MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #29 Retrial

[Warwick7]

Why are their experts contradicting each other???

Dr Wolf the surgeon said, first impact was the back of John's head. This guy today claims the first impact was his arm bouncing off the rear end of her car because he was standing near the curb. He then fell backward from the impact.

 

[Morag]

Am I the only one who thinks this group of 40-something adults are reminiscent of a group of middle schoolers? Oh, do you like me? I think (man’s name) likes you! Let’s all go to a bar and get totally blitzed, then let’s drive drunkenly to someone’s house and drink a lot more. Hope (woman’s name) doesn’t come tonight. She has cooties!
O’Keefe’s death is so tragic, but this crowd is so juvenile. MOO

 

[Angelwatch]

Exactly ! And, for cryin out loud! Be a scientist. Be an expert. NOT an actor, who 'dresses up' like the victim. This is all drama. Brennan drama.
IMO

What a joke! He actually asked to put on the hat he used in the testing. Maybe do some math. Figure out the speed range by working backwards on the force required to shatter the tail light. You're a reconstructionist. Stop with the dress up. You're embarrassing yourself.

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

Exactly ! And, for cryin out loud! Be a scientist. Be an expert. NOT an actor, who 'dresses up' like the victim. This is all drama. Brennan drama.
IMO

 

[Izzylizzy]

Why are their experts contradicting each other???

Dr Wolf the surgeon said, first impact was the back of John's head. This guy today claims the first impact was his arm bouncing off the rear end of her car because he was standing near the curb. He then fell backward from the impact.

I was waiting to see Welcher jump on a little trampoline.
lol

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

And that is why we need to hear from the ARCCA guys! They did the math!

Not according to some.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Exactly ! And, for cryin out loud! Be a scientist. Be an expert. NOT an actor, who 'dresses up' like the victim. This is all drama. Brennan drama.
IMO

His dress up is morbidly sick and highly offensive/insensitive.
imo

 

[waldojabba]

Idk. It is bizarre. Is it an accurate reenactment? Obviously not. Most notably Welcher didn’t end up thrown 30 feet with the back of his head smashed in per the CW theory. But somehow it is supposed to accurately show the position of his body when his arm is lightly brushed in circumstances completely unlike the actual ones. Ridiculous.

ETA: actually not even sure what the current CW theory is. But if his body moves out of harms way when his arm is glanced by the car as “proven”, then I really don’t know how KR is to blame for anything other than arm scratches.

The more I think about Dr Welcher's performance and data today, the more incredulous I get. Is this the best and brightest Aperture has? Is he truly finished with his testimony and ready for cross ?

Where is all the missing science?

Did this dude truly get dressed up like John in the same clothes John died in? Did he think he was involved in some kind of weird cosplay thing? A high school physics contest?

I am once again embarrassed for the CW and outraged as a tax payer.
And Alessi has not even begun pointing out the woefull ineptitde of what was presented. SMH

JMO

 

[lohrtabitha]

Like what was that supposed to prove? That Karen’s vehicle had ragged edges? Wouldn’t the paint be more consistent with a bruise than cuts?

That guy is making so much money, he should have busted the taillight just like KRs and then ran into it with his bare arm. That would have been a more reasonable and more entertaining approach. A little bit of pain for maybe(probably not because Chloe did it) a better gain. Lol. Moo

 

[cocomod]

Asking for information please. I haven’t followed this case with much attention except to know that this is the second trial. It’s very confusing to pop in to. I’m curious to know why some think she is not guilty and some think she is.
It seems that her car couldn’t have killed him and yet she was worried she had hit him. So can both sides give me brief explanations of why you think she is guilty or not guilty. I’d really appreciate a list of points on either side, so I can follow the rest of the trial without going nuts. Thank you in advance.

@Lilibet , I would like to answer this. This answer is IMHO as I have followed T1 and T2!

I believe that KR is innocent based on T1 and solidified in T1. I came in to this believing she was guilty, but the evidence has guided me to NG. I also believe that the burden of proof to provide evidence BARD has not been met.

