VERDICT WATCH MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #35 Retrial

[Butt dials r us]

Does anyone know if Jok's phone was smashed and in pieces when found? If it flew out of his hand it sure would've broke.

 

[mpnola]

What's odd to me is the standards applied to these witnesses re allegations of lying, compared to the standards applied to the defendant who we now know 100% lied about driving 24mph in reverse at 34F for the last 3 years.

For me personally if you want to claim everyone else is corrupt and dishonest, you better come to court without deceit.

I guess that is where I land on all this.

MOO

Same same same. And she was the one that made the calls to get people to go with her to find him. They didn't call her. How would they set her up when she is the one that started the search?

The amount of people who would have to be involved in this massive cover up would be huge. I watch interrogations or trials every night. Even with 3 people, 1 always tells.

 

[mzmarymac]

This is the same for me. I've photographed lots of police K-9 demonstrations and have seen dozens of them attack people's arms (with protective gear of course) and JOK's arm looked exactly like where I saw them chomp down. Then the excessive butt dials and the fact that none of the people came out of the house. If there was a dead body on any lawn on my street, even the quiet neighbors would come outside to see the commotion.

Does anyone know if Jok's phone was smashed and in pieces when found? If it flew out of his hand it sure would've broke.

No. Apparently, when hit by a 4000 lb SUV, you will be thrown through the air and the only thing that will break will be the skull and a few scratches to one arm. Everything else will be perfectly intact, other than a taillight.

 

[Bethlamb16]

She created serious confusion with the jury with the sheets as reported by multiple jurors after the trial. They were also under the impression they had to decide all counts together; they thought they could not find her not guilty on one or two counts.

Please understand that the SJC is not reviewing whether the judge's decisions or communications are "adequate" or "good" or "valid". They're reviewing her decision to determine if she did something contrary to established caselaw. As this has likely never happened before in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, they had no choice but to let everything stand.

So the fact that the SJC didn't overturn her finding here is pretty meaningless. She DID confuse the jury last time and needs to do better this time. Much better.

Thank you HarmonyE you said it way better than I did. I would think the Judge would want to avoid any confusion this time around since she is aware of the issue.

 

[Amber29]

Oh, see, I thought she disliked Alessi! I don’t understand how she could dislike anyone on the defense team.

Oh she definitely was annoyed by Alessi the most IMO her sighing heavily and her ok Mr Alessi…so many things she did will stick with me. When she denied a motion for the defense, “I’m denying the motion, your rights are safe..”
I often love the judges in cases, she has been one of the worse.

 

[mpnola]

It is not a crime to drive in reverse 24 miles per hour is it?

I have never seen someone drive 24 mph in reverse after dropping me off. I think when aan ends up dead on the lawn around the time of the 24 mph reversal, that could involve some criminality.

 

[rescuemom]

If I was accused as a 3rd party culprit in a murder and was innocent, I would absolutely file a civil case and clear my name. Brian Higgins won’t do this because he’ll be open for discovery. He’d rather live with the accusations. JMHO.

Several would be on that position.

 

[Anniesflowers]

Regardless, the post I was originally responding to stated that this story did not emerge for months after the event. It was reported to police January 30th, and it was in the affidavit read out in court on February 2nd, 2022.

But no physical reports from LE or first responders? I see that it was stated by the CW, but so we’re lots of other things shown to be false. If a LEO or first responder actually heard this, there would be a report, imo.

 

[Anniesflowers]

Another random question of the day:

What was your first AHA moment when you looked at this case and felt she was not guilty?

For me - it was the photo of JOKs arm. The moment I first saw it I said that those were absolutely from a dog attack. And then from there, so many other AHA moments came about. But I initially thought she was guilty until I saw that arm.

ARCCA report in first trial. Then I started digging into the case a little more. Honestly, I had heard the rumor that there was a video showing that she did indeed hit him, so I thought she must be guilty.

 

[mzmarymac]

I have never seen someone drive 24 mph in reverse after dropping me off. I think when aan ends up dead on the lawn around the time of the 24 mph reversal, that could involve some criminality.

When did she supposedly do this? When Ryan Nagle was parked behind her and didn't see anything as he sat there for 5 minutes? Or was it after he drove past her car seeing her in there alone and somehow JOK was just standing there in the street all that time without being seen wiating for RN to leave and then KR to reverse into him?

 

[jepop]

what fiasco?

the appeal courts upheld Judge Cannone's handling all the way up?

This does not mean the jury was not confused. Clearly they were, from many reports and juror interviews and from jurors contacting both the defense and the PA. I think you know all this since you are familiar with the defense's application to the Supreme Court last year. So these things did actually happen whatever the court's ruling in law. IMO

You seem to be missing the point of why the judge should refuse to alter the instructions simply for clarifying purposes, in order to potentially avoid similar juror confusion this time around. Is it deliberate? Moo

 

[Anniesflowers]

I think she is the only one guilty of hitting him with her 4000lb weapon and killing him.

