MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #31 Retrial

[sunshineray]

BBM and JMc changed her story. She never told investigators at the time about Karen’s “I hit himx3”, she still didn’t when she testified before the grand jury. Now she suddenly remembers and has embellished her testimony for trials. Lots of changing stories in this case I’d say.

But JM is not the defendant who changed her story of not seeing John go in the house to a detailed account of seeing him go inside the house...along with creating a defense centered on blaming LE, on duty and off-duty, for everything that happened to JO. All that occurring after KR's arrest. AJMO

 

[lohrtabitha]

It's seems the defense desperately wants to get more of Proctor's texts in evidence...the "Chip" texts. But instead of calling Proctor and destroying him on the stand they want to bring in some random friend of his (who only had one late hour text in the specific KR convo) to read the "Chip" texts. Doesn't it seem for some reason the defense doesn't want Proctor on the stand to be lambasted in front of the jury? I don't know why because that would seem like a win-win for the defense, no? JMO

If they did call him, he would probably plead the 5th amendment or be an extremely loose canon. So, by adding the 4 new witnesses , the defense can have them simply read the texts that Proctor sent to them. This is the win-win. IMO

 

[Warwick7]

Love the phone messages “Where are you”????

After she just dropped him off.

And seriously, who thinks she wouldn’t have been pounding on the Albert’s door when he didn’t turn up instead of calling everyone pressing she had NO IDEA where he was and LYING saying she left him at the Waterfall?

All in my opinion

"Where are you" sounds pretty legit and practical to me.

After listening to testimony in T1 and T2 it's clear they were invited to attend an after party at 34F. They had never been there before and they had been invited by the homeowner's sister. Thus why JO had to call Jen to get directions again.

John wasn't just dropped off. In my opinion or assumption he and KR agreed, because the house was mostly dark when they drove up, that he would go check if indeed they were welcome.

He was supposed to come out to get her or let her know by text that the after party was indeed happening. So, when he didn't let her know either way she first was frustrated but then became angry...like who wouldn't if their boyfriend just went inside and started partying leaving them to sit out in the car waiting?

In M00 she didn't really know these people so she wasn't comfortable just going in. Besides, if you match timelines, it appears a couple of people left during the time KR was sitting out there waiting for a signal from JO.

 

[Warwick7]

BBM and JMc changed her story. She never told investigators at the time about Karen’s “I hit himx3”, she still didn’t when she testified before the grand jury. Now she suddenly remembers and has embellished her testimony for trials. Lots of changing stories in this case I’d say.

Yep changed her story. Lied. Lied. Lied. And that is the gist of the CW's theory, it is based on lies.

 

[Warwick7]

True.
Still Doesn’t negate the point I made.

IMO

You might have to remind some of us. I've totally forgotten. There are so many posts to keep up with.

 

[lohrtabitha]

If you're talking strictly about things KR said during her trial, which were filmed for that documentary, I don't believe PTSD had anything to do with those. They were well thought out, IMO.

If you mean the things said by KR during the trauma the night and early morning JO was found, all I can say is excited utterances in shocking or stressful times are thought to be likely more trustworthy. MO

"Excited Utterance falls under the spontaneous category of hearsay exceptions. This means that excited utterances are spontaneous statements made without any thought to the effect of the statement.

As a result, a spontaneous statement (like an excited utterance) is usually seen as more trustworthy because the declarant did not have the time to strategically make the statement in their best interest."

Simplifying the Excited Utterance Exception to Hearsay - Law Venture

Learn how to master the Excited Utterance exception to the rule against hearsay. These hearsay examples will definitely help!

lawventure.com

No, I am talking about Karen Read experiencing JOKs death. Seems many things from this article could hold true for her still. PTSD After The Sudden Death Of A Loved One | Help For Survivors

 

[Linda7NJ]

You might have to remind some of us. I've totally forgotten. There are so many posts to keep up with.

Post 155

 

[Linda7NJ]

"Where are you" sounds pretty legit and practical to me.

After listening to testimony in T1 and T2 it's clear they were invited to attend an after party at 34F. They had never been there before and they had been invited by the homeowner's sister. Thus why JO had to call Jen to get directions again.

John wasn't just dropped off. In my opinion or assumption he and KR agreed, because the house was mostly dark when they drove up, that he would go check if indeed they were welcome.

He was supposed to come out to get her or let her know by text that the after party was indeed happening. So, when he didn't let her know either way she first was frustrated but then became angry...like who wouldn't if their boyfriend just went inside and started partying leaving them to sit out in the car waiting?

In M00 she didn't really know these people so she wasn't comfortable just going in. Besides, if you match timelines, it appears a couple of people left during the time KR was sitting out there waiting for a signal from JO.

So did Karen watch him enter the house?
Did she watch him approach the door?
Or did she leave him basically where she found him?

These are all Karen’s versions.

