MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #31 Retrial

[Leilei]

Yeah, I agree body temp should have fallen quicker, in a blizzard, on the cold ground, without a coat. When they described rendering aid- chest compressions and rescue breaths I said? What?
And then EMTs intubated and put him on a ventilator.
I was shocked he had been out in a blizzard that long and was alive and not frozen!

I didn’t know the temp outside- but we know it was January, near Boston, at night, the sun goes down early, and a blizzard!

I’ll have to see how the body temp was presented- if they say lower than 80, or if they say measured at 80 degrees F. And how was it measured?
Core temp is used to determine time of death, and measurement happens using a thermometer into a deceased person’s liver. He was alive when found, so how was it measured?
Comparing an alive person’s body temp with a deceased person’s to find time of death are very different. Here we are talking about 5 hours- so it is well beyond the time that should have killed him. So you would then ask how on earth could still be alive?

And… JM did a search to find out how long it would take. So if she read the results she would have known JO’s alive and unfrozen body she was seeing near 6AM, doing chest compressions on could not have been outside exposed the entire time since she last text him when the SUV was in front of the house.

Hmmm- that is some pretty incriminating evidence and food for thought!

Great points! And just the kind of evidence that makes me think! Thank you for your time here!
IMO

The blizzard didn't start until after he was found.
This has been discussed here many times, and was testified to a couple of weeks ago.
IMO.

 

[justwannahelp]

@justwannahelp
Thank you for all this info and your well thought out post. The core body temp has always been curious to me.
Lucky saw a ford edge parked in front of Fairview by the flagpole at around 330am that morning.
I wonder if the body was being put out then?
JMO

Is the core temp of 80 degrees the temp the paramedic / firefighters got at the scene? Or is it from the hospital? I ask this because the paramedic/ firefighter said in his testimony that they turned the heat up as high as possible in the ambulance and removed his wet clothing. I’m assuming that would raise his core body temp, but of course I’m just assuming. Anyone know?

 

[Tortoise]

I’m not saying I’m confused- I’m saying if he claims dummies don’t react like muscles do- why use one for a drop test?

In order for a living healthy body to simply drop like he showed the dummy dropping- the person would not react to catch themselves at all.
Why would a guy grazed on the arm by a taillight proceed to fall backward like a that with no reflexes?

I can see that if he stumbled backwards and caught both of his heels on the curb- he could not catch himself. Or if he was so intoxicated his reflexes were too slow.
I guess it is possible

Just my opinion

Well his shoe came off by the kerb, so I think his foot must have caught as he was spun off the car. IMO

 

[AngTxGal]

Yet JM said she turned him over when she found him.

I didn’t catch that-he was face down? That is not at all what I expected. Hmm

IMO

 

[Leilei]

Yeah, it is human nature to start compiling evidence on each side even if you go in open minded. At some point it is too much- you make a choice and then pile on more evidence toward that choice.
Not ideal- but remaining neutral, unbiased, and open minded is harder work.
For some reason people in forums see it as a game- as if they get more points for deciding early and being right in their guess.
Science doesn’t work like that, and jurors sitting for trials may or may not think this way.

I don’t know why they wait until the end for the jury to sit and discuss- imo why not let the jury debrief after each day?

IMO

BBM.
The jury has to see ALL of the evidence and hear ALL of the testimony before beginning deliberations. To discuss anything prior to the end of closing arguments would be unfair to all parties involved, honestly.
IMO.

 

[Tortoise]

I didn’t catch that-he was face down? That is not at all what I expected. Hmm

IMO

No, he was found lying on his back. Kerry said she had to dig his head out of the snow and remove the snow from his face before she saw it was John.

“I got out of the car and came around,” McCabe said. “For a second or two, I completely just froze. Then Kerry and I made eye contact, and I called 911 … I could not believe that was John laying [sic] there. He was just lying flat on his back. There was enough that his body was covered in snow.”

A who’s who guide of witnesses and key people in the Karen Read trial

Here's a guide to some of the key witnesses and figures of the Karen Read murder trial, which will continue on Monday, June 3.

www.masslive.com

 

[AngTxGal]

The blizzard didn't start until after he was found.
This has been discussed here many times, and was testified to a couple of weeks ago.
IMO.

