MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #32 Retrial

[Forest_Wood]

Didn’t she say she was there when it arrived….she saw it and the 2 spending a wildly long time with it?? Then changed to say that she left hours before, so saw none of that? Am I dreaming?

<modsnip - namecalling>

I don’t believe she said she left at 3:45pm. I believe she said she received evidence that her shift ended at that time. A play on words IMO because she easily could have still been there after the SUV arrived. MOO

 

[rescuemom]

Not sure about this.

For what it's worth, I I know someone who has worked with the commissioner in the past and says he'd never push anyone on staff to lie. If that's the case, "do the right thing" really does mean "tell the truth".

She's apparently connected to more Canton players here than just Sara Levenson. And she doesn't come off as very bright. Quite the opposite. She may have backtracked from her original story for reasons that have nothing to do with the Boston PD.

The Boston PD has been completely silent about the case against Read from the beginning. Which is unusual when you consider the murder victim here was a member of the force.

I've wondered about the silence of Boston PD all along. Do they know that the FBI is on to something with Norfolk County and MM and are just waiting to comment further?? Has it been said that the FBI investigation is closed, as in finished?? Or is it paused? Or is some part of it finished and it's going in another particular direction???

The commissioner may have had good intentions and truly meant for her to tell her truth as he know it from her.

IMO, she, knowing the car was coming to Canton PD, stayed past her shift to see the what was going on. She may have seen something she shouldn't have and was then advised by those doing the tampering, assuming she would be on board with it to protect them, to keep her mouth shut.

Too late. By this time she had already told somebody that MP and YB were at the sally port, then maybe wanting to let it go at that and not wanting to tell the rest of the story.

Some think she went to Boston PD as a sort of promotion but maybe she went to Boston PD to get away from Canton PD and what she knows. She, early in her career, saw evidence being tampered with and wanted no part of it.

At the same time, they know she knows and she is called to testify. She's conflicted and probly scared. Thus the convoluted story that makes no sense.

Or she's just a twit. Does any LE departments require psych evaluations before hiring????

 

[kuromiiiilove]

I agree, I don’t find her unlikable at all. Karen seems like a genuinely kind, generous and giving person. She seems like she would be a great friend. Everyone who has testified has said they liked her.

I think she has a take no personality that may rub people the wrong way. I honestly like her more and more as the trial proceeds. I watched a video of someone giving her a rosary last week and she was incredibly patient and kind. MOO

 

[Angelwatch]

If they were looking at him... how did they know who it was? If they don't follow the media/news... not watching or seeing anything while the trial is going on... ??

I am convinced that most of the jurors have a pretty good idea of background info from trial 1. IIRC, only 1 juror said they didn't watch the news.

 

[Soulmagent]

Didn’t she say she was there when it arrived….she saw it and the 2 spending a wildly long time with it?? Then changed to say that she left hours before, so saw none of that? Am I dreaming?

Have you seen 'Men in Black" ?

Only difference is the blinky flash is a promotion.IMO

 

[rescuemom]

I both loved and appreciated the testimony of KK. She was down-to-earth and appeared to just be a "regular" person (whatever that is). She also helped me to see KR in a different light. KR's text messages to BH left me frustrated. I was wondering why she was flirting with fire in the first place and felt that she was just a "player". That does NOT, however, make her a murderer. KK is so "girl-next-door" and talked about her like of KR, which is the entire reason she stayed at the bar-- to talk to Karen. I should not judge so prematurely.

If I were on the jury, I would push for an acquittal. IMO.

We can only hope for an acquittal but my fear is that the judge and the CW have a different idea that will have some kind of weight with no consequences.

 

[kuromiiiilove]

So we are to believe, according to the CW, that Lucky is intimidated by Turtle Boy, but not by the entire McAlbert clan?

We are back to ‘The Adventures of Karen in Wonderland’, apparently

MOO

 

[HarmonyE.]

