MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #33 Retrial

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  • #321
I think the final text was her reaching out - hoping for some connection and comfort. At this point, KR is in shock and doesn’t have any idea what happened. She certainly doesn’t think that his friends, acquaintances, fellow cops would beat him up and leave him for dead in their front lawn!
Yes for sure she was reaching out plus she had no idea BA had called him that morning first thing and that BH was at their home at 07:00 and already knew about John.

I’d still like to know if LE ever suspected BH and her were working together though. They pointed the finger at her immediately but what about him.
 
  • #322
After BH and KR meet at his home in Roxbury (whatever happened there), she ghosts him for a few days. During which time, BH spends a long car ride with BA - he’s mixed up, hurt, angry or all three. Of course he mentions her texts to him, her kiss to him under JOs nose and what happened when she came to his place a few days prior. This tidbit is shared by BA with McAlberts who are drooling at the thought of telling JO. The flame is further fueled by KRs blatant ignoring BH at the Waterfall, even while BA and him play grab A$$ right in front of her to get her attention.
KR might have suspected the cat was out of the bag and didn’t want to go to 34F and deal with BH.
MAYBE KR tells JO, I really need to get home and use the bathroom. JO says Ok, you go and I’ll just stay for one if someone will drive me home. He grabs her drink from the console and walks in.
The guys are in the basement- he walks down and is confronted.
BH - ‘Hey, Where’s Karen?’
JO - smart 🤬🤬🤬 remark
BAM

The BH + KR part of all the drama I just don’t understand!

Why was KR carrying on this text flirt with BH?
JOK seems to have been a good guy.
She was in a relationship where children were involved, and becoming part of a family with JOK, providing stability for all four of them.
KR is 44 yrs old- it is my understanding she was financially doing well, she was pretty much past child bearing years, and had had health issues herself

What was she doing fooling around with BH?
I find that fact so completely immature- for a 44 yr old professional woman in a relationship with a man who has children- who is living off and on with them in their home.

Just my opinion- and doesn’t mean anything regarding her Guilt or Not Guilty- but gives more fuel to cause the O’Keefe family to see her in a different light.
She earned part of it

This fact also gives some people ammo to not like her.

But of course I know nothing about JOK’s history with women.
Many of us will be raised to sainthood after death when few of us deserve it.

IMO
 
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  • #323
Our winters aren't what they used to be. When I was a kid, I remember the ground being frozen solid in Janaury. Alaskan tundra style.

It doesn't happen like that anymore. Even with stretches of cold days, we'll then get days in the 40's (F) so the ground never seems to truly freeze. Last trial I checked the weather history, it had been in the high 20's in the days leading up to the blizzard. Not sub zero weather by any stretch.
I'm a Celsius girl haha but I understand and agree. After I posted, I was talking to my hubby about it, he is an electrician, frozen ground is a thing he deals with in the fall. Some years, it isn't frozen until November into December, but I guarantee we had snow, blizzards, freezing temps for months before that. All jmo
 
  • #324
I wondered where MA falls compared to other states.

MASS State comparison
Top 3 Highest educated population
Top 1 Highest public education K-12 based on standardized tests
Top 5 Safest- low violent crime and property crime
Murder rate per capita- 2.5 per 100,000
Top 10 Highest cannabis use

I see why MA is ‘high’ on the list for illegal drug use, and low in crime rate.

IMO
Recreational marijuana is legal there.
IMO.
 
  • #325
Reporter: Are we going to hear from Richard Green in this trial?

Defendant: No

Reporter: Why not?

Defendant: um I believe the evidence is all out and in part from Ian Whiffin.

Reporter: Will you still disputing the 2:27 or I mean the six o’clock the timestamp of …

Defendant: um that’s been addressed

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/l5hRAouq6CQ
 
  • #326
  • #327
I will try and be as fair to each side when I describe what the data entails :)

The key cycle data showing the abrupt reverse events (1162-2) shows the odometer reading and the time into the key cycle that the event occurred. Since another event occurred in the same key cycle (1162-1, the 3 point turn) it also shows the time between the 3 point turn and the abrupt reversal.

The CW used the GPS data from JO's phone and the data from the Waze app to try and line up where he was at the time of the first trigger event. They were able to deduce that JO (and the Lexus) were making a 3point turn on a specific road, ~ 11 minutes after the cycle started.

The issue with 1162-2 is that the Waze app has been turned off since 12:24am, JO's phone location is independent of the Lexus (and this has to be true for the CW as well as the defense) and all the witness testimony about the car's location, JO's location, etc. is a whole mess.

At best, the data shows that 1162-2 occurred on the same mileage as 1162-1, so it has to be within a mile range of the 3 point turn. It also happened ~ 8 minutes after the 3 point turn. So we can say that KR wasn't in Boston when 1162-2 happened (just an example) but we cannot say she was in front of 34 Fairview.

