MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #21 Retrial

[Tortoise]

Can someone remind me when Karen’s car or phone connected to John’s wifi and hos long it takes to drive to his house from the Albert’s’ house?

I believe travel time between the two houses can't be calculated without knowing the route taken (distance) or the speed.

There are also other factors at play like drink-driving, which is not mindful of the laws of the road, or safe driving. IMO

 

[kuromiiiilove]

Were you there? How do you know that?

A medical examiner later reported that O'Keefe had abrasions to his right arm, several lacerations to the face, two black eyes, and skull fractures which would have contributed to brain bleeding. They determined that hypothermia was a contributing factor to O'Keefe's death.

Most of the time, this sort of brain bleeding doesn't make you unconscious immediately.

Regardless, it doesn't explain why a dozen people didn't see him in the yard if they were coming and going. That yard is much smaller than some photos would have you believe. I think Jen probably could've seen John from the windows if she was looking out as adamantly/constantly as she says she was.

And didn’t he have blood drops on his shirt that implied he was sitting/standing after he began bleeding?

 

[Wishbone]

3 flight of stairs in the car due to elevation.

So says the squirming witness

 

[iusedtofloat]

Can someone remind me when Karen’s car or phone connected to John’s wifi and hos long it takes to drive to his house from the Albert’s’ house?

The state says Karen hit him at the Alberts within minutes of her phone connecting to John's wifi at 1236am. So, as a college professor with medical issues, with no record, who by all accounts loved her boyfriend - her boyfriend that was the only stable/caretaking parent in this world of 2 orphaned children, her boyfriend whose mom had already lost a daughter and a son-in-law - she just, you know, casually decided it was time for her very first homicidal adventure during a blizzard outside a stranger's house. She then is just *so* drunk she forgets she killed the man she loves, but manages to drive home without crashing in the blizzard, and calls him dozens of times trying to figure out where he is - "just for an alibi" - and when the calls are produced as evidence, they all make Karen look like an insane girlfriend... but that was calculated? on her part? apparently? I'm not understanding that aspect.

Also if John never went in the house, why would Karen not be able to see him? Idk, if she did do it (which all evidence points to her innocence), why would she leave him angry voicemails that would focus the investigation on her. Why wouldn't she come up with a better story? And the parts of her story that we CAN verify are all true - we've seen them on camera. Somehow, seeing it with your own eyes isn't good enough for some people, and I think it comes down to some deep-down core issue of wanting to believe anyone who's a cop in this country must be benevolent, always, because it gives them some sense of comfort. I wish it were true.

Some people hate Karen because she's (rightfully) smug in her innocence, in her F-U to her state government, because she is SUPPORTED as a truth-teller by her large community. People want her to be vulnerable and beg for mercy for a crime she didn't even commit. It's weird. I could do a whole Freudian dissection on those people but I'll save you from it.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Were you there? How do you know that?

A medical examiner later reported that O'Keefe had abrasions to his right arm, several lacerations to the face, two black eyes, and skull fractures which would have contributed to brain bleeding. They determined that hypothermia was a contributing factor to O'Keefe's death.

Most of the time, this sort of brain bleeding doesn't make you unconscious immediately.

Regardless, it doesn't explain why a dozen people didn't see him in the yard if they were coming and going. That yard is much smaller than some photos would have you believe. I think Jen probably could've seen John from the windows if she was looking out as adamantly/constantly as she says she was.

subarachnoid hemorrhage - caused his black eyes
This was undisputed

 

[iusedtofloat]

I’m so sorry you got hit. In high school, my significant other was hit by a vehicle. His pelvis, femur, and some ribs were broken, and he had to learn to walk again. It’s been very present on my mind during this trial. I just don’t believe it’s possible for JOK to have no damage to his lower body if he was hit by a vehicle. MOO.

Damn I'm so sorry. It's definitely brutal. 4 surgeries and some change ("procedures" in addition to surgeries.. idk the difference). I'm proud of your SO for learning to walk again.

And didn’t he have blood drops on his shirt that implied he was sitting/standing after he began bleeding?

