MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #21 Retrial

[waldojabba]

IMO, the ARCAA testimony is the biggest fear of the CW. The judge I'm afraid will find a way to reject it. A shame on Massachusett.

The P is trying to make sure that ARCCA report never sees the light of day or night in that court room. I find it hard to believe that the D has intentionally put that testimony in jeopardy. It will be in teresting to see what transpires in court with the voir dire.

What I continually wrestle with in my mind is why didnt the P ring up the ARCCA people themselves. They had the document from ARCCA first. You can see they are experts by their cases /credentials etc.
I know the report countered their belief but have a discussion with them try to understand why they came to their conclusion. Science deniers?
Were they just looking to close out their case or get to the truth/ Justice for John?
Thats a rhetorical question
JMO

 

[PamCake]

You are so right. But why would they just put him in front of the house like an advertisement….I would think they’d come up with a better idea to cover up if that’s what really happened …

Maybe they were hoping it would look like a plow hit him.

 

[Linda7NJ]

The P is trying to make sure that ARCCA report never sees the light of day or night in that court room. I find it hard to believe that the D has intentionally put that testimony in jeopardy. It will be in teresting to see what transpires in court with the voir dire.

What I continually wrestle with in my mind is why didnt the P ring up the ARCCA people themselves. They had the document from ARCCA first. You can see they are experts by their cases /credentials etc.
I know the report countered their belief but have a discussion with them try to understand why they came to their conclusion. Science deniers?
Were they just looking to close out their case or get to the truth/ Justice for John?
Thats a rhetorical question
JMO

The prosecution did a poor job of showing the limited data ARCCA had and just how tight the parameters of their testing was.

IMO

 

[ShadyLady]

She got her intel of how to play it off from ALBERT. Calls I would say that OMGGGG> K just said she might of hit him or to that like.. I wonder how different things would of been if John was found by anyone else. I say down by the street and the plow must of hit him spiel was the plan. He was not seen because he was not there and the car was parked down in front of him when the plower did go by, obscured. Don't know when Alberts came back out and moved it back or whoever owned it, to their place. Unfortunately, the plower did them a favor by not calling that in, that a car was parked on street, illigal, during a snow event. The time and that the car was in front of where JO was found would of def changed things up maybe. A couple of lucky for them events and not for KR. SO FAR.

Completely makes sense.

We are on WS to post what we think might have happen. And a lot of our speculation makes more sense than prosecutor's case. IMO.

 

[LvsAMystry]

I understand the “grand conspiracy” is interesting & fun to toy with, Imagining all sorts of far fetched excuses & scenarios.

Then lots of people got caught up and listen to & believed TB.
Many deny it.
They were propagandized, many are now seeing through the smoke & mirrors of the defense & many never will. It’s hard to admit when you’ve been duped.

Hopefully, this trial
ARCCA will be decimated on their shotty report. The defense got lucky last time, the prosecutor didn’t have the sense to get an PhD expert.
The car data this go around is way more robust as more of it was retrieved.
As is the phone data.
That’s gonna narrow & pin down the timeline

Hank is an exceptional attorney and he has the truth in his side.

All IMO

how do you know all this about the evidence, do you have inside information or is it rumor?

 

[ShadyLady]

Yes, her bf testified that she was to spend the night at the house party, parents, but called him to come and get her. That she knew he would be up super early to plow around so did wake him up, such a phone conversation or text that was I bet. Frantic. He also was on board for training /applying for firefighter in Canton. She added that they saw a little dog (in the storm walking around) so they picked him up to bring him to the police dept, she said. Then said, but the owner was out front already of the station. She never went in, but the CANTON PD has cameras, love to see if that was brought up, if she truly was there. These people, straight faces, filled with fake truth and big eyes.

So, cover for dog hair in their car?

 

[Linda7NJ]

how do you know all this about the evidence, do you have inside information or is it rumor?

I have been paying attention.

 

[keek]

So, cover for dog hair in their car?

I believe she said it was a white dog, if Albert's dog was white, I don't know but hmmmm.

