VERDICT WATCH MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #35 Retrial

[turaj]

and it is an insult to the public and the sitting jurors to suggest that it is reasonable to expect those inside the house to look out and come out of the house.

that should be NOT. LOOK OUT

 

[DustysMom]

My own anatomy of a cover-up:

ACTIVE PARTICIPANTS - BA/BH - scuffle with JOK, chloe jumps in, they pull her off too late, but fear their culpability and decide to try to cover it up

AFTER THE FACT CO-CONSPIRATORS WHO KNEW THE TRUTH - possibly JM/NA/MattM (possibly AMc/CA just due to the sketchy texts)

HELPERS WHO WANTED TO MAKE SURE KR DIDN'T "GET AWAY WITH IT" and/or the McAlberts & BH getting blamed for something "they didn't do"- MP/KB

CONFIRMATION BIAS PARTICIPANTS - anyone else who simply believed the McAlberts and the police and went along based upon their trust in this family and law enforcement - First responders (I hit hiim??) LE, etc...

Add in slimy prosecutors who just want a win for the CW at all costs. Perhaps they believe she's guilty. But they certainly have never been on a quest to prove her innocence or dare to look at any other options. $400k for a kindergarten blue man re-enactment??)

I'm sorry, but this theory doesn't seem too far off. There are plenty of examples of cases where people got away with stuff for a long time like Sarah Birchmore's case. Lots of coverup, lying, criminal activity, all by MA LEO, many the same players as here. Jimmy Hoffa, JonBenet Ramsey, Tupac, Biggie, and so many government conspiracies not uncovered for decades. 9 huge government conspiracies that actually happened

So no - I don't think it's that farfetched to believe that KR was framed by a small handful of people and got away with it (or have so far)

Makes more sense than a vehicle hitting him and breaking no bones, and she managed to do it where no one saw or heard a thing even though we know that Ryan Nagle saw JOK in her car and pulled in behind her. Saw her calmly sitting there with hands on 10 and 2 and no sign of JOK, and supposedly JM looking out the window every 2 seconds.

And I’d like to add that KR/Lexus was at 34F for all of 11 minutes. During that time, Ryan &co were there and JMC was looking out the window multiple times.

 

[DustysMom]

I wish I knew for certain where he parked his Jeep. Many have said by the mailbox. But that can't be because Ryan didn't see it. Where did he say he parked it?

I think he really parked it somewhere where KR/JO couldn’t see it.

 

[Forest_Wood]

I did-
Dr L described the wound as being consistent with a raised surface with a texture pattern.
It is not a fact that inside the house is the only location with this description.

I’m not saying the wound was caused by a fall into the yard on dirt- I’m saying there are several raised ledges consistent with what she describes.

She should not have pointed to the garage when there are several steps outside the home, unless she examined and compared them all to the wound.

Would steps down into a garage look exceptionally different than the steps up to the porch?
I don’t know
They would be raised ledges with a texture from brick or concrete, unless they are wooden.

In the images of the house I see
- four brick steps on the outside of the front door
- two brick steps on the outside of the door into the home near the garage
- a brick walkway from the drive to the doors
- and a door to the right into the garage- which the PI that measured distances in the yard evidently saw steps going down

A forensic expert could likely distinguish between these types of steps to see if one of them matches the patterns on the head wound. That would be solid science

IMO

Between about 1:09 to 1:18 Dr L explains what she found to be true about John's head injury and death based on where he was found. She based her conclusions on her knowledge and experience of patterned injuries and on the evidence from the autopsy reports, yard, steps and so on. He was immediately incapacitated, leading to unconsciousness, then the brain swelled, he became severely concussed, his brain stem became compressed from the swelling of the brain pushing down into his brain stem, and his breathing would have stopped within 15-20 minutes of falling.

She tried to identify an object that caused those injuries to his head from the area he was found. Because he was incapacitated immediately and couldn't move, there was nothing in the area where he was found that could have caused those patterns. The dirt/grass could not cause the patterned injury. The flat surface would have only caused a star-shape in the tear only.