If you don’t mind answering, why do you think she’s guilty? What convinced you?

 

[mrjitty]

She created serious confusion with the jury with the sheets as reported by multiple jurors after the trial. They were also under the impression they had to decide all counts together; they thought they could not find her not guilty on one or two counts.

Please understand that the SJC is not reviewing whether the judge's decisions or communications are "adequate" or "good" or "valid". They're reviewing her decision to determine if she did something contrary to established caselaw. As this has likely never happened before in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, they had no choice but to let everything stand.

So the fact that the SJC didn't overturn her finding here is pretty meaningless. She DID confuse the jury last time and needs to do better this time. Much better.

The form is a model form. There seems to be some misunderstanding out there that the Judge made up this form - but of course there are many many murder/manslaughter trials in the jurisdiction down the years.

It's fair enough for Yannetti to suggest changes of course, but also understandable the Judge is not going to amend standard forms because of what the likes of Ronnie said on television, especially when what he says is difficult to square with the notes received.

The Appeal Courts approved Judge Cannone because there is direct case law, including from the Supreme Court, on this point.

Blueford v. Arkansas - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

MOO

 

[HarmonyE.]

ARCCA report in first trial. Then I started digging into the case a little more. Honestly, I had heard the rumor that there was a video showing that she did indeed hit him, so I thought she must be guilty.

It was a bit more than a rumor. A local TV news channel and the Boston Globe reported that LE had Ring video of Karen hitting John. The TV channel retracted later; I don't think the Globe ever did. Not sure.

Needless to say, someone was telling a blatant lie. Wonder who would tell the media such a thing? And what they were attempting to accomplish.

 

[mzmarymac]

I just recently saw that there was a service door in the front of the house just to the right of the breezeway door that led to the garage. That would track with KR stating she saw him walk toward the breezeway door.

In my best Monk voice, here's what happened.

The guys were out in the garage smoking, as I would imagine it was not allowed in the house. I'd say BA and BH were in there with Chloe. JOK walked through the door and was either led outside and around the back to the basement, or perhaps everything happened right there in the garage.

I think it was fast. Maybe a few quick angry words, a tussle, dog jumps in, JOK falls and hits his head. People in the house could have easily had zero idea of what happened with people talking loud, music playing, etc...Garage is likely heated or at least somewhat shielded from the cold air outside, meaning JOKs body temp would not cool as quickly, even though he was dead, or at the very least, brain dead and on his way to full physical death.

I think everything else in the house proceeded as planned and people coming and going as expected. I do believe that the wives were clued in at some point. In my opinion, I feel that many other players simply went along with the narrative provided by BA and BH, including the Chief and MP. They simply helped bolster the case against KR because they wanted to make sure she paid for JOKs death, thinking they are noble. I'm not sure they would have gone along with such a cover up if they felt she wasn't guilty, but I can't be sure.

I'm not sure where CA was involved. But I don't think there is a huge conspiracy that includes the kids and friends and all of that. I truly think they don't know what happened. I think a lot of people that are close to the police community tend to believe them over anyone else. I know I typically do, but not in this case.

 

[bobbymkii]

How can it be this difficult to prove someone was hit by a car?

 

[minazoe]

She backed out like Starsky and Hutch. mOO

 

[wackyw]

It is not a crime to drive in reverse 24 miles per hour is it?

Apologies, I'm sure this must have been discussed, but was it proved one way or another that the vehicle did travel at 24 mph and that it was not due to wheel spin or "rounding" of periodic sampling of GPS data ?

edit : "rounding" is the wrong word .... perhaps "max speed/wheelspin" in a recording period would be better ..... still not sure I've described that point correctly !

 

[Anniesflowers]

What's odd to me is the standards applied to these witnesses re allegations of lying, compared to the standards applied to the defendant who we now know 100% lied about driving 24mph in reverse at 34F for the last 3 years.

For me personally if you want to claim everyone else is corrupt and dishonest, you better come to court without deceit.

I guess that is where I land on all this.

MOO

What? Maybe it’s been proven to YOU, but I did not see or hear any evidence that showed, BARD, that she reversed into John. As a matter of fact, I saw and heard LOTS of evidence that a vehicle never struck poor JOK. Moo

 

[HarmonyE.]

Apologies, I'm sure this must have been discussed, but was it proved one way or another that the vehicle did travel at 24 mph and that it was not due to wheel spin or "rounding" of periodic sampling of GPS data ?

Well, according to Hank yesterday, nobody knows nothin' about speed and stuff.