VERDICT WATCH MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #35 Retrial

[keek]

Actually, just remembered the fall must be flat backwards for the head injuries.
So, phone in hand, means it is in front of the body. you fall flat back to do the head injury but get the phone under you.

How do you do that?

Jen Mc must of found his phone with all her repeat calls to him, no vm left, just ringgg ringggg. Oh, perfect, right out front on the lawn by the street, John's body atop it will be, when someone finds him after he was hit by the plower, ohh change of story, this morn KR just talked hysterically about if she hit him... KR is 'it' IMO

 

[AngTxGal]

To see one person with a PhD discredit another person with a PhD is not something we will see often. After all, this is the highest educational discipline one can achieve. Some of us recognized how Welcher was trying to con us with his blue paint reenactment. It was evident that Dr Rentschler was disgusted in the "science" that Welcher portrayed in his testimony. Professionals who've studied and practised their discipline hate it when other "professionals" claim to follow scientific protocols yet don't actually. It gives the field a bad name when certain characters portray their work as science that is no more than quackery.

Absolutely!
Welcher’s pseudoscience was ridiculous, no matter what degrees Welcher seems to have earned at one time. It was a con, there is no way he thought that was actually science. Welcher took physics back prior to Sir Isaac Newton’s laws of force and motion, when we believed disease was caused by bad air, the sun moved around Earth, and rotting flesh begat flies.
It is embarrassing that people think that was science.
The institution conferring his degree ought to reconsidering his entrance into the realm of ‘scholars’- as there was no evidence of scholarship. He should never do design work.

What does Welcher’s pseudoscience indicate? It is a testament to the lack of science literacy in the American public, law enforcement, press, and the DAs office. The American Education system is to blame.

If our understanding of how the world worked was a lacking as Welcher’s crappy work implies, I would never ride in an air plane- because they would not exist!

IMO

 

[AngTxGal]

Actually, just remembered the fall must be flat backwards for the head injuries.
So, phone in hand, means it is in front of the body. you fall flat back to do the head injury but get the phone under you.

How do you do that?

Your phone is in your back pocket, where mine sits most hours of the day.

IMO

 

[Malleeboy]

That's to be expected, IMO, with almost two foot of snowfall by the end of the day, and not knowing what was underneath it, or where. They had to wait for it to thaw.

In the Vallow Daybell case, police searched Chad Daybell's property in the winter snow, when they were searching for evidence of a shooting there. The following year they discovered the remains of Tylee and JJ had been buried there all along.

Police testified to using the leaf blowers to remove the snow back to the ground level.

 

[Malleeboy]

Your phone is in your back pocket, where mine sits most hours of the day.

IMO

It was found on the ground not in the pocket, are you saying the fall caused it out of the pocket?

 

[AngTxGal]

The phone is the piece that astounds me, must be in his hand, as it is interacted with, but if he is hit it get knocked out of his hand but flies through the air and lands exactly under him.

How would he be interacting with his phone and walk if he had a bar glass in his hand?
What would he do if he stopped to pee on those trees? Where would the phone go? And the bar glass? Can the fly be done with one hand?
Would he put the phone in his back pocket?
I’m asking…

IMO

 

[AngTxGal]

It was found on the ground not in the pocket, are you saying the fall caused it out of the pocket?

I think it is possible.

 

[Tortoise]

Police testified to using the leaf blowers to remove the snow back to the ground level.

Only in the vicinity of where his body had been. It wasn't a thorough search of the wider area because they didn't know, at that time, what had happened to him, so they weren't looking for evidence of a car accident.

 

[MerlinFalcon]

Last year the McCabes and Alberts sat with the O’Keefe family. Does anyone think they will dare to show up tomorrow?

 

[keek]

Your phone is in your back pocket, where mine sits most hours of the day.

IMO

You have no idea, respectfully where his phone was. JMc 's phone was found to have made many in row calls to JOK's phone, not to vm, ring, ring, ring, as was said to be used when looking for your OWN phone. Clearly it was found. This was uncovered in the experts phone investigations to her , along with many other texts and calls she denied.. oops JMc. IMO

 

[TDoc72]

Same same same. And she was the one that made the calls to get people to go with her to find him. They didn't call her. How would they set her up when she is the one that started the search?

The amount of people who would have to be involved in this massive cover up would be huge. I watch interrogations or trials every night. Even with 3 people, 1 always tells.

IMO they didn’t want to set her up. That’s a byproduct. I think they wanted him OUT of the house/garage/basement. I’m kind of surprised they left him on the lawn and didn’t just dump him in the street (off property).

More apologies, I don't follow this 24/7 Was the router time at 1M ever challenged ? I'd find it more than unusual it could be "so far out" from true.

It wasn’t challenged. IIRC I think there was some voicemail evidence that had her walking in his garage right around that time too.

 

[keek]

Last year the McCabes and Alberts sat with the O’Keefe family. Does anyone think they will dare to show up tomorrow?

HMMMM. After today at TB's trial where PO'K had to admit his criminality at that trial, but we think not like that, so, interesting to see. Peg and himself involved. The thing is will they DARE to sit in at the verdict day or be shoving their things into suitcases, no need to worry about the dog as they already took care of that 'problem. IMO

 

[Maat99]

Last year the McCabes and Alberts sat with the O’Keefe family. Does anyone think they will dare to show up tomorrow?

