MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #23 Retrial

[Luna20]

I am actually verified here in trauma. I did not see a trauma response in her at all. I saw evasiveness, contempt, and I am smarter than you. I didn't see memory lapses. She was defiant. Someone with true trauma memory lapses would not act this way. They would normally draw into themselves, be tearful, be mad at themselves for not remembering, be sincerely apologetic, etc. She was not those things. The last thing they would be is the things she was emoting. That is just not how trauma response presents. They are normally very embarrassed when they cannot remember. They can even just shut down.

ETA: She would not be in such a hot seat, if she would tell the truth and not have so many inconsistencies. Jackson could not try to trip her up or catch her in lies if her story stayed consistent.

If she is dealing with the result of such complex trauma she could have brought a support person with her and she could have asked the court for a break when things were getting too overwhelming for her so that she could ground herself again in hopes that her memory would return in a better state once she was out of fight or flight. However, I think that she was in a constant state of fight or flight because she had to be constantly worried about being tripped up. You could see her being hyper vigilant with her eyes, trying to prepare for what would be thrown at her next instead of trying to keep calm and just tell the truth.

Agree, her eyes were like daggers!

 

[keek]

Did Kerry Roberts ever think it was weird that JMc never went inside the house to ask her sister, BIL or nephew for more help since she herself was busy trying to focus on and administer First Aid or CPR alone and could use more support, especially from other first responders like NA and BA who would be the most equipped or trained to help her save JOK?

Good question and that would be interesting in hearing her answer at least to that. I haven't heard that Kerry told her to go get BA to help. I would of thought KR would of been frantic for help as he was on BA's yard and the house was right there of course, with BA in it. IMO

 

[Forest_Wood]

Something I question about the idea that if KR knew or thought she was guilty hitting JOK with her car why would she ask JMc to search “how long to die from hypothermia”. According to an EMT and Kerry Roberts testimonies in trial one JOK had blood and vomit flowing down the front of his clothes, a blood head wound and at least one swollen eye. He was unresponsive and clearly wounded. If KR thought she hit JOK with her car would she really think it would be the hypothermia that would likely kill him considering the trauma he possible suffered after being struck by a car and the subsequent wounds, lacerations, blood loss, loss of consciousness and unresponsiveness and build up of vomit potentially blocking or asphyxiating the airways it caused?

Did Kerry Roberts ever think it was weird that JMc never went inside the house to ask her sister, BIL or nephew for more help since she herself was busy trying to focus on and administer First Aid or CPR alone and could use more support, especially from other first responders like NA and BA who would be the most equipped or trained to help her save JOK?

Jen McCabe îs most comfortable doing nothing but being on her phone everywhere she is.

 

[JasmineD]

Good question and that would be interesting in hearing her answer at least to that. I haven't heard that Kerry told her to go get BA to help. I would of thought KR would of been frantic for help as he was on BA's yard and the house was right there of course, with BA in it. IMO

Do we know how much Kerry would have known about Brian Albert?

 

[Forest_Wood]

https://www.jezebel.com/heres-your-wtf-is-happening-guide-to-the-karen-read-trial
A decent overview of where we are to date.

 

[Forest_Wood]

Do we know how much Kerry would have known about Brian Albert?

I don't think Kerry knew Brian Albert at all. Brian Albert hardly knew John O'Keefe. He testified that he had only met John a couple of times at bars within the two weeks prior to his death.

 

[ShadyLady]

I wonder what Brennan is thinking about now...next week should be interesting. Understatement!

Somehow I think Chloe getting involved escalated the horsing around. I am sure John was fighting the dog, and then did someone hit him in the head? John had bruising on his hand. He hit something.

 

[LvsAMystry]

I think you’re right. Didn’t she say it was in case their kids lost their keys? So lame. Psst Alberts’, here’s a secret: You can leave a spare key hidden outside. You’re welcome!

And that in itself makes no sense because Brian and Nicole Albert have two children, Caitlin and Brian, Jr. As we know, Caitlin had been there and had left but either way she doesn’t live there. Brian Jr. was living there but home since he’d had friends over for his bday and was anticipating his early morning Bday donuts from Aunt Julie.

ETA scratch that they have more than 2 children and not sure where the others were that night

 

[LvsAMystry]

She probably did wonder if she might have hit him unknowingly in the heat of it all. But there's absolutely no evidence on John's body that he was struck by a vehicle.

I don't think Jen thought John would be found on someone's couch.

The thing to me is KR connected to. 1 Meadows WiFi at 1236 and we know JMc was looking out the window and watching car movements and trying to get hold of JOK ( purportedly) well past the timeframe when KR could no longer have been there based on the WiFi connection. The CW theorizes she reversed at speeds of 28 mph to hit him; do you know how much noise that would’ve made on that quiet residential street? And JMc who was admittedly tracking all activity outside wouldn’t have heard and seen that?

 

[JasmineD]

And that in itself makes no sense because Brian and Nicole Albert have two children, Caitlin and Brian, Jr. As we know, Caitlin had been there and had left but either way she doesn’t live there. Brian Jr. was living there but home since he’d had friends over for his bday and was anticipating his early morning Bday donuts from Aunt Julie.

