MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #26 Retrial

[missy1974]

I wish we could see the reports.

The CW theory seems to be now that she clipped him, possibly him hitting his head on the top spoiler part of her SUV? Still doesn't explain the scratches/marks on his arms, and if the force was hard enough to cause the head injury it did, how did he not have more injuries. And still requires some dancing for him to get to where he was .. AND take pieces of the tail light with him.

 

[kuromiiiilove]

*COULD HAVE BEEN

isn’t that exactly what Karen Read said?

“What if I clipped him in the knee”
IMO

Red herring.

ETA: Dr. Scordi-Bello testified today that she had heard about LE’s theory and Karen’s statements/alleged statements. It did not change the fact that she did not rule that John was hit by a vehicle.

 

[mzmarymac]

But then she said, the Lexus coulda clipped him
Causing the leg injury

Not such a little bruise if ya ask me & the knee aligns with the back bumper

IMO

Could have = Reasonable doubt. At this point, even you must agree.

 

[Soulmagent]

I wish we could see the reports.

The CW theory seems to be now that she clipped him, possibly him hitting his head on the top spoiler part of her SUV? Still doesn't explain the scratches/marks on his arms, and if the force was hard enough to cause the head injury it did, how did he not have more injuries. And still requires some dancing for him to get to where he was .. AND take pieces of the tail light with him.

So he is facing the truck and just waiting for it to hit him in reverse dead in the face? Everyone agrees the light worked then so he should of saw it coming.

 

[mzmarymac]

Last trial IMO wasn’t presented nearly as well and there were still 9 jurors ready to convict IIRC

They were only split on Murder 2. They voted 12-0 for acquittal on the other 2. And I respectfully disagree. Lally may have been horrible, but they somehow managed to make this trial and even bigger debacle. JMO

 

[Angelwatch]

The ME considered the abrasions on his arm superficial. Even ignoring their timing issues, the CW wants us to believe he was hit by an SUV with enough force that it threw him out of his shoe, shattered the tail light into 47 pieces, but only left superficial abrasions and no bruising. How did this case get prosecuted?

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

I think even if they were civs, they could have easily come up with the same ‘plan’. Really, not much of a plan at all is needed. And IMO it’s not like they had everything nailed down, we see the cover up forming with the early suggestions that John was hit by a snow plow. I think Karen’s hysteria was just a convenient way to pivot. All IMO.

“Let’s whip John’s as soon as he gets here” doesn’t take too long to say and would probably easily be agreed to by a bunch of drunk dudes —cops or not. JMO

 

[mzmarymac]

I'm sorry, but this trial is an absolute s***show. How in the world did they manage to do a worse job this time around than the first trial??? It is painfully obvious that the CW case is falling apart at the seems and they are just trying to stop the bleeding. Speaking of bleeding, ain't no way no how those injuries to his arm are anything other than Chloe attacking him. To me, the arm is the most important and clear cut piece of evidence in the entire trial.

That said...does anyone know whatever happened to the original whistleblower from the case that told the story about the fight, the dog, etc...

 

[sunflowermomma]

I recently saw a photo of a dog attack on a child's arm and I thought it was the photos of John Okeefe's arm at first. His arm wounds really look exactly like a dog attack. There is no way that a car or fall in the snow could have caused those tears. MOO

 

[missy1974]

So he is facing the truck and just waiting for it to hit him in reverse dead in the face? Everyone agrees the light worked then so he should of saw it coming.

I'm not saying it happened that way, I just think that is what the CW is going to say based on some of the questions they have asked. Asking about that top part of the back of the car... asking about 'clipping' him...

I honestly don't find any scenario that fits neatly, and all scenarios have some major reasonable doubt. Her hitting him doesn't make sense, her clipping him doesn't make sense, even the fight in the house doesn't make sense, I can find problems with just about every scenario. Add in all the shady behaviour after JOK died ( and I probably only know a little bit because I don't want to go down those rabbit holes lol), it just adds to the reasonable doubt that KR did anything at all that night.

 

[missy1974]

Locals from MA or I guess anyone with knowledge....

IF a dog attacks a person on your property or IF someone falls and hits their head on your property, or I guess a dog attacks and causes a fall resulting in banging their head and dying even if they are drunk as a skunk... could you be held liable?

This is a scenario that I could see, and would account for the Mc/A's shady behaviour afterwards.

JMO

ETA: Even in this scenario, I can find holes in it LOL Nothing fits neatly.

 

[HarmonyE.]

Locals from MA or I guess anyone with knowledge....

IF a dog attacks a person on your property or IF someone falls and hits their head on your property, or I guess a dog attacks and causes a fall resulting in banging their head and dying even if they are drunk as a skunk... could you be held liable?

