MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #27 Retrial

[Spider92]

I can’t believe they don’t hold court on weekends…what am I supposed to do today? Clean the house? Mow the lawn?

 

[Izzylizzy]

Live now:

LIVE! Read Trial 2 Day 17: Unbelievable Order​

Peter just started addressing Cannone's order.

 

[Angelwatch]

RSBM

I think the jury will infer, whatever happened to John, happened at approx 12.32 when his phone stopped moving forever, he ceased answered any messages/calls, and his phone remained in pocket state for 1000s of events.

The BITS version itself presupposes this i.e John goes inside immediately he arrives at 12.24 - then his phone goes dead just 8 mins later. Karens version implies that the reason he did not come out, is because he'd been attacked.

So I do think the D is, in practical terms, also committed to 12.32.

MOO

The 12:32 timing may end up helping the defense since KR was connected to home Wi-Fi at 12:36. Unless the CW claims “clock drift” with the home Wi-Fi as well.

 

[Forest_Wood]

I admit I did not know this and have used "lawyer" and "attorney" interchangeably.
And for some crazy reason I just looked to see if there is a difference.
Huge difference. lol

Is There a Difference Between a Lawyer and an Attorney?

What is the difference between a lawyer and an attorney? Find out once and for all in this blog post.

www.clio.com

So, an attorney may represent a person in court, while a lawyer may not?

 

[Angelwatch]

I missed part of Vallier’s testimony yesterday. How many pieces of taillight didn’t match KR’s Lexus? Was Vallier saying she couldn’t puzzle piece the extra pieces back but they still belonged to the Lexus? Or that the pieces are from another vehicle?

 

[Warwick7]

Sure - I discussed it in more detail yesterday with the timestamp (Alessi argues before and after Brennan). However they then had another motions hearing about this yesterday.

I was most interested that he said that case turns on mere seconds. Especially he says that the defence strategy was effectuated (i.e in cross) on those fine timings. Especially the cross of Whiffin. So were the defence saying that Cycle 1162 is on a different day, none of this would matter. Of course we do need to allow for the fact that the defence can argue in the alternative, but IMO it sounds like the CW have strong evidence that 1162 is the F34 trip.

I think the most relevant part starts at 2 hours 22.

MOO

Ok....I'm confused....

You said in bold "So were the defence saying that Cycle 1162 is on a different day, none of this would matter."

Ummm yes it would matter. It would matter a great deal.

During T1 the key cycle when KR supposedly hit John occurred after MSP seized the vehicle. The vehicle data indicated no collision occurred when Karen had the car.

On top of that driving 24 mph in reverse, at night, on a curved road, while it's snowing, for 60 ft, is impossible. M00

 

[Soulmagent]

The 12:32 timing may end up helping the defense since KR was connected to home Wi-Fi at 12:36. Unless the CW claims “clock drift” with the home Wi-Fi as well.

If her EDR showed a battery dying in her car ,that data is useless. The defense in a normal case would have to search to confirm his new correct finding are valid. They have no time to do that.
They are trying to compare map quest data on Johns phone to her Lexus clock. All that information was a mess in the first place.
phone says = John went up stairs = reports says oh could have been a hilly road.
phones says search made at 232 =Jens say no it was 6 am. =
Phone say Kr was on Wifi =CW says = she was 4 miles away running over John.

 

[Warwick7]

The 12:32 timing may end up helping the defense since KR was connected to home Wi-Fi at 12:36. Unless the CW claims “clock drift” with the home Wi-Fi as well.

This is exactly what I keep coming back to. It is a solid fact that KR was connected to JO's home Wi-Fi at 12:36.

 

[missy1974]

Sure - I discussed it in more detail yesterday with the timestamp (Alessi argues before and after Brennan). However they then had another motions hearing about this yesterday.

I was most interested that he said that case turns on mere seconds. Especially he says that the defence strategy was effectuated (i.e in cross) on those fine timings. Especially the cross of Whiffin. So were the defence saying that Cycle 1162 is on a different day, none of this would matter. Of course we do need to allow for the fact that the defence can argue in the alternative, but IMO it sounds like the CW have strong evidence that 1162 is the F34 trip.

I think the most relevant part starts at 2 hours 22.

MOO

I just briefly listened again and I don't understand how you think Alessi is saying that Cycle 1162 is during that time period?

Alessi points out to the judge that Welcher (Aperture) has the 1162 cycle at a specific time 12:38-12:43, saying that seconds DO matter. (on another note... Welcher says12:38-43??? lol I don't understand that one either lol)

His argument to me is all about the timing of his last phone usage/KR hitting him and what the CW has said up until now, and we are close to the end of the CW case, they are now "changing" their timeline and Alessi is saying.. #1 that after they cross examined witnesses, they know they are wrong and have changed it. #2 they have asked questions of witnesses with that original timeline or that they didn't ask questions because of it. #3 ARCCA needs to be able to look at this new report.

