VERDICT WATCH MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #36 Retrial

[Malleeboy]

If Karen Read is found guilty and Massachusetts opinion is line with most polls I've seen, there will be tremendous political pressure on Governor to give her a pardon. Because if around 60% maintain NG, then an opponent will run with that as his part of their platform.

 

[Younger Sister]

I'm not convinced everyone here has watched all or even most of trial. The jury, on the other hand, has seen it all.

Exactly

 

[jepop]

It doesn't matter because there is no medical evidence testified to that John Okeefe was hit by a car. None.

Yep. Cw failed to meet their burden, plenty of UNCOUNTERED credible medical and scientific evidence that JO was NEVER hit by a car, plenty of credible evidence those are dog bites and scratches on JO's arm, NO CREDIBLE scientific evidence they were caused by tail light shards (infact that proposition is an insult to universal common sense IMO). Lol, I have resorted to shouting.

 

[jepop]

the fact that so many here are thinking guilty (a surprise after closing) makes me think we could be in for another hung jury.

Sample size is hardly meaningful, jmo

 

[jepop]

It's not supposition. It's in Ian Whiffin's testimony regarding John's cellphone location data when the Lexus came to a stop, and Ryan Nagel's testimony.

2.16.08

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1.15.50

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And Karen's own words:

Clip 17

[...] Like he’s he’s roughly where I left him so yeah when I found him I was thinking did I like clip him somehow.

2.04.16

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It still amounts to supposition I'm afraid, IMO

 

[jepop]

And those are the facts.
NG BARD.
Thank you for this!
IMO.

Yes NG. G BARD To a Moral Certainty as defined during Jury Instructions has not been met by the prosecution in this trial. Jmo

 

[justwannahelp]

Would have smashed into B.Higgins jeep, that turns out was not there as he said, of course. NO collision to any human being nor dog even, shown by extensive DNA testing, injuries. Nothing, actually. Never happened there. IMO

Nicole Albert in her testimony in trial 1, regarding where Higgins parked, says “I’m not sure. I THOUGHT it was out on the curb maybe by our mailbox, but maaaaybe it was in the driveway?” I’m just……I’m just not 100% sure.”

Sounds like it was indeed parked on curb but someone told her today it was in the driveway.

Start at 21 in (Nicole Albert’s testimony Trial1):

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[Tortoise]

It may be his opinion but it is not Proof IMO

I linked to more than an opinion.

It is expert opinion based on objective phone data which has been proven to be reliable from being matched to the location, orientation and speed of the Lexus in that one journey. It is also uncontroverted eye witness testimony, and it is also an admission from the accused.

All three corroborate the exact same fact of the location of the Lexus near the flagpole, and there is no conflicting testimony to weigh against it.

It is IMO logically proven, beyond a reasonable doubt. One must have a reason to doubt it, and none has been provided.

MOO

 

[thebedbug]

If Karen Read is found guilty and Massachusetts opinion is line with most polls I've seen, there will be tremendous political pressure on Governor to give her a pardon. Because if around 60% maintain NG, then an opponent will run with that as his part of their platform.

I'm going to strongly disagree with all of this.

I can't for the life of me ever imagine a serious politician running on the verdict of the Karen Read trial.

Karen Read gets convicted on Monday and most of the state will have forgotten about her by Wednesday. I know this has elevated importance on websleuths and for the trial junkies, but this is not that big of a deal (for everyone else).

 

[GGbankster]

the fact that so many here are thinking guilty (a surprise after closing) makes me think we could be in for another hung jury.

Karen Read was first portrayed as either vengeance from a "scorned woman" or a violent drunk, but this warped narrative continues despite forensic evidence says otherwise. Social media only makes this distortion worse, stoking outrage and maintaining the false notion that "everyone believes she’s guilty."

Institutional bias only exacerbates the issue. When law enforcement is involved, many people blindly trust authority, even when the evidence is flimsy. They assume the police would never charge someone without a solid reason, conveniently overlooking the fact that the lead investigator was actually dismissed for mishandling this very case.

Additionally, Karen has been reduced to a stereotype, the "Karen." This archetype of the entitled, irrational woman predisposes people, even subconsciously, to desire her guilt to be confirmed.

In my view, this situation extends beyond Karen Read. It reflects how our society treats women accused of crimes, particularly those who do not conform to the "perfect victim" stereotype. These same dynamics were evident during the Salem witch trials.

I hope that our society as a whole can develop the practice of pausing and reflecting first, as bias thrives on quick judgments, and consciously make it a habit to ask ourselves, Is this belief based on facts? Fairness is not a passive state; it requires active resistance against the mental shortcuts we tend to take. Imo

 

[Tortoise]

It doesn't matter because there is no medical evidence testified to that John Okeefe was hit by a car. None.

That wasn't the point raised by the OP.

 

[Morag]

Has anyone googled “tactical brass knuckles”? They have a grooved pattern on them. Just sayin’.

 

[Forest_Wood]

I think that poll was earlier on? Before ARCCA ? Did I miss a second one?

The poll is on-going I believe. It was posted by an admin a few days ago.

If these stats are indicative of the jury, and I'm not convinced they are, then 9 would vote NG, 2 would vote G, with 1 undecided. Does the majority try to get the others to come to their way of thinking?

 

[Forest_Wood]

Was it proven that Karen did a reverse manoeuvre at 34 Fairview? Some are stating that as a fact but I wasn't convinced it happened like that. It seemed as though she did one 3-pt turn when she took a wrong turn on her way there.