One of my relatives is retired FBI/ATF/HSI and his experience is that a conspiracy with so many people is hard to maintain. That makes complete sense to me, but Barros’ testimony has me wondering if there really is a conspiracy? I’m not sure how else to explain the difference in her taillight from the time it left her custody to the time they took pics in the sally port.

"Just tell them the guy never came into the house" is a pretty easy marching order to follow.

Sargeant Barros had absolutely no reason to lie about the condition of the taillight before it was removed from the Read home.

We know Proctor lied about the time when he picked up the vehicle in Dighton. We know he was hovering around the (correct!) side of the SUV in the sallyport, after it was brought back to Canton (inappropriately, as Canton PD was conflicted out).

We know the Canton PD didn't find a single shard of red taillight using a blower earlier that morning when only a few inches of snow were on the ground.

We know the "found" taillight pieces were not properly contextually photographed or mapped so a proper reconstruction of the site was never able to be completed.

It's not complicated. Proctor obviously planted the taillight (or otherwise made it seem all pieces were already at the scene). It is something bad cops do sometimes.

 

[kuromiiiilove]

I have no idea why the defense puts this guy on the stand. He's awful. Even if you believe his testimony, you have to then think all the electronic data is a lie... all of it... along with just about every witness.

Then, you have to believe JO was attacked inside the house. The murderers let him remain wounded for hours without aid. Then, decided the best thing to do was drag him out into the front yard to die in the snow.

That's a pretty heavy lift even for the most devoted "KR is innocent/not guity" disciples.

You actually don’t have to buy into some elaborate conspiracy to see there’s reasonable doubt here. That’s the entire point. Reasonable doubt doesn’t require you to prove what happened inside 34 Fairview, it just means the state hasn’t proven beyond it that Karen Read did this. The prosecution’s version is full of gaps, missing timestamps, inconsistent injuries, mishandled evidence, internal contradictions, and a mountain of data that’s being interpreted through a very narrow lens. The defense doesn’t need to discredit every witness or prove an alternate theory with 100% certainty. They just need to show that the story the state is selling has holes, and they’ve done that, repeatedly.

Framing it like we either have to believe every cop and CW witness lied or accept Karen ran him over is a false dichotomy fallacy. Maybe not everyone lied, maybe some people were just wrong, scared, or protecting their own careers. That still leaves enough uncertainty to make a conviction irresponsible.

MOO

 

[kuromiiiilove]

Is Brennan lying?

Is he breathing?

MOO

 

[Angelwatch]

I finally caught up today. A couple of my notes!

Lucky was compelling to me, as I found him in T1. Even when Hank mistakenly said Lucky drove a tow truck instead of a snowplow, Lucky didn’t get flustered or defensive. He just calmly corrected him: “I don’t want to be rude, but I don’t drive a tow truck.” That’s what an unbiased witness looks like IMO. Some of these witnesses (looking at you, Devers) could learn a thing or two from him about how to handle being on the stand. Hank was ridiculous trying to act as though the Read team threatened him… his testimony along with Barros’ is very compelling together. Minimal tail light damage, no body in the snow.

Karina Kolakithis was interesting to me. I did think we’d hear more from her. But she says it was strange that Jen McCabe put her arm around Karen Read and said "you're coming with me" at the Waterfall Bar. I do believe the Fairview goal was to ‘expose’ Karen and Brian’s texting relationship to John. She also said that John and Karen were affectionate with each other at Waterfall, and she saw Higgins gesturing. She also said she assumed Karen was drinking, but that she didn’t seem drunk. <modsnip - no link>

All MOO

I agree that this was the reason they wanted them to go back to 34 Fairview. I can see Jen Mc finding out about the texting, etc. and wanted to expose her to JOK. And because everyone was drunk, it ended up in a brawl where JOK was also attacked by Chloe. JMO

 

[mzmarymac]

You actually don’t have to buy into some elaborate conspiracy to see there’s reasonable doubt here. That’s the entire point. Reasonable doubt doesn’t require you to prove what happened inside 34 Fairview, it just means the state hasn’t proven beyond it that Karen Read did this. The prosecution’s version is full of gaps, missing timestamps, inconsistent injuries, mishandled evidence, internal contradictions, and a mountain of data that’s being interpreted through a very narrow lens. The defense doesn’t need to discredit every witness or prove an alternate theory with 100% certainty. They just need to show that the story the state is selling has holes, and they’ve done that, repeatedly.