She saw a horizontal tear of the scalp, going in the direction from bottom to top. She also saw vertical lines in the back of his head that had a fine granular pattern to it that caused those individual marks, and something had a linear or ridged pattern that broke the scalp. Horizontal line was from a ridged surface. Vertical scraping was from whatever he hit had a granularity to it, with each granular part making those vertical marks. He went back on a ridged object causing a horizontal tear, the ridge was not smooth, with grainy things sticking up which made those vertical marks.

She looked at all the photos taken by police, and the interior of the house and garage (struck from testimony). She was not allowed to say anything about the house or garage. She noted the front lawn area, he was not going to get up and move around after his head was struck (comment struck).

She noticed nothing where he was laying that could have caused the injuries.

She also explained how her discoveries, like any forensic pathologist, is to assist the police to investigate the cause of injuries.

So we still don't know how did he get to the lawn if he was immediately incapacitated from a blunt force fall that caused the pattern of those wounds.

 

[Dawookie]

I have wondered about the vomit too... if he vomited on himself, there had to be signs of it in that fresh white snow? It was cold, it would have froze (sorry, it's gross, but true)

The lack of blood and apparently vomit where he was found have always been a huge flaw in the CWs theory for me. I split my forehead open when I was 5-6 years old and my entire face was covered in blood immediately. Worked as a doorman in a bar for five years, saw multiple head wounds from fights and the same thing. One time had blood splattered on my hands and arms from trying to break up a fight where one girl was getting hit in the face by another girl wearing rings. He had a small laceration over his right eye and a 1.4 in long laceration on the back of his head, blood on his clothes but nothing really on the ground?

 

[Forest_Wood]

I think the defense couldn't afford to have ARCCA do more. Most trials I watch, experts, if they do any testing, looking at data, etc, it is all discoverable (hence the reason Welcher didn't do more, so he wouldn't have to explain his results lol). So I don't even think ARCCA looked at it (which is a shame haha).

I think the defense got some really good advice from some of the 1st trial jurors and even the public in general for this trial. Don't bog it down with stuff that can be argued either way, or call all the people in the house (although, it was the CW that called them all last trial), go with the more definitive science/med testimony, because if he wasn't hit with a car, the rest is just fluff, it isn't their job to figure out what happened.

All JMO

Maybe I didn't explain it properly. Regardless of the reason the defense did not get ARCCA to do that extra work, my question is, why didn't the CW hire ARCCA to do the tech work instead of hiring Aperture if he knew they did the same work? Why go to yet another company to have that work done when they already had ARCCA a phone call away. We already know the answer to that of course because ARCCA could not be bought for a fake re-creation with blue paint.
MOO

 

[Forest_Wood]

DId you notice HB used a clip from ARCCA in his closing, the one where the crash dummy spins around after being hit by the car!
He used it to show something that test was not designed to even show.

IMO

Yes, I saw every sneaky move that HB used to try to manipulate the jury to get his guilty verdict.

 

[Forest_Wood]

I wish we knew more about their garage. Did they usually park their cars in the garage? Or was it used as some kind of hangout space, say to go smoke. I'm really thinking that it happened in the garage. He went through that front side service door to the garage. "The guy never went into the house."

I was surprised there was even a door there to the garage since it wasn't brought up until late into Trial 2 !

 

[Forest_Wood]

that should be NOT. LOOK OUT

As AJ would say, That's a double negative. Can you rephrase? LOL

 

[Forest_Wood]

I think he really parked it somewhere where KR/JO couldn’t see it.

I know that BH testified that his role at his work was in surveillance.
I could so see him sitting in his vehicle in the shadows watching and waiting for some sort of opportunity to cause heartache to KR and JOK simply because they had what he wanted, which was on full display at the Waterfall. Envy. Someone is lying about where his jeep was parked. 4 people said it was parked at the mailbox. 3 people said it was not there when they were there. I believe Ryan Nagel and his friends.