 

[Linda7NJ]

If it were found on Karen's phone, LE would have bought it up at first trial.

His computer was upstairs iirc

 

[LvsAMystry]

I understand the “grand conspiracy” is interesting & fun to toy with, Imagining all sorts of far fetched excuses & scenarios.

Then lots of people got caught up and listen to & believed TB.
Many deny it.
They were propagandized, many are now seeing through the smoke & mirrors of the defense & many never will. It’s hard to admit when you’ve been duped.

Hopefully, this trial
ARCCA will be decimated on their shotty report. The defense got lucky last time, the prosecutor didn’t have the sense to get an PhD expert.
The car data this go around is way more robust as more of it was retrieved.
As is the phone data.
That’s gonna narrow & pin down the timeline

Hank is an exceptional attorney and he has the truth in his side.

All IMO

*shoddy

 

[PamCake]

I thought that JMc DID go into the house minutes after finding JO - as seen from the patrol car camera (dash cam). IIRC, D pointed this out in Trial 1 - while KR was walking back and forth and EMTs working on JO, JMc slipped away from the scene and walked into the house. Correct me if I’m wrong here!

You're right. I'm not sure exactly when this happened, if it was right upon arriving or later, but why on earth wouldn't the homeowners come out once they were told about what was happening?

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

This is a trial discussion .... to discuss the trial. What a novel concept.

If there's an issue, Report it. Next member to derail the thread with bickering will lose posting privileges in this thread.

 

[ShadyLady]

You're right. I'm not sure exactly when this happened, if it was right upon arriving or later, but why on earth wouldn't the homeowners come out once they were told about what was happening?

I did not see JenMc go into the house before medics and LE were there. Can someone post LE cam where it shows her going into house. I just see her speaking with LE as medics work on JOK, and Karen running back and forth.

 

[Linda7NJ]

*shoddy

Thank you …blushing

 

[TIGER0822]

Well, imagine one of the EMTs or doctor or nurse who attended to Karen that day.
Imagine they texted their friends, family and supervisor within hours to say:

• She's a whack job c**t
• I hope she kills herself
• She has a balloon knot
• She poos herself
• She's a babe but has no
• Checking her phone and "no nudes yet"

Imagine those same professionals didn't perform a proper medical assessment on KR that day because they had already deemed her guilty of killing the guy that just died in the next clinical room, who they know is a cop.

And imagine those same medical personnel went drinking while in control of an ambulance or other hospital vehicle while on duty with the brother of one of the people involved in her case.

It sounds ridiculous doesn't it?

Proctor was entrusted to conduct himself as a professional investigator, and he failed miserably.

The jury will surely see him for what he is.

MOO

Text between Proctor and a friend.
"I'm sure the owner of the house will receive some s---."

Proctor responded, "Nope, homeowner is a Boston cop, too,"

 

[rescuemom]

Two random thoughts:

I think JO’s mom finally has someone to blame after losing two of her children. Health issues took her daughter, so can’t point her rage there. Karen, though, is a living, breathing thing that she can point rage towards. Maybe she didn’t like KR even before this, I don’t know, haven’t kept track of that. Just a random thought I had. I am a little confused though when she said she asked why KR was at the hospital — did we hear that before or is this new?

This trial feels so messy compared to the first one. This thread isn’t even as active as it was in the first trial, though maybe it’s because the trial just started? I’m really looking forward to seeing proctor on the stand because he can’t have pride and ego to hide behind. Since he lost his job. But then again with what we’ve seen of him, he will probably still be the same old proctor with the same attitude. Maybe even worse?

ETA I watched that docuseries thing. Her attorneys are smart. They must have a reason for letting her do those, though I’m not sure why.

All jmo

ETA I watched that docuseries thing. Her attorneys are smart. They must have a reason for letting her do those, though I’m not sure why.