Framing it like we either have to believe every cop and CW witness lied or accept Karen ran him over is a false dichotomy fallacy. Maybe not everyone lied, maybe some people were just wrong, scared, or protecting their own careers. That still leaves enough uncertainty to make a conviction irresponsible.

MOO

Any one of those drunk drivers present that evening could just as easily have done it.

 

[mzmarymac]

I find it interesting that somehow, someway, TB won the pool lottery to be able to be there today. I have my opinions as to how that may have been rigged, because he's never been able to get in for weeks. I think the CW wanted him there because they planned to bring him up in the testimony and have a visual for the jury.

Personally, TB has been the impetus for the HUGE interest in this case from the onset, but his attitude doesn't help her case at all. I wish he'd just stay away.

JMO

 

[mzmarymac]

Not sure if this has been posted, but a lovely article on Dr. Marie Russel. Amazing woman.

A One-of-a-Kind Trauma Doctor

Medicine: County-USC physician's background as a police officer comes in handy in the emergency room.

www.latimes.com

 

[keek]

I think the whole "you coming here" was a follow up to words/threats thrown back and forth at the bar. BH wanted to finish the "conversation" Jen busy body that she is couldn't keep her nose out of it

She was thriving on the 'drama' of middle aged BH who told BA then the 'family' grapevine, oohhh. because IT was about JOK and KR. Middle aged, most have teen kids, sports (which they did, some) love to socialize with the drinks, going out, see and be seen, all of that. Jen Mc was the HS. gossip queen here. She could not care less about Brian Higgins, but she def loved the 'drama' of it with KR and JOK. To me it was very upsetting to see her try to take KR away with her and when KR asked about it, JMc said, it's a surprise! Why do I feel a bit terrified? The unknown only to KR at that moment, but JMc knew well. All at the time BH and the 'boys' were hoping to goad JOK over to the house based on more drinks they thought he might bite. IMO

 

[lohrtabitha]

It was for information purposes only. Thank you for the kind words.

Sure, anytime.

 

[keek]

I've wondered about the silence of Boston PD all along. Do they know that the FBI is on to something with Norfolk County and MM and are just waiting to comment further?? Has it been said that the FBI investigation is closed, as in finished?? Or is it paused? Or is some part of it finished and it's going in another particular direction???

The commissioner may have had good intentions and truly meant for her to tell her truth as he know it from her.

IMO, she, knowing the car was coming to Canton PD, stayed past her shift to see the what was going on. She may have seen something she shouldn't have and was then advised by those doing the tampering, assuming she would be on board with it to protect them, to keep her mouth shut.

Too late. By this time she had already told somebody that MP and YB were at the sally port, then maybe wanting to let it go at that and not wanting to tell the rest of the story.

Some think she went to Boston PD as a sort of promotion but maybe she went to Boston PD to get away from Canton PD and what she knows. She, early in her career, saw evidence being tampered with and wanted no part of it.

At the same time, they know she knows and she is called to testify. She's conflicted and probly scared. Thus the convoluted story that makes no sense.

Or she's just a twit. Does any LE departments require psych evaluations before hiring????

The way she did that abrupt turn about and left was to me, told to get out and keep her mouth shut in so many words. Nosey to have even gone in there, as far as she knew, as dispatch I believe at that time, she had no reason to go interrupt those two others, Berko (the chief) and Proctor, the life thief. Someone did not trust her enough to keep her mouth shut so shuttled her off to BPD, can't imagine who had the POWER to get that done and get her massive pay raise as a couple years only local female cop in Canton. More power is at hand here and why the need. Talk was done amongst more than the CPD and proctor and Berko. Someone much higher with power and say so.