IMO, the data point that she connects to wifi at 12:36am makes it more likely 1162-2 was not in front of 34 Fairview. Rather that she missed the turn onto Beaumont and went down Beatty street instead. This scenario fits perfectly with the information that we do have: it's .7 miles away from the 3 point turn, its about 2 minutes from 34 Fairview which would align with her return to 1 Meadows Ave at 12:36am AND align with HB's statement that JO exited the car at 12:30am - though that was never brought up in testimony. We also know that KR missed a turn just 8 minutes prior so it’s reasonable she missed one on the way home too. Especially with how confusing that intersection/turn looks

12:30am - JO exits/KR leaves
12:32am - KR misses turn and reverses
12:36am - KR in vicinity of 1 Meadows Ave to connect to wifi

Thank you so much for this, it has been my feeling all along that the reverse happened on her way back to 1 Meadows and she overshot a road the same as she did when going to 34 F. I'm not adept enough to do the calculations so I greatly appreciate you having done so.
 
  • #328
After BH and KR meet at his home in Roxbury (whatever happened there), she ghosts him for a few days. During which time, BH spends a long car ride with BA - he’s mixed up, hurt, angry or all three. Of course he mentions her texts to him, her kiss to him under JOs nose and what happened when she came to his place a few days prior. This tidbit is shared by BA with McAlberts who are drooling at the thought of telling JO. The flame is further fueled by KRs blatant ignoring BH at the Waterfall, even while BA and him play grab A$$ right in front of her to get her attention.
KR might have suspected the cat was out of the bag and didn’t want to go to 34F and deal with BH.
MAYBE KR tells JO, I really need to get home and use the bathroom. JO says Ok, you go and I’ll just stay for one if someone will drive me home. He grabs her drink from the console and walks in.
The guys are in the basement- he walks down and is confronted.
BH - ‘Hey, Where’s Karen?’
JO - smart 🤬🤬🤬 remark
BAM
Karen has said in interviews she waiting for John, when he did not come out she then was angry.
And remember at Waterfall, BH, CA and BA huddled and whispered several times. I think the whole Waterfall video worth watching, including parts not shown in the trial.
 
  • #329
The BH + KR part of all the drama I just don’t understand!

Why was KR carrying on this text flirt with BH?
JOK seems to have been a good guy.
She was in a relationship where children were involved, and becoming part of a family with JOK, providing stability for all four of them.
KR is 44 yrs old- it is my understanding she was financially doing well, she was pretty much past child bearing years, and had had health issues herself

What was she doing fooling around with BH?
I find that fact so completely immature- for a 44 yr old professional woman in a relationship with a man who has children- who is living off and on with them in their home.

Just my opinion- and doesn’t mean anything regarding her Guilt or Not Guilty- but gives more fuel to cause the O’Keefe family to see her in a different light.
She earned part of it

This fact also gives some people ammo to not like her.

But of course I know nothing about JOK’s history with women.
Many of us will be raised to sainthood after death when few of us deserve it.

IMO

It seems to me JO and KR had a very dysfunctional relationship with the addition of alcohol problems on both their parts. The incident in Aruba was very recent and I can see KR feeling undesirable after catching him in that situation no matter what the excuse was. And so many women seemed to love the lovable JO and he seemed to love the attention he got from them. Jealousy was apparent on both their parts. Single and both uncommitted. Yes they both were behaving like teenagers but then they were both still unmarried and into their 40's with marriage not seeming to be the ultimate goal of either of them. Perpetual bachelor and bachelorette and very immature still playing games. I agree none of this makes KR guilty of anything other than fooling around behind JO's back to boost her ego. I don't really see a stolen kiss leading to JO's murder but because of the faulty investigation the truth of what happened will remain a question that is unanswered....JMOO
 
  • #330
It seems to me JO and KR had a very dysfunctional relationship with the addition of alcohol problems on both their parts. The incident in Aruba was very recent and I can see KR feeling undesirable after catching him in that situation no matter what the excuse was. And so many women seemed to love the lovable JO and he seemed to love the attention he got from them. Jealousy was apparent on both their parts. Single and both uncommitted. Yes they both were behaving like teenagers but then they were both still unmarried and into their 40's with marriage not seeming to be the ultimate goal of either of them. Perpetual bachelor and bachelorette and very immature still playing games. I agree none of this makes KR guilty of anything other than fooling around behind JO's back to boost her ego. I don't really see a stolen kiss leading to JO's murder but because of the faulty investigation the truth of what happened will remain a question that is unanswered....JMOO

If this drama causes some to not like KR, why is the prosecution not using BH as a way to assaassinate her character?
Is there something there with BH that I’m missing- other than LE conspiracy?