 

[AngTxGal]

Between about 1:09 to 1:18 Dr L explains what she found to be true about John's head injury and death based on where he was found. She based her conclusions on her knowledge and experience of patterned injuries and on the evidence from the autopsy reports, yard, steps and so on. He was immediately incapacitated, leading to unconsciousness, then the brain swelled, he became severely concussed, his brain stem became compressed from the swelling of the brain pushing down into his brain stem, and his breathing would have stopped within 15-20 minutes of falling.

She tried to identify an object that caused those injuries to his head from the area he was found. Because he was incapacitated immediately and couldn't move, there was nothing in the area where he was found that could have caused those patterns. The dirt/grass could not cause the patterned injury. The flat surface would have only caused a star-shape in the tear only.

She saw a horizontal tear of the scalp, going in the direction from bottom to top. She also saw vertical lines in the back of his head that had a fine granular pattern to it that caused those individual marks, and something had a linear or ridged pattern that broke the scalp. Horizontal line was from a ridged surface. Vertical scraping was from whatever he hit had a granularity to it, with each granular part making those vertical marks. He went back on a ridged object causing a horizontal tear, the ridge was not smooth, with grainy things sticking up which made those vertical marks.

She looked at all the photos taken by police, and the interior of the house and garage (struck from testimony). She was not allowed to say anything about the house or garage. She noted the front lawn area, he was not going to get up and move around after his head was struck (comment struck).

She noticed nothing where he was laying that could have caused the injuries.

She also explained how her discoveries, like any forensic pathologist, is to assist the police to investigate the cause of injuries.

So we still don't know how did he get to the lawn if he was immediately incapacitated from a blunt force fall that caused the pattern of those wounds.

Was Dr Lapasada asked specifically about the steps on the outside of the house?
Was she asked about the six inch tall asphalt curb could have caused those injuries?
His shoe was up against that asphalt curb.

The police and the defense team would not have even shown her a photo of that curb if they inferred she may say it was consistent with the wound on his head.
I don’t remember these questions being asked- because they would not benefit either side in this trial if she said- JOKs head is consistent with outside steps or the curb.

If I were the defense- I would show her the steps inside the basement- and tailor questions toward that conclusion. That is what the defense intended to do, but she was stopped.

What would Dr Lapasada tell us if she had full access to the crime scene to do a full investigation independent investigation and share all of what she learned?
I’d like to know

We don’t have all the information here due to a botched investigation.
We can’t ask all the questions we need to be asking.
So we can’t have all the answers.

IMO

 

[Spider92]

I don't care how drunk someone is. If your dog accidentally hurts someone, you don't then turn it into a murder because you've been drinking. Do you know of any other cases where this scenario has happened? (and the Alberts ended up getting rid of Chloe anyway so it wasn't for love of the dog or fear she'd be put down for killing someone)

These people know well the difference between civil and criminal penalties. Drunkeness wouldn't have resulted in them losing that understanding.

I was half kidding about them being too drunk to think logically about the dog. But, I’m serious about the legal stuff - our pet allegedly bit a neighbor. Nobody died, but we got sued, and it went on for many years. Not pleasant. No, we didn’t subsequently manipulate the scene and we certainly did not re-home the pet.

 

[AngTxGal]

I know that BH testified that his role at his work was in surveillance.
I could so see him sitting in his vehicle in the shadows watching and waiting for some sort of opportunity to cause heartache to KR and JOK simply because they had what he wanted, which was on full display at the Waterfall. Someone is lying about where his jeep was parked. 4 people said it was parked at the mailbox. 3 people said it was not there when they were there. I believe Ryan Nagel and his friends.

I agree that the location of BH’s jeep with a plow is important here.
It seems he was asked to move it at some point and he did, but where?

This means if BH was involved, it isn’t mandatory for JOK to have entered the house to confront him.
It also means, if BH confronted JOK on the lawn after KR left, BH decided to leave the body on his friend’s lawn.

If these cops tried to cover up a murder or accidental death they were involved in causing-
Why leave JOKs body on the Albert’s lawn?
If they moved him from inside the house to the flag pole, why not put him in the neighbor’s yard?

What would be the reason for not moving him farther away than they did, if they moved him? They knew a snow plow would be by later, they could have made it look like he was killed by a snow plow.

IMO

 

[Knitty]

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