He was found in the morning around 6AM and covered with snow- how could the blizzard have started after he was found. Was that snow not the blizzard?

Maybe here in Texas we don’t have blizzards too often so I’m not understanding what is light snow and what is blizzard for Boston?

IMO

 

[LookingForClues]

All I can say is the defense better make sure the jurors know about the sketchy stuff related to Trial 1. These are new jurors, they either know nothing about the first trial or said they could be impartial.

I didn't watch Trial 1. I didn't follow this case closely in the beginning, and as soon as it became a social media circus, I stopped reading about it here and in the news. I don’t use social media because anyone can claim to be an expert, an influencer, whatever. As a former journalist, I don’t like where people find their "news" today. I didn't watch any documentaries either. I know, I sound crotchety, but it really wasn't long ago when news wasn't click bait.

So why am I suddenly paying attention to this case? Because a friend brought it up. She's convinced KR is guilty and asked my opinion. I told her I wasn't paying attention and why, and she encouraged me to watch Trial 2 because she values my opinion. (Don't worry, the rest of you don't have to value my opinion!)

All the back and forth here about "you have to watch Trial 1 to know certain things, and you have to watch Trial 1 to understand why the CW and defense are doing what they're doing" mean nothing to a juror in Trial 2. The CW and defence need to present their best case to THESE jurors.

That said, I don't think KR hit JOK. The prosecution hasn't shown evidence that he was hit by a vehicle. That matters. I think the defense might be able to make this clear to the jury. But they better remind the jury about any shenanigans from the other side.

 

[twall]

If Michael Proctor had not deleted the location data from Karen Read’s phone in April 2022 it might have been easier to confirm KR could have hit JOK with her Lexus.

And yet, Proctor deleted the location data.

Why do you think he did that? Who did the deletion benefit?

Link to MP deleting KR's location data please. I looked but all I come up with is his texts about her.

It wouldn't benefit anyone because LE doesn't need the device to determine her location as it can be done via GPS triangulation. And her Lexus has navigation therefore location data.

 

[keek]

Yet JM said she turned him over when she found him.

KR when asked said he was just laying there. The other woman said we flipped him ..so never really clear. If his phone was found under him and he was on his front..or if on his back and under him. Don't know at this moment if makes a diff, but I felt never a truly clear answer. There was also really not much snow so when I read he had to have his head dug out of the snow..Unfortunately of course, NO photo's taken by whoever should of taken a photo, which I would of though would of been standard procedure, but there were no standard procedures of course. IMO

 

[keek]

Link to MP deleting KR's location data please. I looked but all I come up with is his texts about her.

It wouldn't benefit anyone because LE doesn't need the device to determine her location as it can be done via GPS triangulation. And her Lexus has navigation therefore location data.

To see her tail light's condition I believe is the point of that. IMO

 

[themonk]

Link to MP deleting KR's location data please. I looked but all I come up with is his texts about her.

Post in thread 'MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #31 Retrial'

Jun 1, 2025

If Michael Proctor had not deleted the location data from Karen Read’s phone in April 2022 it might have been easier to confirm KR could have hit JOK with her Lexus.

And yet, Proctor deleted the location data.

Why do you think he did that? Who did the deletion benefit?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1887538829525197168

• Warwick7

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[AngTxGal]

Is the core temp of 80 degrees the temp the paramedic / firefighters got at the scene? Or is it from the hospital? I ask this because the paramedic/ firefighter said in his testimony that they turned the heat up as high as possible in the ambulance and removed his wet clothing. I’m assuming that would raise his core body temp, but of course I’m just assuming. Anyone know?