Aruba came in during testimony

IMO
 
  • #331
If this drama causes some to not like KR, why is the prosecution not using BH as a way to assaassinate her character?
Is there something there with BH that I’m missing- other than LE conspiracy?

Aruba came in during testimony

IMO
They did, with Yuri reading their texts.
Or tried to, anyway.
IMO.
 
  • #332
Please tell me I'm not the only person whom this case has taken up so much of their thought that they do the following thing:

So, I live in a part of London where none of the homes have driveway or garage so everyone has to park their car on the street. I must have just walked past about 50 cars on my walk to and from the shop just now and as I was walking by I must have looked at the taillight of every single one of them, comparing the designs, the lens/diffuser, height or whether it had a tailgate segment and corner segment like the Lexus!
Yes to this and everytime thatI see a Red Solo Cup, I give it a dirty look. Poor red solo cup, I used to think of you in happiness with Toby Keith until Gallagher ruined you for me. Lol
 
  • #333
If this drama causes some to not like KR, why is the prosecution not using BH as a way to assaassinate her character?
Is there something there with BH that I’m missing- other than LE conspiracy?

Aruba came in during testimony

IMO
BH is not exactly innocent in this little triangle. He crossed his friend JO by engaging with KR the way I see it. I doubt the cw would like to put him under the spotlight and take away from their fabricated Lexus car murder and take the focus off KR. JMOO
 
  • #334
  • #335
The BH + KR part of all the drama I just don’t understand!

Why was KR carrying on this text flirt with BH?
JOK seems to have been a good guy.
She was in a relationship where children were involved, and becoming part of a family with JOK, providing stability for all four of them.
KR is 44 yrs old- it is my understanding she was financially doing well, she was pretty much past child bearing years, and had had health issues herself

What was she doing fooling around with BH?
I find that fact so completely immature- for a 44 yr old professional woman in a relationship with a man who has children- who is living off and on with them in their home.

Just my opinion- and doesn’t mean anything regarding her Guilt or Not Guilty- but gives more fuel to cause the O’Keefe family to see her in a different light.
She earned part of it

This fact also gives some people ammo to not like her.

But of course I know nothing about JOK’s history with women.
Many of us will be raised to sainthood after death when few of us deserve it.

IMO
I think her only purpose was to make JOK jealous so he could feel how she feels when all the other women pawn over him. Mo
 
  • #336
  • #337
They did, with Yuri reading their texts.
Or tried to, anyway.
IMO.

Yes, true but not through BH for some reason.

Oh the publicity, the man will never work undercover again

IMO
 
  • #338
Do we have any idea when this case is going to wrap up?
No, the third trial has not even been scheduled yet.
 
  • #339
I'm really interested to see what the verdict is on this one. I think (fear) it will be a hung jury again. We are at an advantage in that we know so much from trial 1 and from additional information on the internet that the jury just doesn't know. We also have the benefit of being able to watch and rewatch trial footage to pick apart details. I know I would be fuming if I was on the jury and then read after the fact about all the stuff about Higgins' phone, the FBI, the partygoers, the relationships between all the players, etc. I would feel like I made a decision without being given all the information. I hope the jury is meticulously discerning when they are discussing and analyzing the evidence they actually have been given. There is so much reasonable doubt IMO, that I can't understand anything but a NG verdict, but based on some views just here alone, some people seem to be so locked in to their belief that she hit him, they don't even want to hear any evidence to the contrary and, in fact, seem to blatantly ignore it. Chances are, there is at least one person on the jury who is as equally entrenched in their belief that she hit him no matter what evidence is shown to the contrary (or even willing to acknowledge that there is reasonable doubt). IMO
 
  • #340
I'm really interested to see what the verdict is on this one. I think (fear) it will be a hung jury again. We are at an advantage in that we know so much from trial 1 and from additional information on the internet that the jury just doesn't know. We also have the benefit of being able to watch and rewatch trial footage to pick apart details. I know I would be fuming if I was on the jury and then read after the fact about all the stuff about Higgins' phone, the FBI, the partygoers, the relationships between all the players, etc. I would feel like I made a decision without being given all the information. I hope the jury is meticulously discerning when they are discussing and analyzing the evidence they actually have been given. There is so much reasonable doubt IMO, that I can't understand anything but a NG verdict, but based on some views just here alone, some people seem to be so locked in to their belief that she hit him, they don't even want to hear any evidence to the contrary and, in fact, seem to blatantly ignore it. Chances are, there is at least one person on the jury who is as equally entrenched in their belief that she hit him no matter what evidence is shown to the contrary (or even willing to acknowledge that there is reasonable doubt). IMO
Wholeheartedly agree and add in, as someone else described earlier, where the burden of proof appears to have been transferred to the defence.
Because of what .... "KR looks like type because her eyes are too close together" or something like that?
Trial 3 incoming with a new set of "imaginative preposterosities" which may vary in-trial.
 
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