UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #8

[lee sumner]

Is that what DV wrote?
If so it's his own interpretation of events?
I think DV did some good and interesting work on the case but for me he fits all his facts together in a narrative that produces the conclusion he wants. I felt he leads the reader - I got the impression, And this is my personal view, that he felt contempt for the police officers he interviews. DV knows best.
But again, this is my view and I'm happy to change it if I can be persuaded!

DV was a detective for 3 yrs. i bet he was a terrible investigator.

 

[tes1984]

DV was a detective for 3 yrs. i bet he was a terrible investigator.

You've been criticising all and sundry for a while now, but what's your theory about what actually happened to Suzy?

 

[rvlvr]

But why would she be known for faking appointments? If she was, she probably wouldn’t have a job? Also, there’s a first time for everything.

Not saying you’re wrong, btw, but I don’t think it can be ruled out that it was a fake appointment. Even if she did actually take the keys, the appointment could still be fake.

And conversely, I suppose, the appointment could’ve been genuine but Suzy forgot the keys? She’s apologetic for wasting Kipper’s time, he says ‘never mind, you can let me buy you a drink instead’, the rest is history? I doubt it but you never know!

 

[rvlvr]

A logical choice of venue if your Shorrolds Rd appointment was real - as it's not far - but not so good if your appointment was faked. It's less than a minute on foot from the Sturgis office, hence chance of being spotted.

The preponderance of witness evidence in any case points strongly to SL's presence at the Shorrolds Rd appointment. Her diary entry was not falsified imo.

On the other hand, it being just down the road from the office might explain her leaving her handbag behind, she wasn’t going far and if meeting someone she knew and for a purpose then perhaps she felt she had no need to take it.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

And conversely, I suppose, the appointment could’ve been genuine but Suzy forgot the keys? She’s apologetic for wasting Kipper’s time, he says ‘never mind, you can let me buy you a drink instead’, the rest is history? I doubt it but you never know!

Dyslexic/ADHD type trait esp if stressed or rushed (forgetting) & we know she had the former.

 

[tes1984]

What's the significance other than that they appear to be a desperately unlucky family?

The Met have said Suzy was abducted by JC, who had targeted her in advance.

They named him as the perp in the early 2000s with the blessing of the Lamplughs.

Funny that the Lamplughs didn't consider a random/unplanned abduction, considering that the same thing happened to their younger daughter, out of the blue, six years after Suzy vanished.

 

[Klclevi]

On the other hand, it being just down the road from the office might explain her leaving her handbag behind, she wasn’t going far and if meeting someone she knew and for a purpose then perhaps she felt she had no need to take it.

How ironic & tragic if she didn’t go to 37 & was sitting in Fulham Boulevard until after a few drinks & a broken deal things took rather a unpleasant turn. I am wedded to neither but wonder at an almost banal, overlooked sinister, simplicity to it all (?) ‘In plain sight’.

Also as you said @WestLondoner yes absolutely they had to be doing something between 1pm and 2.45.

I think this makes sense. The car was obviously driven to this laneway - ie she drove the car, potentially via Shorrolds (I guess looking at the map that is Rostrevor Mews?)

Good hiding place for a car if your Boss is around the corner in Crocodile tears.

The taxi driver that came forward after the Oct 86 Crimewatch said he dropped a man with the champagne ribboned bottle in Munster road. (do not know where)

Would he have walked to Shorrolds from there? (google says 3 mins walk so not far at all)

Also thinking about the sighting of the Fiesta driving erratically in Kelvedon Road (CW 2000 does not say what time this was unfortunately but it says the car indicated right off Kelvedon to Fulham Road.

Evening Standard 17.10.86

 

[Klclevi]

Here is a bit more info about HR's sighting which I have never seen before.

Evening Standard Pg 2 30.7.86

 

[Klclevi]

Another interesting couple of pieces.
London Standard 6.8.86 & 8.8.86

 

[Klclevi]

Interesting that this party was hosted by a gemologist...

 

[rvlvr]

very interesting. i had not heard of hughes before reading this.

There’s a mugshot of him online and he’s not a bad ringer for Kipper, allowing for the passing of time and him having a goatee. Would be interesting to know what he was up to back in the ‘80s, can’t imagine the kidnap of the estate agent circa 1990 (when he’d have been late 40s) was his first offence.

 

[rvlvr]

Excellent posts @Klclevi - in particular it’s interesting to see it mentioned that Suzy’s purse was in the glove compartment of her car, this is also where the Suzy Lamplugh Trust say it was found. And on HR, he says he glimpsed the couple outside 37SR for no more than 2-3 seconds, I knew it wasn’t a great look at them that he got but didn’t realise it was that short a time period. And through net curtains! He’s described as seeing ‘Susie’ but as we know now he never actually positively identified seeing her.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

Also as you said @WestLondoner yes absolutely they had to be doing something between 1pm and 2.45.

I think this makes sense. The car was obviously driven to this laneway - ie she drove the car, potentially via Shorrolds (I guess looking at the map that is Rostrevor Mews?)

Good hiding place for a car if your Boss is around the corner in Crocodile tears.