• The biggest burden that the CW should have is to prove that KR hit OJO with her car. They have failed to do that in either trial. Strangely enough, there is no eye witness – even though the house had people coming and going at all hours of that night.
• The CW’s own ME refused to say that his death was a homicide. She also testified and agreed that this body didn’t have the “normal” injuries consistent with a motor vehicle / pedestrian strike. Reasonable Doubt
• The lead investigator in this case immediately decided she was guilty and within 24 hours had texted multiple people horrible things about her.
• In trial 1, it was proven that their theory regarding the key strokes was deeply flawed. It was proven that that if we used their theory, the key stroke in question regarding the backing up of her vehicle at 24 mph would have happened in LE custody. Reasonable Doubt
• The fact that when they found OJO’s body, the LE that lived in the house didn’t even come out of the house is a huge stickler to me. WHO wouldn’t go outside when there is a ton of commotion including an ambulance??? This is just unbelievable to me. WHY? Because he knew that there was a dead or almost dead body, and he didn’t want to be involved. This isn’t evidence against KR, but it does go to the defense’s heart of an alternate suspect theory. Reasonable Doubt
• Why didn't ANYONE see the body on the lawn? Jen was looking out the window watching for OJO. Other people left and didn't see a body?? Lucky didn't see a body?? Noone driving by saw a body?? Reasonable Doubt
• The multiple people from the party that night have lied under oath. I cannot imagine this happening, but we are all watching it happen! Jen is the worst offender, but they all have not been able to keep their stories straight. This makes me disbelieve Jen’s version of the night – with good reason. Reasonable Doubt
• The person that started all of the KR is guilty is a proven liar. Jen lied to the FBI! She admitted that her husband told her she needed to fix that. She had a text on her phone that is questionable. Her version of that night was not given to LE that night, her “version” of KR’s words that night was not given to the grand jury (most important), her “version” was told to Kerry, but Kerry didn’t hear that herself. Other people did note that she said “Did I hit him”? That is a far cry from an exclamation of guilt. In fact, I have come to believe that she is their biggest actor in this farce of a trial. I have come to believe that she is the reason that KR is on trial at all. She started it all. Why did she make 200 phone calls in the days after his death? Sounds extremely like collusion to me. Let’s all get our stories straight so that she is the one that goes to jail, not our loved one. Reasonable Doubt
• The blunt force trauma to the back of OJO’s head cannot be explained by a vehicle strike. The CW hasn’t even TRIED to explain it. That contusion disabled him immediately according to the ME. It is very, very high on the back of his head. It is not consistent with him falling backwards on to a lawn. The ground is not hard enough. Dr. Wolf even cannot explain a vehicle strike causing this injury. Reasonable Doubt
• Let’s talk about Proctor… He was the lead investigator. He had severe bias as shown in his text messages. This caused a narrow focus – heck a single focus of his investigation. The home owner was LE, so he didn’t go in to the home to investigate. He didn’t interview any of the people involved at the police station on the record. He allowed multiple people in the room to answer questions together. He told people that the home owner had no reason to worry – because he is LE. Ummmm… let’s talk about the now ex-chief of police in jail for rape, murder, and now escaped from jail??? LE are not above the law or beyond being able to commit a crime! Not a reason not to investigate!! Reasonable Doubt
• Let’s talk about true reasonable doubt made by the LE!! Their collected evidence in red solo cups and a grocery bag from a neighbor?! They didn’t document and record their evidence as they should have. Starting that night! They didn’t document where his body was found and what position exactly. I would throw the taillight pieces out with the trash! Those red pieces were not found that night when his body was found, even though a few clear pieces of glass were found. The snow was not very deep when he was found, it was deeper later that day. The crime scene was NOT secured after he was found; and “evidence” was found over multiple weeks??? Not buying what they are selling. Plus, where is the CHAIN OF CUSTODY? The shirt being left out for weeks, the taillight pieces growing in number (possibly shattered in the evidence bag), the shoes during T2 being described differently, but they were the same shoe?! The lead investigator was fired for his conduct during this investigation! Reasonable Doubt
• John’s phone data shows that he locked his car AFTER KR left the scene. This cannot be stressed enough! If he was incapacitated by the head strike, and she didn’t cause the head strike, she is not guilty. This fact again was proven by the CW witness. Reasonable Doubt
• OJO’s injuries were inconsistent with a vehicle strike. He has no bruising. Say it again for those in the back. He has NO bruising!! This just doesn’t happen with a vehicle strike! Even IF she side-swiped his arm, his arm would be bruised, not cut! The gashes on his arm were not investigated by either the ME or the LE in this case. Why not?? Isn’t this part of a dead man’s story? This is a huge deal for the CW’s case to me as well. If they had come out in the very beginning and said that a neighbor’s dog must have chewed on him when he was laying there incapacitated, then at least an explanation would be there. The CW’s only explanation is that the broken taillight did it?!!! Look at his shirt. There are very concise holes in his shirt that line up with the injuries. There is no explanation for the taillight to make long marks like that. The holes line up more with teeth and claws. Science as well as good ole fashion common sense. Reasonable Doubt
• The “witnesses” all “butt-dialed” each other multiple times… Say what?! This doesn’t even make sense. I would rather that they get on the stand and say that they are all swingers and were all checking in on each other’s wives. Come on! Where was the investigation in to ANY of the other party goers? One was trying to have an affair with KR. There is motive and there was opportunity! LE didn’t even try to look in to any of this information. Why weren’t the 2 that threw away and completely destroyed their phones questioned? There is a reason they completely destroyed their phones, and it doesn’t have any innocent explanation. Reasonable Doubt
• In T2, the CW’s witness changed his report by design because Brennan asked him to! This same witness lied on his resume; he did not have a degree. He admits he talked to people to get the story. IMO he made his report to match what story they wanted to tell. Reasonable Doubt
• The FBI was investigating LE and the DA in this case. The FBI hired a company to do a reconstruction of the events. This company came to the conclusion that OJO was NOT hit by a vehicle. They were professional and they truly had “no dog in the fight”. They didn’t even know what case they were investigating. Their report to me was completely scientific and unbiased. I believe their findings 100%. I cannot wait for their testimony in T2!! They will blow these CW witnesses out of the water in my opinion. Reasonable Doubt
• All of the LE in this case were drunk that night! The are several people from the house that have a history of violence. The dog had a history of violence! There are other suspects, and they were all given a pass and not investigated! Reasonable Doubt
• The home owner went about life as usual until the defense decided to dig! They believed that no investigation would be done because “the home owner is a Boston cop”. However, once someone tipped off the defense that there might be an actual suspect, they sold their home. Not only that, they replaced the carpet, but even more suspect, they tore up the concrete in the basement. Who does that?! They replaced their bulk-head door. Who does that?? I cannot think of ANY logical reason to tear up the concrete in a basement. None at all! Reasonable Doubt
• The LE called to the stand in T2 refused to answer simple questions. I have heard about defense witness acting obtuse, but these LE witnesses refusing to answer a simple question caused me to stop. Using a word and within minutes asking for the definition of said word because the defense attorney used it. This is just one small example. The fact that Jen changed her testimony from T1 to T2. Usually this is a punishable offense! You cannot lie under oath and she was caught multiple times! Refusing to admit what was said previously during T1 or during the grand jury. The fact that LE is trying to rewrite history and not admit that Proctor was the lead investigator. Reasonable Doubt
• Noone is talking about his body temperature. I am concerned that his temperature was too high when he was found if he was there all night.
• The fact that they canNOT reconstruct in a reasonable fashion a way that KR hit OJO with her vehicle and killed him - without anyone seeing - without causing bodily damage. They cannot even hire a reconstructionist to agree that KR killed him without reasonable doubt says everything we need to know about this case. Their own medical specialist cannot say he was hit by a vehicle.