I watched in its entirety the 1st trial as an 'outsider' knowing nothing about the case or participants, just from the headlines that a woman killed her Boston cop boyfriend. For me these docus/videos were helpful to see her 'in action'. I've said many times that KR would not be someone I would or could call a friend. We wouldn't click but she does not deserve to be a scapegoat or be convicted of a murder she, IMO did not commit.

She has been critcized and her privacy has been invaded to the point of ridicule. Her med issues MS and IBS ridiculed, and learning she was on her period that night. Disgusting. In many trials the perp is totally protected with little to no info about them. Not here the more the better. She, IMO is a victim too.

She is an educated, accomplished woman on her own who entered a relationship with a man who cared for two children and who by testimony helped take care of these kids to his criticism and lack of appreciation. That makes me wonder who was John Okeefe besides being a Boston cop??

I am not victim shaming/blaming because he absolutely did not deserve what happened to him. We can only hear from friends who did not live with him on a daily basis. Do we know anything else about him? Was he someone who could commit to a relationship and treat a partner with respect and/or appreciation??? Did someone have it in for him and if so why?? Just an example.

To me, this situation turned out to be a perfect storm for someone or some reason and I do not think that on a particular night it was for KR to kill her boyfriend. All JMO.

 

[ShadyLady]

You're right. I'm not sure exactly when this happened, if it was right upon arriving or later, but why on earth wouldn't the homeowners come out once they were told about what was happening?

In the first trial I remember her saying she went into their bedroom, no mention of a dog, and woke them up, (had keys to get into their home???)....but I think this was after JOK had been taken. She said she called her sister, and in the LE cam it did show her on the phone, she was walking on the left side of Karen's car. But said no one answered.

 

[PamCake]

what is a balloon knot? what do they mean? mOO

Picture, in your mind's eye, what a balloon looks like at the point where it is tied in a knot...remind you of anything?

 

[PamCake]

Alcohol should be on trial here too imo.

We all analyze everybody else involved in this tradegy but the defendant, as though they were all stone cold sober logical people. They were not.
A "guy" has been dropped off at your house for a party. Something goes awry unexpectedly, everybody is pretty well hammered and instead of making the right choice to immed dial 911 ( alcohol clouding your judgement) - you don't.
What seems like a good idea while drunk - usually isn't.

Maybe they put him in the street bc at the time they thought it would look like he got hit with the plow, or that he fell while trying to walk home... who knows what their drunk minds were thinking.

I guess it bears repeating until the cows come home, because of the quality of the investigation - very subpar - we are all left to fill in the blanks.
John could have hit his head on his very own - but then nobody saw John there on the lawn so there is a little wrinkle there. And we still have the dog ravaged arm - the wounds on his arm are in a position where while standing they would be defensive wounds as the dog jumped up on him. But the owners contend that Chloe was never in the front yard.

Everywhere you turn with this case there is inconsistency and contradiction.

The witness statements were all taken seemingly together so you lost any nuance there. And there has been so much obfuscation - getting rid of phones, butt dials galore while people are sleeping - it goes on and on. And of course ARCCA who at the first trial was the gold standard for me about whether John was hit by a vehicle or not. Their testimoney is well worth watching IMO. They testified that John was not hit by any Vehicle.

We will have to see how this trial goes - we have not gotten into the meat of anything - but from the evidence I know, I strongly believe that the charges cannot be proven Beyond A Reasonable Doubt. No matter what any of us "think" happened.

JMO

Well said!

 

[rescuemom]

The prosecutions expert for this trial

Judson B. Welcher | Executive Vice President

Judson B. Welcher

www.aperturellc.com

Here’s some of his published works

http://profiles.sae.org/57831106144/

Published works, here we go "impact crash testing were reviewed", "presents an analysis", "analysis of peak lumbar load data collected from the existing peer-reviewed literature ", "several studies have been conducted", etc, etc.

Doesn't look like he actually did his own testing with every variable and circumstance imaginable and that he has piggy-backed on the work of others??

Why wasn't ARCAA, considered to be a preimminent investigatory company not good enough for the Norfolk Couny, Mass DA office??? Sounds like they expert shopped. Insane.