I think they have 5 kids. I know there are twins. Brian Jr. may have been the only one at home after Caitlin left. With that said, I call BS on a Boston cop not locking up.

 

[LvsAMystry]

I think they have 5 kids. I know there are twins. Brian Jr. may have been the only one at home after Caitlin left. With that said, I call BS on a Boston cop not locking up.

I realized that after there are younger ones although obviously hadn’t been there, and yes regardless no way wouldn’t have locked up.

 

[pamelado2]

I don’t think she realized she hit him. She floored it in reverse to scare him, hit him, torment him, or who knows why. She previously stated her music was blaring. I don’t think she knew she hit him.

All MOO

It's the 4 minutes that doesn't make sense. I use Google maps daily, in short distances it is EXTREMELY accurate. For longer distances it's possible to make up time and arrive early.
I use timeline and when I look at my trips to my local grocery store, it took me 5 minutes the last 5 times. I go 5-10 over most of the time, and my time is still 5 minutes. Exactly what Google says it will be.
Think about how fast she'd have to go to shave 2 minutes off that time.
At 40mph it would take 4 minutes, but no accelerating, no stopping, no following the flow of traffic, no breaking at all. At 30 mph with the same restrictions, it would take 5.2 minutes. So Google allowed .8 minutes for accelerating, breaking, etc.
It takes 3.12 minutes to travel 2.6 miles at 50 mph. - then if you add .8 minute for breaking, stop signs, etc and you could do it in just a tiny bit under 4

 

[TDoc72]

Either scenario works for me. Intentional? I doubt it because would anything have happened had Karen gone in with him like they expected? I’m not sure why Jen wanted her to go with her.

As much as I dislike all of that gang, I’m leaning towards accident. In the house, a punch or two to the face, maybe a retaliatory punch by John, knockout punch makes him fall back and he hits his head and bleeds all over. They dragged him out and left him to die.

Or maybe one of them started fighting with him and someone else hit him too because they defended their friend or relative. One punches his face, the other hits him from behind. Chloe got involved either way and scratched/bit him. Meanwhile Karen is getting more and more pissed because she thought he was ghosting her. I wonder what would have happened if she had gone in the house.

I have a couple of scenarios:
—I don’t think the gang set out to murder him.
—makes it into the house/backyard, a fight ensues, and they put him in the front yard. Dog is involved somewhat, either during the fight or after. Definitely looks like scratches to me.
—makes it into the house/backyard, fight ensues but he’s generally ok, leaves house, slips in yard. Member of gang finds body later, dog involved, but they decide to leave him.
—leaves KR’s car to go to house, tries to return to car for whatever reason, tries to catch her as she’s pulling away, and slips in yard, hitting head. This doesn’t explain dog marks, unless then the gang finds him and leaves him.
———
So hard to decide what is most probable based on the shoddy evidence/investigation. I definitely think the gang is involved somehow. I find JM’s text of “Kerry talking to police and she kept it simple” very interesting. Kept what simple? Kerry just telling what she knows is not keeping it simple. To me, it definitely implies a more complicated story.

 

[rescuemom]

No. The timeline shows she called and texted before John's phone started recording final steps outside.

Don't think so and IMO if John's phone was recording steps outside they were not John's steps

 

[jepop]

Is that the same thing as a lie

Rhetorical question? But yeah I'd say a deliberate/intentional fabrication is a lie IMO.

 

[Tricia]

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[TristanP]

Maybe Whiffin needs to tell us if Jen’s phone was in a pocket state during the 7 calls and 14 button pushes?

In the last trial, it was said that there were texts happening interspersed with the calls.

 

[TristanP]

Not meaning to argue in any way .. this is just how my mind is thinking. Why would someone be looking on the ground? Why would she think he would be walking home in a snow storm and she would find him laying along the road instead of thinking that he is probably passed out on someones couch because he didn't have a ride home? So are we to believe that out of all the yards they passed on the way to Fairview that there were no other uneven spots that looked out of place to her? It just seems to me like she knew exactly where she would find him.

Because one of the possibilities is that he tried to walk home and was hit by a car or a plow.

 

[rescuemom]

IMO, John was being set up by BA and BH for some kind of confrontation to take place at BAs after party and by all that we know JOK and Karen were likely to be the last to arrive and the younger crowd had been there already for BAjrs birthday.

Also IMO, JOK was attacked, beaten and then a blow to the head rendered him incapacitated by BA, BH, CA with Chloe in the basement.

So the younger crowd, Jen Mc, MMc, NA, JN, SL and BAjr and maybe a few more were upstairs in the kichen area. At what point do the kitchen people become aware or know that something happened in the basement to JOK and to what severity and by whom???

What happened next??
How do you keep all of these people from heading for the door to get out of there??
Did someone from the basement come upstairs to tell?
Or did they keep JOK in the basement until people started leaving on their own??
Did no one from the basement have blood or any marks on them or their clothes?
Is that when BH left for the 1hr trip to Canton PD??
Is that when Chloe was removed from the house?
Is that when CA was picked up by AMc and they rode around until she got home at 1:30 or so?
All JMO

 

[Tortoise]

Don't think so and IMO if John's phone was recording steps outside they were not John's steps

Yes, Ian Whiffin Cellebrite expert created a timeline.

starts at 3.39.45