reasonable John died outside at 2am and found at ~6am at 80°.

 

[Spectrix]

Too bad one of the neighbors across the street didn't have a Ring or outside camera.

If I recall correctly, one of the neighbours across the street DID have an outside camera, and he deleted the footage after claiming that it didn't show anything noteworthy. He happened to also be a Canton police officer.

 

[Forest_Wood]

What do you find the most troubling aspect of the inverted video?

You know they showed that camera was inverting video prior to that day?

Aside from it being inverted but not noted as such by the CW, the most troubling part of that video is that the date had been input manually the proper direction. (Not inverted). Deceitful. MOO

 

[Tortoise]

Aside from it being inverted but not noted as such by the CW, the most troubling part of that video is that the date had been input manually the proper direction. (Not inverted). Deceitful. MOO

Are you referring to the script along the bottom of the video?

 

[HarmonyE.]

If I recall correctly, one of the neighbours across the street DID have an outside camera, and he deleted the footage after claiming that it didn't show anything noteworthy. He happened to also be a Canton police officer.

This is correct, although I've never heard that the neighbor deliberately deleted anything. More likely it was gone after a period of time. Neither the Canton nor the state police made any effort to preserve this evidence. Or non-evidence as the case may be. Actual investigators would have wanted to confirm either way and keep it for possible prosecution. But, yeah, no interest.