If they do, hopefully the jury will only recognize mean girl Jen since the others weren’t witnesses this time around.

 

[missy1974]

She did it at 12:31:38 as per the running clock in the ADR module of the Lexus.

This is according to the CW ...

The vehicle control history showed events, the events had key cycles connected to them but do NOT have dates/times associated with them. The times on 'events' is a running clock, from the time the vehicle turned on.

The infotainment unit recorded date and time on/time off. It did have dates and times but did not have key cycles. Theoretically, an infotainment can be turned on without a vehicle cycling on/off.
So, Welcher and/or Burgess used a 3 point turn to tie the 2 together, and that is where the CW is getting their time from now, using the running clock from the VCH/techstream data.

The CW's timing has changed, including during this trial, although I think it was by seconds in this trial. (I think from 1st trial to now, they have used 4 different times, all within a 15-20 minute period)

I am interested to see if the Defense addresses this tomorrow in closings.

I'm sure they will say.. IF this was correct, she would have already have left 34F and on her way back to John's. This data does not show any evidence of a collision, no evidence of a sudden slamming on the brakes, etc. I think they had hoped to bring in Trooper Paul's report, but were shut down by the judge, it was at the same time they were shut down about bringing in the ME report during cross examination, and we saw how that turned out a few days ago (re: xrays) .

How'd she making it back to One Meadows in 4:22 minutes? A normal 6 or 7 minute drive in ideal conditions. In the dark, in the snow, and not knowing exactly where she was going?

Would it even give her that much time?

Last health activity on his phone was 12:32:16 I believe.

I guess it depends on clock variance and which way someone wants it to work for this

More apologies, I don't follow this 24/7 Was the router time at 1M ever challenged ? I'd find it more than unusual it could be "so far out" from true.

It is in evidence and I imagine the defense will highlight it tomorrow. She connected to the router at 12:36am (from Trooper Guarino's testimony)


All JMO .. of course

 

[Seattle1]

Wow, just wow! I can't believe she wouldn't change it after the fiasco from last trial.

Exactly! While I agree with the decision by the Appellate Court, this appeal could have been avoided had the Court addressed the confusing verdict slip during charging instructions when it was first introduced. Instead, Cannone famously shrugged off the AJ's concern with the flippant "this is how we do it Mass."

I believe it was reporter Kristina Rex who responded by posting the verdict slip for a similar case which was written just as the defense suggested! I recall the same was posted in the previous and/or T1 thread.

 

[missy1974]

It’s really not, imo. According to multiple polls, postings, videos, etc an overwhelming majority of folks participating are finding her not guilty.

Moo I think the guilty folks have their reasons why they believe she’s guilty, even with all the reasonable doubt.

- some people loathe siding with the majority, so no matter how much exculpatory evidence, they’re just not able to believe it

-some people are outraged by her drunk driving and can’t get past that

-some folks believe she’s toxic, vengeful, abusive, etc., based on her texts and voicemails she left for John, so she had to have done it

-the more exculpatory evidence presented to folks with confirmation bias, the more they tend to dig their heels in

-some people aren’t watching the actual trial and believe information provided by the media

*On some of the social media sites, the vitriol spewed by some folks on the guilty side is truly awful. I’m NOT saying that anyone here has done that. I do want to make that clear. Some of the people who believe she’s guilty are so full of hate and rage towards her, almost as if it’s personal to them. Moo

I have noticed that there are a lot of people that have gone from I think she could have done it or not sure to definitely didn't do it, but not many that have dug in will ever change their minds.

A few weeks ago, I think I could still see a possibilty that she could have hit him, and it was a freak thing, or maybe she didn't know, or something?

But now... I don't know if I can even think of a scenario where he was hit by a car. Why? Because some pretty smart people testified and were quite convincing, and said he was NOT HIT BY A CAR.

I even think that Welcher knows this and that is why he didn't do any real scientific testing, he did what he could, pretended it was sciencey, walked in there with his credentials thinking it would carry enough weight.

I guess we will see if it worked.

all JMO

 

[missy1974]

Yes… especially the 7 butt dials from Jen to John shortly after midnight, of which 0 went to voicemail.

ahh yep, that was good questioning ... stumped her a bit, and she couldn't explain.

I didn't watch her testimony in first trial, was she questioned about it not going to VM then? and how many steps it takes to call and hang up before VM answers? I don't do iphones, so I have no idea how easy/hard it would be to do. Don't think I have ever butt dialed anyone with my phone in all the years I've had one lol

 

[Morag]

I hate to ask, but… I’ve come to this case only recently. Within this past day or so, I read that JM (I think) claimed she had originally done her ‘hos long’ search at the behest of Karen Read. Eventually she admitted that was untrue. Was this something that happened in trial or before? I’m searching diligently for what I read. Thank you.

 

[missy1974]

Actually, just remembered the fall must be flat backwards for the head injuries.
So, phone in hand, means it is in front of the body. you fall flat back to do the head injury but get the phone under you.

How do you do that?

You don't.

JMO

 

[mzmarymac]

I hate to ask, but… I’ve come to this case only recently. Within this past day or so, I read that JM (I think) claimed she had originally done her ‘hos long’ search at the behest of Karen Read. Eventually she admitted that was untrue. Was this something that happened in trial or before? I’m searching diligently for what I read. Thank you.

She has maintained that KR told her to do it and KR has denied that claim. Neither have changed their stories on that.