This is a scenario that I could see, and would account for the Mc/A's shady behaviour afterwards.

JMO

ETA: Even in this scenario, I can find holes in it LOL Nothing fits neatly.

Dog owners in MA are always strictly in liable for injuries caused by their dog. But this would only be civil liability, not criminal, and something that would be handled by the dog owner's homeowner's policy.

IMO, It would be an over-reaction of enormous proportions to cover up a dog attack that resulted in a visitor's death. While it seems pretty obvious that John's arm injuries were Chloe's handiwork, I do not think she's the one who caused the head injury.

 

[Malleeboy]

Dog owners in MA are always strictly in liable for injuries caused by their dog. But this would only be civil liability, not criminal, and something that would be handled by the dog owner's homeowner's policy.

IMO, It would be an over-reaction of enormous proportions to cover up a dog attack that resulted in a visitor's death. While it seems pretty obvious that John's arm injuries were Chloe's handiwork, I do not think she's the one who caused the head injury.

Dog attack may lead to a fall, that caused head injuries, JoK may have also hit dog with right hand and caused bruises. We just don't know..

 

[HarmonyE.]

Dog attack may lead to a fall, that caused head injuries, JoK may have also hit dog with right hand and caused bruises. We just don't know..

My point was that I doubt there would be a cover up if Chloe was the sole reason JO died. As awful as it would be, unless the dog was trained and commanded to kill, the dog owner wouldn't be held criminally liable. Civil damages only. Not worth risking prision time over.

 

[KSwizzle]

Last trial IMO wasn’t presented nearly as well and there were still 9 jurors ready to convict IIRC

I respectfully couldn't disagree more, Brennan's coaching including but not limited to saying you don't remember anything unless it helps the CW, straight up lying under oath, and being intentionally obtuse is MOO absolutely being seen by the jury, this trial has been way worse for the CW than the first one, all my own opinions but I believe you will see a NG on this one.

Brennan will have to go back to the drawing board for the third trial at the very least if it's hung, which I am leaning it won't be.

 

[TDoc72]

It's not that the plan was hard to come up with but that it would have had to have been immediate.

BH was running around the police station about an hour later— 1:35ish am from the vids IIRC.
IMO I don’t think they planned to blame KR. I think they wanted him out of the house for whatever reason. But I don’t have all the answers and the public probably never will, which is sad. I do think JOK deserves justice and for his loved ones to know what happened, but I don’t think KR is the answer.

 

[HarmonyE.]

BH was running around the police station about an hour later— 1:35ish am from the vids IIRC.

Running around with no apparent purpose. Last time he testified he went there instead of returning to his home in West Roxbury so he could "move cars around".

So maybe he moonlighted as the property manager during storms. But now we see the video of him coming and going without moving cars around.

Can't wait for the defense to call him. Unless he was dropping something off or picking something up at the Canton PD, he had no purpose there. What would he have been getting or dumping there?

 

[tara83]

I respectfully couldn't disagree more, Brennan's coaching including but not limited to saying you don't remember anything unless it helps the CW, straight up lying under oath, and being intentionally obtuse is MOO absolutely being seen by the jury, this trial has been way worse for the CW than the first one, all my own opinions but I believe you will see a NG on this one.

Brennan will have to go back to the drawing board for the third trial at the very least if it's hung, which I am leaning it won't be.

What a nightmare if we have a third trial.

 

[TDoc72]

Running around with no apparent purpose. Last time he testified he went there instead of returning to his home in West Roxbury so he could "move cars around".

So maybe he moonlighted as the property manager during storms. But now we see the video of him coming and going without moving cars around.

Can't wait for the defense to call him. Unless he was dropping something off or picking something up at the Canton PD, he had no purpose there. What would he have been getting or dumping there?

LOL…I originally typed running around doing God knows what but then deleted that part. I can’t figure out what he was doing there either or how it fits into the gang’s plan, but it’s super shady for sure IMO.

 

[ShadyLady]

Running around with no apparent purpose. Last time he testified he went there instead of returning to his home in West Roxbury so he could "move cars around".

So maybe he moonlighted as the property manager during storms. But now we see the video of him coming and going without moving cars around.

Can't wait for the defense to call him. Unless he was dropping something off or picking something up at the Canton PD, he had no purpose there. What would he have been getting or dumping there?

And what was the purpose of opening two other car's doors? and putting on their lights? Very suspicious, and why lie about it?

After he moved his own car, some minutes later he came back. Probably thought his friends at Canton would lose the tape of when he came back and stayed till 1:45am and then drove off in his jeep.

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