MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #23 Retrial

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  • #741
The idea that JOK was "getting out of the Lexus" at 12:32 is pure conjecture. So is the idea that he and KR were "in the Lexus" from 12:24-31, an idea invented because it bolsters the story the cw wants to tell. But none of that comes from the testimony itself.

Prior to 12:24, Whiffen testified the phone seems to be moving toward the house already (although with the reliability iffiness of the location device, no way to be sure). And then he said explicitly they have no location data whatsoever for the JOK phone between 12:24 and 12:36, with his first explanation for that lack of signal being that the phone was in a building. Although W didn't want to say it, that obviously makes it very possible that JOK is in the house from 12:24-36, and it further opens the door to lots of other scenarios. One would be that he is attacked as he enters at 12:24 or so, and then the checking of the 12:32 text may not necessarily have been done by JOK at all.

Interestingly, his phone location signal doesn't come back on until 12:36, well after KR has left.* Is that coincidence, or was it due to designed actions?

Oh, and it may be so technical a point that it goes everyone's heads, but the EXACT TIME of that text being read at 12:32 actually comes slightly AFTER the latest exact time that the cw can make for the mythical collision. (It looks the same, but it's actually a bit later.) So unless their new story is that KR hit JOK and he's sailing through the air from the vehicle strike that caused no real damage to him, and also checking his phone as he flies, their story has become chronologically impossible. (No, in this case, when they are using precision timing data, and would obviously make the times align if there was any way possible, "close" is not close enough. The cw is using contradictory data, offered by THEIR experts, demonstrably not prioritizing justice, and hoping the jury doesn't get the import.) But if the timeline doesn't fit, the jury must acquit!

WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE US? Based on what we are seeing in the testimony itself, a timeline that does fit looks like this:
1 JOK enters the house around 12:24, is attacked, then taken downstairs where there's no signal. ( Or, enters and opts to go downstairs and is incapacitated there, via some event Proctor didn't care to find out about.)
2 After JOK is attacked, JMc is sent to the window as a lookout, watching to see when KR has gone for sure, and sending various texts and calls to JOK's phone (which the attackers have in their hands) as a cover.
...There's something sketch about the contact at 12:27 -- she denied REPEATEDLY (and INSISTENTLY) in T2 under oath she ever made it, despite the absolute proof from the phone log (that she had personally tried to make disappear) that she did.
3 JMc did make a text at 12:32 to pull behind me, but it was sent as cover and read by someone else not JOK (because KR had to already have been long gone!).
4 The location signal reappears at 12:36, so either they took JOK back outside at 12:36, or they moved him somewhere else in the house, where there happened to be a better signal.
5 A few minutes after the location signal reappeared, starting at 12:41, JMc starts to oddly call/text JOK over and over in a very short time span, as if intentionally trying to create some sort of storyline.
... JMc later tells an insistent and repeated lie that KR was still there at those times she tried to contact his phone starting at 12:41, implying JOK would have been in her car and then struck a bit after 12:45 (to fit the early cw tale of events).

Given JMc's well-demonstrated propensity for creating stories and lies, it would fit to a tee that she was involved in this murder early on, most likely as a secondary accomplice to the coverup. That would help explain why she's so willing to lie and tell whatever new story is needed, from one hearing to the next. The one question we don't quite yet know: if JMc was the killer's Liar for Hire, who's the boss?

-------
* By 12:36 when the phone location reappears for whatever reason, not only is KR gone from sight, but she's already home by then. Based on distance and time to travel, she must have left about 12:29, but if the streets were slick, perhaps even earlier?
Given JMc's well-demonstrated propensity for creating stories and lies, it would fit to a tee that she was involved in this murder early on, most likely as a secondary accomplice to the coverup. That would help explain why she's so willing to lie and tell whatever new story is needed, from one hearing to the next. The one question we don't quite yet know: if JMc was the killer's Liar for Hire, who's the boss?

Early on??? how early on??? So to believe that and I'm not saying I don't believe it, WHY??? As the lady pharmacist witness said, JMc insisted that KR "come with me" So was Jen Mc enlisted to separate KR and JOK?? So that JOK could be 'dealt with' by one or more men and never go to BA house?? How would JMc explain to KR the whereabouts of JOK?? and if so what was the plan for KR?? BUT we know that KR and JOK were not separated and plan B needed to take over??
 
  • #742
Given JMc's well-demonstrated propensity for creating stories and lies, it would fit to a tee that she was involved in this murder early on, most likely as a secondary accomplice to the coverup. That would help explain why she's so willing to lie and tell whatever new story is needed, from one hearing to the next. The one question we don't quite yet know: if JMc was the killer's Liar for Hire, who's the boss?