 

[missy1974]

Ok....I'm confused....

You said in bold "So were the defence saying that Cycle 1162 is on a different day, none of this would matter."

Ummm yes it would matter. It would matter a great deal.

During T1 the key cycle when KR supposedly hit John occurred after MSP seized the vehicle. The vehicle data indicated no collision occurred when Karen had the car.

On top of that driving 24 mph in reverse, at night, on a curved road, while it's snowing, for 60 ft, is impossible. M00

I may have to go back and watch that testimony, but IIRC the reversing and 3 point turn stuff... Cycle 1162, it seemed pretty clear (to some lol) it was when they put the car on the tow truck, no?

 

[keek]

Desperation on the CW part. Brennan seemed to have lost control of himself Friday. A spectacle in front of the jury as the witness had answered and had integrity in her answer. End of. IMO

 

[missy1974]

If her EDR showed a battery dying in her car ,that data is useless. The defense in a normal case would have to search to confirm his new correct finding are valid. They have no time to do that.
They are trying to compare map quest data on Johns phone to her Lexus clock. All that information was a mess in the first place.
phone says = John went up stairs = reports says oh could have been a hilly road.
phones says search made at 232 =Jens say no it was 6 am. =
Phone say Kr was on Wifi =CW says = she was 4 miles away running over John.

Most of the cases I have followed, there is never a question about the timing of cell phones and I don't recall ever having to figure out "drifting", etc.

I feel like they are coming up with whatever they have to, to make it "fit" the narrative. And in the end, have still not proven he was hit by a car.

JMO

Edited for clarity.

 

[cocomod]

Bottom line, an arm would not break the taillight and taillight “shards” would not make round holes in his sweater. He didn’t crawl to his final resting spot. He was not hit by a car as proven by the ME and logical science IMO

 

[kuromiiiilove]

Bottom line, an arm would not break the taillight and taillight “shards” would not make round holes in his sweater. He didn’t crawl to his final resting spot. He was not hit by a car as proven by the ME and logical science IMO

If investigators truly thought Johns arm wounds were caused by Karen’s tail light, they would have swabbed the shards found at Fairview. Instead, they swabbed none. MOO

 

[ShadyLady]

Bottom line, an arm would not break the taillight and taillight “shards” would not make round holes in his sweater. He didn’t crawl to his final resting spot. He was not hit by a car as proven by the ME and logical science IMO

Exactly.
If I were on the jury, "times" would be less important, John's wounds and how they were made would be more important.

 

[rescuemom]

Since his stated reason for being there was a lie, what WAS he doing there? Getting something? Or was he disposing of something connected with Brian Albert's residence? Would Kevin Albert's car have been one of those in the lot?

It was grainy so if I saw it correctly it seemed like he was going back and forth to a truck. Who owns the truck? Why has that not been mentioned?

 

[nodamselindistress]

It was grainy so if I saw it correctly it seemed like he was going back and forth to a truck. Who owns the truck? Why has that not been mentioned?

I believe it was Higgins' truck. He had multiple vehicles that he parked at Canton PD.

 

[rescuemom]

No one would know this except some of the parties involved that should know this. Not the public. General public. IMO

I hope it is not over.

 

[Forest_Wood]

Starting around 3:45:15

Cannone found that the defense has not persuaded her of unfair prejudice or undue surprise of this information and she didn't find there was late disclosure. Even though there will be no voir dire, Cannone has made it clear that she will allow the defense "ample game for cross examination" of Mr Burgess (what he knew, what he looked at, why he looked at it, when he looked at it, why he changed his report, violation of the sequestration order). She has every confidence that Mr Alessi can perform a fulsome cross examination, but after the direct examination, if Alessi demonstrates he needs further time, she will hear him on that. If Alessi feels that the testimony of JMc and others is critical to re-examine, she will also hear him on that.

We're seeing brilliant minds at work here. I have every confidence in the defense team being able to illustrate what they need to for the jury to fully comprehend what has occurred here due to the CW changing the timing to fit its case. The cross examination will lay it out in the open for the jury to dissect. I think this will even benefit the defense to further show what a mess the CW has made of this case.

JMO

 

[rescuemom]

I’m still waiting for a single shred of evidence that points to John OKeefe being murdered in the house
<modsnip>

All imo

So are we. Sadly through the corruption and incompetence from the very beginning and I'm not even talking about the 911 call we will never know. IMO, there were parties that knew as soon as JOK was severely injured, what needed to be done, messed with and followed up with to prevent any justice for JOK.