Yes.

subarachnoid hemorrhage - caused his black eyes
This was undisputed

How did the car hit him, leave no bruise, but fracture his skull and scratch and puncture his arm Linda? Genuinely I am curious

 

[iusedtofloat]

3 flight of stairs in the car due to elevation.

that's not how that works. The Apple Health app counts a flight of stairs as approximately 10 feet (3 meters) of elevation gain. This is also roughly equivalent to 16 steps. The app uses a combination of motion sensors, including an accelerometer and gyroscope, and potentially a barometric altimeter to determine elevation changes and calculate flights climbed. Some users have reported discrepancies in the accuracy of flights climbed measurements, with some flights potentially being undercounted or overcounted, particularly when elevation changes are gradual or inconsistent.
discussions.apple.com/thread/252584142

So you're saying his phone climbed 48 steps because of mysterious elevation anomalies outside and his phone still ended up in his pocket/beneath him?

 

[iusedtofloat]

The amount of people taking the prosecution's "experts" testimony as facts without even hearing the defense is wild to me.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Damn I'm so sorry. It's definitely brutal. 4 surgeries and some change ("procedures" in addition to surgeries.. idk the difference). I'm proud of your SO for learning to walk again.

Yes.

How did the car hit him, leave no bruise, but fracture his skull and scratch and puncture his arm Linda? Genuinely I am curious

There’s significant swelling on his arm above the abrasions
And a bruise on his knee IIRC.
The head injury I would think came from smashing his head on the ground, I don’t think it was simply a fall backwards based on the abrasion above the gash. That IMO shows some momentum.

ALL IMO

 

[Amber29]

The amount of people taking the prosecution's "experts" testimony as facts without even hearing the defense is wild to me.

I think this is how it’s supposed to work. As the CW is putting on their case you are supposed to feel confident in her guilt, then the defense goes and pokes holes in that confidence.

 

[jepop]

Truly infuriating. An injustice for one of us is an injustice for all of us. They need to let the defense DO THEIR JOBS. So much of this case reeks of obstruction of justice, all from "officials".

Whiffen was allowed to give a lecture for the most part. There didn't seem to be much Q and A required. Let's hope cannone allows similar when defence experts rebut.

Hopefully at the very least they will not be hamstrung from offering a perspective that Whiffen may infact not really be 'all that'; his analysis from his own software, his no report based power pointing, the steps that are not steps, the 25 metre radius accuracy that is more accurate than a 25 metre radius, the flights traversed that are not flights traversed, the deletions that are not deletions, and the searches that are not searches. I'm not convinced the jury will take all that as the gospel truth. Jmo

 

[Linda7NJ]

I’m wondering if the spoiler above the Lexus hatch would line up with John O’Keefe’s head injury?

 

[MerlinFalcon]

Has Karen’s phone also had this type of record created? That would be helpful.

 

[detectivewannab]

I’m wondering if the spoiler above the Lexus hatch would line up with John O’Keefe’s head injury?

They did tell the jury to look at it.

 

[Forest_Wood]

Has Karen’s phone also had this type of record created? That would be helpful.

That’s what I’m wondering too. Both need to match up.

 

[jepop]

There’s significant swelling on his arm above the abrasions
And a bruise on his knee IIRC.
The head injury I would think came from smashing his head on the ground, I don’t think it was simply a fall backwards based on the abrasion above the gash. That IMO shows some momentum.

ALL IMO

Re the bolded in your post. Can you please link to the testimony of the MEs on autopsy where this is stated. I don't recall that and have never heard it before. "Significant swelling of his arm above the abrasions". I don't suppose you're just making it up but perhaps you are mistaken?

Regarding the bruise on his knee, I recall during Little's cross of the ME; she showed a picture of that bruise, next to a small ruler for scale. It was about the same size as a twenty cent piece ( that is, no more than two or three centimetres in diameter,) and possibly I have that wrong and it was even smaller. The ME authenticated the picture and Little was done. "No further questions,". Moo

 

[Spectrix]

I’m wondering if the spoiler above the Lexus hatch would line up with John O’Keefe’s head injury?

<modsnip - snark> Now explain how the Lexis crashed into his head without touching ANY other part of his body?

 

[Linda7NJ]

They did tell the jury to look at it.

I know, that’s why I’m wondering!

 

[Linda7NJ]

That’s what I’m wondering too. Both need to match up.

The spoiler is roughly 5.5 feet off the ground - depending on tires
How tall was John?

 

[Linda7NJ]

<modsnip - snark> Now explain how the Lexis crashed into his head without touching ANY other part of his body?

Knee = bumper
Arm = taillight

IMO