Early on??? how early on??? So to believe that and I'm not saying I don't believe it, WHY??? As the lady pharmacist witness said, JMc insisted that KR "come with me" So was Jen Mc enlisted to separate KR and JOK?? So that JOK could be 'dealt with' by one or more men and never go to BA house?? How would JMc explain to KR the whereabouts of JOK?? and if so what was the plan for KR?? BUT we know that KR and JOK were not separated and plan B needed to take over??
For JMc to tell KR when she asked her why, it's a surprise! DISGUSTING. She is one sick, clearly person. IMO
 
  • #743
Where's the proof of that, not speculation, proof? There is none. It's seems it was KR who was out of control angry that night, those calls she made to John highlight that perfectly. KR was the one repeatedly saying she hit him, not the people in the house. There are other witnesses to that not just JM. Are they ALL lying? I don't believe so. JMO KR knew she'd hit John, she was angry and drunk. I don't believe it's second degree murder but I sure believe it's her doing, her fault. AJMO
You asked me why I thought JM was lying and what her motive was. I told you what I THOUGHT.

Now you want proof? Ask Michael Proctor about that, he botched the investigation and compromised the evidence so badly we will never know what truly happened.
 
  • #744
Total speculation and nothing more. There's been no evidence. But there's been a lot of evidence that KR is at fault. MO

There is zero physical evidence on John's body that he was struck by any vehicle.

And there was no taillight at the scene that morning. Not a single piece.

Taillight didn't show up until now fired and disgraced ex-Trooper Michael Proctor - the lead investigator and friend of the Alberts - got his hands on Read's vehicle.
 
  • #745
I'm fairly up to date and have read and watched a lot about the case. I believe JM is telling the truth and was wondering why the OP thought she was not. What evidence is there really tgat she's lying? I haven't seen it, just a lot of speculation with no nexus in fact. JMO
No. She was impeached just yesterday. You can say it's speculation if you want but that is a misrepresentation and untrue. Moo
 
  • #746
For the people insisting Jen McCabe is a lovely and honest person, I remind ya'll that she (reluctantly) admitted she lied to the FBI.

Why on earth would anyone lie to the FBI unless they had something really big to hide?
 
  • #747
No. She was impeached just yesterday. You can say it's speculation if you want but that is a misrepresentation and untrue. Moo
Lots of confirmed evidence, especially about not telling FBI when asked and warned to not lie, they found she def did lie about calls to her group. It is a long list, she is being found out through technology as well. A person has to actually watch in detail the witnesses on the stand from the trial 1. Reading about it a person misses A LOT, so not reliable information to form clear and critical thinking. IMO
 
  • #748
There is zero physical evidence on John's body that he was struck by any vehicle.

And there was no taillight at the scene that morning. Not a single piece.

Taillight didn't show up until now fired and disgraced ex-Trooper Michael Proctor - the lead investigator and friend of the Alberts - got his hands on Read's vehicle.
I think these two things can two things be true at once.
1: Karen hit John.
2: proctor is/was a lazy and shady investigator and planted the taillight pieces to ensure an airtight case against KR (which backfired spectacularly).

Edit: MOO, JMO, etc
 
  • #749
I think these two things can two things be true at once.
1: Karen hit John.
2: proctor is/was a lazy and shady investigator and planted the taillight pieces to ensure an airtight case against KR (which backfired spectacularly).

Edit: MOO, JMO, etc
Yes, but the best evidence is John's body and clothes. Injuries are not from a car. Probably from a dog bites, a bunch in the face, a laceration on the back of his head from a round object, and defensive wounds on his hand.
 
  • #750
I think these two things can two things be true at once.
1: Karen hit John.
2: proctor is/was a lazy and shady investigator and planted the taillight pieces to ensure an airtight case against KR (which backfired spectacularly).

Edit: MOO, JMO, etc

Proctor wouldn't have needed to plant taillight - even for the sake of personal convenience - if there had been a shred of physical evidence against Read. So I completely disagree with you.

Why wasn't the body of Read's vehicle damaged at all? John was a large man and his body was found 12 feet off the roadway.

Why are John O'Keefe's injuries completely inconsistent with a vehicle hit? Nothing at the scene could have caused the fatal head injury, which was small but very deep.

And nothing on a vehicle or at the scene could cause those parallel lacerations from his forearm to his upper arm. It is simply impossible.
 
  • #751
Judge not allowing C to be brought into this it sounded. Why not? Complicity, her. IMO
The court ruled, before T2 began, that CA cannot be considered as a third party culprit due to lack of evidence in T1.
 
  • #752
I think the whole motive is to protect one person, (who was a minor at the time) a person that the court is not allowed to bring into the case, CA. Something must've happened with him to cause John's injuries. A family protecting one of their own will do most anything.
Bingo!!
Especially if that someone has their whole life ahead of them, and had "issues" prior. Two of these people were not seen for two weeks after JOK's death, and one didn't even attend the funeral.
IMO, as always.
 
  • #753
There is also the connection between Jen's daughter, Allie, and Colin. They are very close, supposedly born a few days apart, so brought up together and very close. Allie gave Colin a ride home from 34 Fairview that night after the 1st person he called refused him a ride. Allie also lied and testified in T1 that they went straight home, yet there was much confusion over times w/her Lifetime 360 app, which somehow showed them riding around for over an hour afterward before going home. Why would Colin need to ride around for an hour before going home???
 