This would have nothing to do with reasonable doubt, but I hard core cannot believe that the CW brought in a "special" prosecutor when the first jury was pretty obvious that they had doubts. I also cannot believe that when they received the FBI report, they buried it! They received a report that blew a hole in their case, and they not only ignored it, they buried it. They had the report that honestly proves her innocence, and it didn't say what they wanted it to say. The fact that Proctor was fired didn't slow down their train as they go down the wrong tracks.

 

[Izzylizzy]

53 minutes in.
Live

EDIT:
It;s still live so my timestamp is useless.

 

[keek]

His dress up is morbidly sick and highly offensive/insensitive.
imo

I thought so, it was offensive and I am not KR nor his family, no matter how believing she hit him they are. IMO

 

[missy1974]

That guy is making so much money, he should have busted the taillight just like KRs and then ran into it with his bare arm. That would have been a more reasonable and more entertaining approach. A little bit of pain for maybe(probably not because Chloe did it) a better gain. Lol. Moo

You would think he has a crash test dummy arm.... 3d print the taillight as it was shown in the photos or use your handy dandy scanner thingy and get it done... or maybe they didn't want to do that? Hmm

 

[Angelwatch]

You would think he has a crash test dummy arm.... 3d print the taillight as it was shown in the photos or use your handy dandy scanner thingy and get it done... or maybe they didn't want to do that? Hmm

I mean, they bought a whole Lexus for testing. Sounds like they had an unlimited budget. They could have bought extra tail lights for testing. IMO, I think it’s missing because they haven’t been able to replicate it.

 

[cocomod]

I mean, they bought a whole Lexus for testing. Sounds like they had an unlimited budget. They could have bought extra tail lights for testing. IMO, I think it’s missing because they haven’t been able to replicate it.

Maybe they did test it and it didn't give them the answer they sought? Therefore, leave that test out of their testimony

 

[Spider92]

I thought the thing with the fake paint on his arm was clever. Great visual.

 

[Soulmagent]

I thought the thing with the fake paint on his arm was clever. Great visual.

It made me wonder if next they will have him in a Chloe dog suit ,showing a molded set of dog dentures and his how it doest work.
John will be played by Burgess.

 

[Izzylizzy]

I thought so, it was offensive and I am not KR nor his family, no matter how believing she hit him they are. IMO

Did he match JOK's underwear too?
Sicko.
imo

 

[Izzylizzy]

I mean, they bought a whole Lexus for testing. Sounds like they had an unlimited budget. They could have bought extra tail lights for testing. IMO, I think it’s missing because they haven’t been able to replicate it.

Welcher should have hired a stunt man who would bounce for him. /s
imo

 

[keek]

I mean, they bought a whole Lexus for testing. Sounds like they had an unlimited budget. They could have bought extra tail lights for testing. IMO, I think it’s missing because they haven’t been able to replicate it.

The taxpayers of MA are paying for that along with the prosecution. So many other places to put that much needed money here. IMO