IMO

 

[keek]

No, I am talking about Karen Read experiencing JOKs death. Seems many things from this article could hold true for her still. PTSD After The Sudden Death Of A Loved One | Help For Survivors

She is the only one that morning with a normal reaction of finding JOK possibly dead on the lawn where he got out of her car the night before. MY mind would of been the same, no one was talking her down, if possible to begin with. But Matt McCabe kindly and thoughtfully told JMc or Kerrie, whoever was on the phone with him, to tell her shut the f up, wake the whole neighborhood. Talk about his detachment, wonder why. NOT a normal person's reaction, none of them were. Kerrie most likely did not know what Matt and JMc did and tried CPR on him at least, but the scene from the vid just showed us that JMc was calmly talking away from the time she whispered a call to 911 to the cop at the scene. Not a thought of course to run up to the house, no need. IMO

 

[Warwick7]

IMO it’s not reasonable to believe a dog caused those arm injuries. They’re abrasions.
A dog would leave DNA & hair and dogs have a lower jaw. There are no punctures one would expect.

There is a large section you are missing tho.

It was testified to that there were concerns about the chain of custody of the clothing and debris collected from the clothing.

NBC Boston reports that the clothing was submitted by former Trooper Proctor.

And the forensic scientist, Ashley Vallier, could not verify the chain of custody between when the clothing was collected and when it was submitted to her lab.

NBC Boston reports that the clothing debris was also scraped off O'Keefe's clothing, but the bags that contained the debris were not documented and not examined.
On top of that Yuri testified the clothing was stashed in the back of Proctor's truck for days.

If you can not verify the chain of custody between when the clothing was collected and when it was submitted to her lab then that negates what was or what wasn't on it like dog dna and dog hair etc...

 

[Warwick7]

So did Karen watch him enter the house?
Did she watch him approach the door?
Or did she leave him basically where she found him?

These are all Karen’s versions.

IMO

Like Jen McCabes version of seeing KR outside at 12:45 when in fact she was hooked to John's wifi at 12:36.

 

[Warwick7]

She is the only one that morning with a normal reaction of finding JOK possibly dead on the lawn where he got out of her car the night before. MY mind would of been the same, no one was talking her down, if possible to begin with. But Matt McCabe kindly and thoughtfully told JMc or Kerrie, whoever was on the phone with him, to tell her shut the f up, wake the whole neighborhood. Talk about his detachment, wonder why. NOT a normal person's reaction, none of them were. Kerrie most likely did not know what Matt and JMc did and tried CPR on him at least, but the scene from the vid just showed us that JMc was calmly talking away from the time she whispered a call to 911 to the cop at the scene. Not a thought of course to run up to the house, no need. IMO

BBM
BAM!!!!!!!!!

 

[keek]

BBM
BAM!!!!!!!!!

He is also on the group text of tell them the guy never came in the house. He sounds like the plan was well underway in HIS mind. COOL cucumber that one. Also, if she plea's it's over, if she fights it, it's an episode. Why the concern MMc?? What's it to you?? Group text again I believe with just the Alberts and JMC and of course himself. IMO

 

[bobbymkii]

Did I Hit Him?
Could I have Hit him?

 

[Warwick7]

Did I Hit Him?
Could I have Hit him?

In my own opinion I have wondered if they were going to pin it on Lucky. Until Jen heard KR asked if she could have hit him. It was all set in motion then...

 

[keek]

In my own opinion I have wondered if they were going to pin it on Lucky. Until Jen heard KR asked if she could have hit him. It was all set in motion then...

Ruin anyone's life, just don't harsh THEIR mellow. IMO

 

[Linda7NJ]

There is a large section you are missing tho.

It was testified to that there were concerns about the chain of custody of the clothing and debris collected from the clothing.

NBC Boston reports that the clothing was submitted by former Trooper Proctor.

And the forensic scientist, Ashley Vallier, could not verify the chain of custody between when the clothing was collected and when it was submitted to her lab.

NBC Boston reports that the clothing debris was also scraped off O'Keefe's clothing, but the bags that contained the debris were not documented and not examined.
On top of that Yuri testified the clothing was stashed in the back of Proctor's truck for days.

If you can not verify the chain of custody between when the clothing was collected and when it was submitted to her lab then that negates what was or what wasn't on it like dog dna and dog hair etc...

I have no concerns - trial 1 Karen’s team managed to muddy the waters. They failed spectacularly in Trial 2
I have zero concerns about chain of custody

IMO

 

[tara83]

I have no concerns - trial 1 Karen’s team managed to muddy the waters. They failed spectacularly in Trial 2
I have zero concerns about chain of custody

IMO

You might not care about chain of custody but the jury might actually be serious about their job and consider it reasonable doubt. JMO

 

[Linda7NJ]

Like Jen McCabes version of seeing KR outside at 12:45 when in fact she was hooked to John's wifi at 12:36.

I think it’s normal & common to get time wrong and it’s not comparable to Karen’s statements

IMO

 

[tara83]

I think it’s normal & common to get time wrong and it’s not comparable to Karen’s statements

IMO

Pretending to be your own sister to the FBI?