  • #754
Where's the proof of that, not speculation, proof? There is none. It's seems it was KR who was out of control angry that night, those calls she made to John highlight that perfectly. KR was the one repeatedly saying she hit him, not the people in the house. There are other witnesses to that not just JM. Are they ALL lying? I don't believe so. JMO KR knew she'd hit John, she was angry and drunk. I don't believe it's second degree murder but I sure believe it's her doing, her fault. AJMO

I agree with you.
KR was very drunk and trying to drive in a snowstorm. John was very drunk and trying to walk in a snowstorm. She accidentally hit him. A tragedy.
The biggest crime here is that the prosecutor over charged her. Murder implies intent which there absolutely was none that I can see. She should have been charged with whatever Massachusetts calls driving while intoxicated causing bodily harm or death.
KR and her attorneys should have been fighting to change the charges not spinning wild conspiracies. Some are saying people are lying to “save their own”, but KR et al are doing the same it seems to me.
What a mess. KR did not murder John, but she is responsible for his death.
Shame on the prosecutors and shame on the defense attorneys. That’s as I see it.

That’s just my opinion. I will now retire to my foxhole to await the incoming grenades that will be tossed my way.
 
  • #755
Great synopsis.

And absolute PANIC when FBI got involved.
Exactly. This crew doesn’t have the ins and/or influence with the FBI like they have with the locals.
 
  • #756
I agree with you.
KR was very drunk and trying to drive in a snowstorm. John was very drunk and trying to walk in a snowstorm. She accidentally hit him. A tragedy.
The biggest crime here is that the prosecutor over charged her. Murder implies intent which there absolutely was none that I can see. She should have been charged with whatever Massachusetts calls driving while intoxicated causing bodily harm or death.
KR and her attorneys should have been fighting to change the charges not spinning wild conspiracies. Some are saying people are lying to “save their own”, but KR et al are doing the same it seems to me.
What a mess. KR did not murder John, but she is responsible for his death.
Shame on the prosecutors and shame on the defense attorneys. That’s as I see it.

That’s just my opinion. I will now retire to my foxhole to await the incoming grenades that will be tossed my way.
It wasn't storming at that time. The snowstorm didn't really get going until around 9am. The weather report has been posted here several times.
IMO.
 
  • #757
I agree with you.
KR was very drunk and trying to drive in a snowstorm. John was very drunk and trying to walk in a snowstorm. She accidentally hit him. A tragedy.
The biggest crime here is that the prosecutor over charged her. Murder implies intent which there absolutely was none that I can see. She should have been charged with whatever Massachusetts calls driving while intoxicated causing bodily harm or death.
KR and her attorneys should have been fighting to change the charges not spinning wild conspiracies. Some are saying people are lying to “save their own”, but KR et al are doing the same it seems to me.
What a mess. KR did not murder John, but she is responsible for his death.
Shame on the prosecutors and shame on the defense attorneys. That’s as I see it.

That’s just my opinion. I will now retire to my foxhole to await the incoming grenades that will be tossed my way.
No grenades, just wondered if you watched the first trial and/or watching this trial?
 
  • #758
It wasn't storming at that time. The snowstorm didn't really get going until around 9am. The weather report has been posted here several times.
IMO.

True. It was just lightly snowing all night.

I live a few miles away from Fairview and remember that next morning well. A big storm had been predicted overnight but by 6:30 am it hadn't yet materialized. I remember being surprised looking out at that time and seeing cars in the driveways that hardly had any snow on them. I'd been hoping to visit a family member in the hosptial and thought, hey, maybe I can do this after all.

We did end up with over 2.5 feet, but it did not begin in earnest until after around the time JO's body was found.
 
  • #759
KR was very drunk and trying to drive in a snowstorm. John was very drunk and trying to walk in a snowstorm. She accidentally hit him. A tragedy.

The only part of that fairlytale that can actually be proven is that there was a snowstorm.

Kind of leaves a giant hole in your plot, doesn't it?
 
  • #760
I agree with you.
KR was very drunk and trying to drive in a snowstorm. John was very drunk and trying to walk in a snowstorm. She accidentally hit him. A tragedy.
The biggest crime here is that the prosecutor over charged her. Murder implies intent which there absolutely was none that I can see. She should have been charged with whatever Massachusetts calls driving while intoxicated causing bodily harm or death.
KR and her attorneys should have been fighting to change the charges not spinning wild conspiracies. Some are saying people are lying to “save their own”, but KR et al are doing the same it seems to me.
What a mess. KR did not murder John, but she is responsible for his death.
Shame on the prosecutors and shame on the defense attorneys. That’s as I see it.

That’s just my opinion. I will now retire to my foxhole to await the incoming grenades that will be tossed my way.

Respecting your opinion! Thanks for sharing. I too, initially thought this was a strange case with charging KR for Murder vs Accident. The justice system in MA is under fire for the over charging in my view.
But, in saying this..I still cannot come to the agreement that the CW has proof that KR hit him with her vehicle. John O'Keefe's autopsy photos prove ( to myself) that there is no way a vehicle strike killed him. His body screams " I was in a fight, and I lost".

Peace!
 
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