The taxi driver that came forward after the Oct 86 Crimewatch said he dropped a man with the champagne ribboned bottle in Munster road. (do not know where)

Would he have walked to Shorrolds from there? (google says 3 mins walk so not far at all)

Also thinking about the sighting of the Fiesta driving erratically in Kelvedon Road (CW 2000 does not say what time this was unfortunately but it says the car indicated right off Kelvedon to Fulham Road.

Evening Standard 17.10.86

View attachment 646077

Very good posts, cuttings & helpful clear, information.

It’s hard to dispute there weren’t people in the vicinity but were all at same approx time looking at same woman & man near same house? There are 95 odd in road. We have 3 walking witnesses at different times & HR (who sounds more plausible here). JI’s description of the man sounds quite different from HR’s.

EH saw a large, dark saloon car with two men looking ahead in it at 1:10.

Doyle says the pair ‘both looked too smart to be interested in the house’ which is more fitting with its almost incongruous disrepair. Devere’s description quite different saying the house they were outside very smart & nice. They both saw a much blonder woman they said.

The ribbon on the champagne apparently a gimmick re: 1986 wedding of Prince Andrew & Sarah Ferguson re: Peter Dominic - off licence. To me this might fit - if connected - with someone expecting to seal a deal.

No one saw anyone enter a property & all might support if SL & Kipper they were not there long as @rvlvr notes re: HR & good point on visibility via net curtains.

I think it’s interesting police note here ‘Kipper’ name here very likely demonstrably false. This does tell us something.

It’s really odd to me MJ’s evidence not focused on more. She’s the only witness at a location with a factual tie in to SL’s actual car.

BW too has never changed her story & was certain she saw SL which might be at odds with early erratic fiesta driving.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

Excellent posts @Klclevi - in particular it’s interesting to see it mentioned that Suzy’s purse was in the glove compartment of her car, this is also where the Suzy Lamplugh Trust say it was found. And on HR, he says he glimpsed the couple outside 37SR for no more than 2-3 seconds, I knew it wasn’t a great look at them that he got but didn’t realise it was that short a time period. And through net curtains! He’s described as seeing ‘Susie’ but as we know now he never actually positively identified seeing her.

If so on the purse it likely points away from any immediate car jacking - JC style.

 

[Klclevi]

Very good posts, cuttings & helpful clear, information.

It’s hard to dispute there weren’t people in the vicinity but were all at same approx time looking at same woman & man near same house? There are 95 odd in road. We have 3 walking witnesses at different times & HR (who sounds more plausible here). JI’s description of the man sounds quite different from HR’s.

EH saw a large, dark saloon car with two men looking ahead in it at 1:10.

Doyle says the pair ‘both looked too smart to be interested in the house’ which is more fitting with its almost incongruous disrepair. Devere’s description quite different saying the house they were outside very smart & nice. They both saw a much blonder woman they said.

The ribbon on the champagne apparently a gimmick re: 1986 wedding of Prince Andrew & Sarah Ferguson re: Peter Dominic - off licence. To me this might fit - if connected - with someone expecting to seal a deal.

No one saw anyone enter a property & all might support if SL & Kipper they were not there long as @rvlvr notes re: HR & good point on visibility via net curtains.

I think it’s interesting police note here ‘Kipper’ name here very likely demonstrably false. This does tell us something.

It’s really odd to me MJ’s evidence not focused on more. She’s the only witness at a location with a factual tie in to SL’s actual car.

BW too has never changed her story & was certain she saw SL which might be at odds with early erratic fiesta driving.

100% agree with this re MJ.

 

[Klclevi]

Here is another BW article - this one kinda blew me a way tbh.

 

[Rookie D]

The lighting isn’t great here but still brunette when vid shown on crimewatch. This photo was taken on Sat night, sadly the last ever one.

This may be a silly question to ask, but is the tanned male holding Suzie's waist in this photo, confirmed as being her bf?

Her body position compared to his, indicates that she's possibly sitting on his lap.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

This may be a silly question to ask, but is the tanned male holding Suzie's waist in this photo, confirmed as being her bf?

Her body position compared to his, indicates that she's possibly sitting on his lap.

View attachment 646185

She was on someone’s lap. My thinking is it might be the wealthy expat. He likely knew the birthday woman, their social circle very similar & its likely they knew each other via their families, it’s poss he received an independent invitation despite previous recent link with SL. He was cleared. The police did look at all at the party.

AL, boyfriend, wasn’t at the party.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

Here is another BW article - this one kinda blew me a way tbh.

Yes to BW! Her statement points perhaps to some of our theories re: a normal, ‘client’ lunch & then things taking a sinister turn. It’s interesting the police delayed putting these BW details in the public domain to avoid the public & potential witnesses being led up the ‘garden path’.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

@Klclevi I’ve seen this being used I believe as evidence for JC’s feet on ground on day re: ‘Phoebus’ & the reinvestigation in 2000 - in the press. JC was SEEN suited & booted, clutching sales particulars, (it must have been him as looked so much like the photofit) but crucially dropped by taxi NOT in Munster Rd (as article) but Shorrolds Rd.

These small details are so important IMO. We can’t know this man was JC & we can’t assume the very fair woman in Shorrolds was SL (although the odds for latter are admittedly a bit better).