I know you can measure core body temp with an endotracheal tube- they can have a temperature sensor. So it makes sense that this would be how- when he was intubated by EMTs to help him breath.
Here in Texas we don’t have hypothermia issues often- so our EMTs probably don’t have them on hand- but I bet they have them in Mass.
In one of the interviews- KR mentions seeing a piece of glass on his nose and removing it and him bleeding. She also mentions seeing other bleeding. I would not think blood would be flowing if body temp was 80F

IMO

 

[AngTxGal]

All I can say is the defense better make sure the jurors know about the sketchy stuff related to Trial 1. These are new jurors, they either know nothing about the first trial or said they could be impartial.

I didn't watch Trial 1. I didn't follow this case closely in the beginning, and as soon as it became a social media circus, I stopped reading about it here and in the news. I don’t use social media because anyone can claim to be an expert, an influencer, whatever. As a former journalist, I don’t like where people find their "news" today. I didn't watch any documentaries either. I know, I sound crotchety, but it really wasn't long ago when news wasn't click bait.

So why am I suddenly paying attention to this case? Because a friend brought it up. She's convinced KR is guilty and asked my opinion. I told her I wasn't paying attention and why, and she encouraged me to watch Trial 2 because she values my opinion. (Don't worry, the rest of you don't have to value my opinion!)

All the back and forth here about "you have to watch Trial 1 to know certain things, and you have to watch Trial 1 to understand why the CW and defense are doing what they're doing" mean nothing to a juror in Trial 2. The CW and defence need to present their best case to THESE jurors.

That said, I don't think KR hit JOK. The prosecution hasn't shown evidence that he was hit by a vehicle. That matters. I think the defense might be able to make this clear to the jury. But they better remind the jury about any shenanigans from the other side.

I think you are saying you hope the jury for Trial 2 can use testimony in Trail 1 as evidence? Is that right? I don’t think so.

I think Trial 2 has to be independent from trial 1 and anything the jury considers as evidence must be presented to them in Trial 2. They can’t be presented with Trial 1 as evidence.

Maybe an attorney here can confirm? I’m not sure I’m sure
IMO

 

[lohrtabitha]

No, he was found lying on his back. Kerry said she had to dig his head out of the snow and remove the snow from his face before she saw it was John.

“I got out of the car and came around,” McCabe said. “For a second or two, I completely just froze. Then Kerry and I made eye contact, and I called 911 … I could not believe that was John laying [sic] there. He was just lying flat on his back. There was enough that his body was covered in snow.”

A who’s who guide of witnesses and key people in the Karen Read trial

Here's a guide to some of the key witnesses and figures of the Karen Read murder trial, which will continue on Monday, June 3.

www.masslive.com

Jen Mccabe said in her 911 call, that they flipped him over. Whose lying?

 

[themonk]

Jen Mccabe said in her 911 call, that they flipped him over. Whose lying?

Well, it is second nature for Jen McCabe...

 

[Tortoise]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1887538829525197168

He received Read’s phone the same night. Guarino said both phones were placed in the digital forensics lab, which has limited keycard access.

But troopers were not able to access Read’s phone until July 2022 because they did not have her passcode. By July 2022, the software had been upgraded to “brute force” open Read’s phone.

Link

MSN

 

[lohrtabitha]

Well his shoe came off by the kerb, so I think his foot must have caught as he was spun off the car. IMO

Or in my speculation, it fell off when he was dragged out of the house. It also explains how the blood got all over his shirt and the vomit found in his underwear. Not to mention his ripped back pocket of his jeans and grass stains on the back of his pants, which were not ripped or stained in the Waterfall video.

 

[ShadyLady]

Or in my speculation, it fell off when he was dragged out of the house. It also explains how the blood got all over his shirt and the vomit found in his underwear. Not to mention his ripped back pocket of his jeans and grass stains on the back of his pants, which were not ripped or stained in the Waterfall video.

Or dragged out of an Edge?

 

[AngTxGal]

Or dragged out of an Edge?

Welcher testified that it is common to have shoes removed from a body during a pedestrian/ car collision… I thought seriously?
When a pedestrian is hit by a speeding car such that the entire human body is propelled by the impact- it isn’t uncommon for a shoe to come off.
So Welcher was hinting that a graze by a car could have caused JOs body to launch? really?
Doesn’t make sense to me, he must have stumbled and lost his shoe.

IMO