MISTRIAL MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #19

[ch_13]

BIB. Right but that is the issue. What? I'd do the same thing he did probably. And I did not murder anyone. Who in their right mind would want the federal government up in their phone for example?



Why would he need to be tipped off? I realise this will sound contrarian but the defence just tried to get his phone in a court proceeding. If I were his lawyer, I'd be telling him to get rid, if there were anything at all on there. Which could be stuff totally unconnected.

IMO

I certainly wouldn’t destroy evidence that was exculpatory. If none of the texts, encrypted messages, etc on my phone showed I had anything to do with JO’s murder, I would want them to be preserved, even if some messages were embarrassing.

That would be doubly true if I was a federal LEO with a duty to an avoid the appearance of impropriety.

 

[mrjitty]

Seriously, witnesses lie on the stand all the time.

Agreed.

I think it's a better argument that an officer like Proctor is unlikely to decide to frame someone to cover up a murder because of vague connections to the 'real killers'.

He's more likely to have done a shabby job (or even corrupt) because he though the defendant was the real killer.

For instance, I now listened to the second part of Higgins testimony on day 18. I think it's fairly obvious he went to CPD so he could get up in the investigation. But why would he not when his friend was found dead on his other friends lawn?

So I agree he was being untruthful when he denied discussing the case all that day but I don't think that means he's protecting the real killer. He might have simply been protecting his friend.

I do think Yanetti and Jackson do a great job of examining him, but end of day I feel it's quite thin.

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

I certainly wouldn’t destroy evidence that was exculpatory. If none of the texts, encrypted messages, etc on my phone showed I had anything to do with JO’s murder, I would want them to be preserved, even if some messages were embarrassing.

That would be doubly true if I was a federal LEO with a duty to an avoid the appearance of impropriety.

Right but what if there is stuff on there that could cost his him job near retirement age - perhaps unrelated to this case? There are simply a lot of good reasons why you might take the chance to trash the phone that have nothing to do with being a killer.

End of the day, I don't feel this proved anything.

YMMV

 

[ch_13]

Right but what if there is stuff on there that could cost his him job near retirement age - perhaps unrelated to this case? There are simply a lot of good reasons why you might take the chance to trash the phone that have nothing to do with being a killer.

End of the day, I don't feel this proved anything.

YMMV

It would prove he’s a dirty officer.

That was exactly my point. People keep arguing that there’s no evidence against anyone except Karen. Yet, I listed a dozen reasons why BH’s actions should be considered suspicious.

And only a biased and piss-poor investigation kept him from being a suspect.

 

[Linda7NJ]

All things were very visible, not an actual blizzard or nor'easter as is imagined at that time.

what time specifically are you talking about?

 

[Wishbone]

c

 

[Lorenathered]

For instance, I now listened to the second part of Higgins testimony on day 18. I think it's fairly obvious he went to CPD so he could get up in the investigation. But why would he not when his friend was found dead on his other friends lawn?

SBM. He openly admitted to going after JOK's girl(Karen) behind his back with no remorse or apologies for it. I apparently have a different definition of what a friend is. IMO it proves that he certainly had no loyalty to JOK.

 

[mrjitty]

It would prove he’s a dirty officer.

That was exactly my point. People keep arguing that there’s no evidence against anyone except Karen. Yet, I listed a dozen reasons why BH’s actions should be considered suspicious.

And only a biased and piss-poor investigation kept him from being a suspect.

I tend to agree it's evidence of a poor investigation for Bowden.

I don't see that it proves anything re the fight conspiracy

 

[Tortoise]

The forensic scientist said testing did uncover pig DNA. The prosecution said the samples were taken from John O'Keefe's shirt by the state police lab.

Expert disputes dog DNA defense in Karen Read murder trial

The Karen Read murder trial continues with more perspectives from witnesses on Wednesday.

turnto10.com

Does it mention saliva?

 

[kuromiiiilove]

The forensic scientist said testing did uncover pig DNA. The prosecution said the samples were taken from John O'Keefe's shirt by the state police lab.

Expert disputes dog DNA defense in Karen Read murder trial

The Karen Read murder trial continues with more perspectives from witnesses on Wednesday.

turnto10.com

And IMO, there are several issues with the DNA evidence from the shirt. The forensic scientist who testified about the pig DNA did not take the swab herself. She only received the swab in the mail at her lab and conducted testing on it. She couldn’t confirm where on the shirt the swab was actually taken, when it was taken, or any other details. She simply relied on what she was told, that the swab came from the area near the tears in the fabric.