It does seem very suspicious that the BOSTON POLICE DEPT COMMISSIONER, called this 'peon' in for a talk. He was def briefed of course on what had happened, what she saw and had already told I think the grand jury or someone, then the false memory happened. Would she go against what the Commissioner 'told her to do' if it wa a 'threat'? Would she rather 'lie' to protect her Canton friends and the script? She said her job and life depended on what she said on the stand. I just can't tell, to myself, if the Commissioner did mean, this is all hard due to your friends and family etc in Canton and what you saw, but do the right thing, meaning tell what you saw. IF So, she did not.
Sure in time it will be found out some way, local talk etc, T.B. ha, but really he would find out, what DOES become of that dever person. IMO

 

[Forest_Wood]

The way she did that abrupt turn about and left was to me, told to get out and keep her mouth shut in so many words. Nosey to have even gone in there, as far as she knew, as dispatch I believe at that time, she had no reason to go interrupt those two others, Berko (the chief) and Proctor, the life thief. Someone did not trust her enough to keep her mouth shut so shuttled her off to BPD, can't imagine who had the POWER to get that done and get her massive pay raise as a couple years only local female cop in Canton. More power is at hand here and why the need. Talk was done amongst more than the CPD and proctor and Berko. Someone much higher with power and say so. IMO

She went from night work to days! Very coveted shift to work days in a 24/7 work environment! Some rookies don’t see that for many many years!

 

[MerlinFalcon]

I totally agree, KK humanized Karen. She also said that Karen didn’t seem intoxicated, which was helpful to the defense. IMO, it’s odd that JMc wouldn’t have invited KK and her husband back to 34 Fairview. Why would that be? If you’re all leaving at approximately the same time, why wouldn’t everyone in the group be invited? I’m chewing on that for a bit.

I’m also thinking a lot about Barros’ testimony. If I believe my eyes (and Barros’ testimony) the taillight was not smashed into 47 pieces when she allegedly backed into John so WHEN was it smashed, by WHOM, and HOW did it get to 34 Fairview?

One of my relatives is retired FBI/ATF/HSI and his experience is that a conspiracy with so many people is hard to maintain. That makes complete sense to me, but Barros’ testimony has me wondering if there really is a conspiracy? I’m not sure how else to explain the difference in her taillight from the time it left her custody to the time they took pics in the sally port.

A conspiracy is difficult to maintain for sure, because there are so many players. However, in this case, if “the girl” had just pleaded guilty to the charges or agreed to a deal, the conspiracy would have been protected and the conspirators would have gone on with their lives. In this case, she fought back, her legal team dug up all types of information and the plot is cracking up.

When I first started following here I also thought it was bogus but very quickly I changed my mind, based on evidence and butt dials. Throw in all of the key people saying they didn’t remember anything and the lack of a ton of blood by John’s body and the dog bites on his arm, I am fully behind KR and believe there was a huge conspiracy. Hopefully the FBI is on it.

 

[DropthePuck]

For those that are wondering how a community could possibly pull together to cover up a murder? Please. I grew up in just this kind of community. But think more midwest and more run by the actual mafia. Everyone knew everyone and if you were not in that circle, you were worthless. Need a cop? Good luck. Want to open a business? Gotta grease some palms. Have a complaint? Tell the mayor. Oh...wait...he went to prison.

Exactly. This is why I just do not understand how some people are in denial about the very real possibility that a group of people (a super tight knit family, no less) could conspire to cover up a murder. Maybe I'm just cynical but I have no problem thinking some people are just rotten to the core, have no moral code and think nothing of throwing someone else under the bus to save their own (or a relative's skin). Blood is most definitely thicker than water in some families, dangerously so.