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

DBM

 

[Linda7NJ]

JOK was not found across the street or 'Bella's mom's. Remember where he was found, to a place he was INVITED and J.Mc KEPT calling and calling him, texts and calls that she deleted but WERE FOUNDDD. 'pants on fire...... if you know the little poem.

You don’t find it incredibly strange Karen Read never once asked what happened as she dropped him off there and watched him go inside?

What did she say first ?- John’s dead, hit by a plow and I left him at The Waterfall and I hit him

Had she said John was last seen going into that house when I dropped him off. There would have been probable cause to investigate inside the house.

Karen Read and her attorneys instead concocted some other dude did it defense, and blamed everyone and a minor son

I find what she did and her defense reprehensible

All IMO

 

[mrjitty]

You don’t find it incredibly strange Karen Read never once asked what happened as she dropped him off there and watched him go inside?

What did she say first ?- John’s dead, hit by a plow and I left him at The Waterfall and I hit him

Had she said John was last seen going into that house when I dropped him off. There would have been probable cause to investigate inside the house.

Karen Read and her attorneys instead concocted some other dude did it defense, and blamed everyone and a minor son

I find what she did and her defense reprehensible

All IMO

IMO KR made up seeing JOK "put his head round the door" - i really found that interview entirely unconvincing.

MOO

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

You don’t find it incredibly strange Karen Read never once asked what happened as she dropped him off there and watched him go inside?

What did she say first ?- John’s dead, hit by a plow and I left him at The Waterfall and I hit him

Had she said John was last seen going into that house when I dropped him off. There would have been probable cause to investigate inside the house.

Karen Read and her attorneys instead concocted some other dude did it defense, and blamed everyone and a minor son

I find what she did and her defense reprehensible

All IMO

RBBM -- God forbid she defend herself. She should just roll over and let them do what they want since they're cops. LE bias. JMO

 

[Linda7NJ]

so when the crown loses again are they going to waste even more taxpayer mone and go for the threepeat?

I would urge them to.

 

[ch_13]

I tend to agree it's evidence of a poor investigation for Bowden.

I don't see that it proves anything re the fight conspiracy

Remember his whereabouts are unknown for an hour around the murder. His claim that he was driving to the PD is a transparent lie.

The commonwealth had ample reason to subpoena his phone which would have given away his real location.

 

[Forest_Wood]

You don’t find it incredibly strange Karen Read never once asked what happened as she dropped him off there and watched him go inside?

What did she say first ?- John’s dead, hit by a plow and I left him at The Waterfall and I hit him

Had she said John was last seen going into that house when I dropped him off. There would have been probable cause to investigate inside the house.

Karen Read and her attorneys instead concocted some other dude did it defense, and blamed everyone and a minor son

I find what she did and her defense reprehensible

All IMO

Has it ever occurred to you that KR might know something about these people through her relationship with JOK (and Higgins) that she hasn't spoken up about that led her to come to this conclusion they might be involved?
MOO

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

Has it ever occurred to you that KR might know something about these people through her relationship with JOK (and Higgins) that she hasn't spoken up about that led to her come to this conclusion they might be involved?
MOO

Nope, she did an interview and her voice sounds weird and she's arrogant so that makes her a "psychopath" apparently.

 

[Tortoise]

And IMO, there are several issues with the DNA evidence from the shirt. The forensic scientist who testified about the pig DNA did not take the swab herself. She only received the swab in the mail at her lab and conducted testing on it. She couldn’t confirm where on the shirt the swab was actually taken, when it was taken, or any other details. She simply relied on what she was told, that the swab came from the area near the tears in the fabric.

Isn't that standard protocol, to send swabs to specialist labs for testing, labelled for identification? It doesn't have to be the person who collected the swabs performing the test, so I'm not sure why that's an issue.

 

[Forest_Wood]

Remember his whereabouts are unknown for an hour around the murder. His claim that he was driving to the PD is a transparent lie.

The commonwealth had ample reason to subpoena his phone which would have given away his real location.

My one question about the phones of BH and BA is, couldn't the defense or CW glean information about their phones from the telecommunications provider (so long as they had a warrant)?