 

[Tortoise]

So then where was JOK all that time?

In the vicinity of the flagpole. MOO. His phone never moved again at the end of his 36 steps, and was found there, underneath him, near the flagpole.

The defence witness John Tedeman, who measured some of the distances, testified that it was 78'3" from the mailbox to the side garage door, and double that distance to come back to the flagpole.

He also testified it was "well over 80 feet" from the flagpole to the garage door, and therefore the distance would be well over 160 feet there and back.

John's 36 steps measured a total of 82 feet (25 meters) to when his phone stopped moving and its battery temperature started dropping immediately. He was interacting with his phone during those steps, unlocking it, reading Jen's last message 'pull behind me', and then locking it again.

He couldn't have gone to the house and back, without recording additional steps and/or phone movement. IMO

John Tedeman's cross-examination
Starts at 5.58.39

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[Izzylizzy]

Here's a look at the charges as they appear on the verdict slip:

Offense 001: Murder in the Second Degree

In the above-entitled case, we the Jury say that the Defendant is:

1.___ Not Guilty

2. ___Guilty of Offense as Charged: Murder in the Second Degree

Offense 002 - Manslaughter while Operating a Motor Vehicle under the Influence of Liquor

In the above-entitled case, we the Jury say that the Defendant is:

1. __Not Guilty of the offense charged or any lesser included offense.

2. __Guilty of offense as charged: Manslaughter while Operating a Motor Vehicle under the Influence of Liquor

( check one or both of the following):

__Manslaughter while Operating a Motor Vehicle under the Influence of Liquo

cont:

Verdict slips: Choices Karen Read jurors face

The jury, which is made up of seven men and five women, will return verdict slips to Judge Beverly Cannone when deliberations come to an end.

www.wcvb.com

 

[MMurphy]

For me, it all comes down to the hardest of the hard facts. There is a dead body in the snow. It belongs to John O'Keefe, who exited Karen Read's car just a few feet away. After exiting the car, KR does a reverse turn at about 24 mph and, probably accidentally, hits JOK. The evidence? JOK's dead body is in the snow. There is no hard evidence JOK ever went into the house. There is no hard evidence that someone in the house murdered JOK. As far as I know, there are no drag marks or footprints in the snow indicating the placement of a body there. All the other testimony, such as about broken tail lights and such, is distracting from the hard facts. Those for and against "guilty or not guilty" can cherry-pick testimony that "proves" their point. I don't know why JOK had cuts on his arm. I don't know why the residents of the house didn't wake up when all the activity was going on later. I don't know where and how the tail light was broken. It doesn't change the fact that JOK's body is lying a few feet away from where KR dropped him off.

I believe that there was no conspiracy among the folks in the house. I probably wouldn't like those people if I knew them. I abhor their drinking culture. I know that culture very well having lived in similar communities. Unfortunately, JOK was part of that culture. I don't think I would have liked him either. He should have known better than to let a very drunk KR drive. If one of the "McAlbert" crowd did kill JOK, there is no way all the others in the house conspired to blame it on KR. They couldn't keep that secret because they are such heavy drinkers it would come out eventually. Alcohol is like a truth serum. They believe KR hit JOK because he is dead on the lawn and they know that no one in the house did it. Therefore, they cooperated in getting the actual facts straight because they wanted justice for JOK. Cooperating on getting the actual facts straight is not a conspiracy to cover up a murder.

KR will probably get acquitted or maybe there will be mistrial. There were too many paid experts on both sides, which created a lot of noise and distracted from the hardest of the hard facts: that JOK's dead body is on the lawn after exiting KR's car just a few feet away from where a very drunk and angry KR then reversed the car, probably accidentally hit him, and drove away in a huff. But she couldn't escape the thought during moments of lucidity that she may have hit him, and that dictated her actions through the wee hours to come. If she is acquitted, I hope his loved ones find some solace in that she has spent the last three years in a punishing purgatory.

IMO.

I thought the 3-pt turn was on Cedar View when John was in the car with her. When they got lost.

 

[MerlinFalcon]

I'm going to strongly disagree with all of this.

I can't for the life of me ever imagine a serious politician running on the verdict of the Karen Read trial.

Karen Read gets convicted on Monday and most of the state will have forgotten about her by Wednesday. I know this has elevated importance on websleuths and for the trial junkies, but this is not that big of a deal (for everyone else).

It’s been on Dateline and is being followed worldwide. It’s right up there with many of the other high profile trials so I don’t think it will be forgotten that quickly.

 

[AngTxGal]

Was it proven that Karen did a reverse manoeuvre at 34 Fairview? Some are stating that as a fact but I wasn't convinced it happened like that. It seemed as though she did one 3-pt turn when she took a wrong turn on her way there.

I’m with you on this, I don’t know if they have strong evidence that she did a three point turn after stopping to let him out, or even if they have strong evidence of when she backed her car up, or where she was when she began this backing up so quickly over 80 some odd feet.

If she backed up 80 feet or so, and contacted him near the flag pole- she would have begun her backing from the other side of the neighbor’s yard, or in the driveway across the street?

I didn’t find details on this either- maybe someone else knows.
A diagram would help- but I’m guessing we don’t have one from the trial as it would bring forth many other questions that don’t have answers.

IMO

 

[Izzylizzy]

I'm going to strongly disagree with all of this.

I can't for the life of me ever imagine a serious politician running on the verdict of the Karen Read trial.

Karen Read gets convicted on Monday and most of the state will have forgotten about her by Wednesday. I know this has elevated importance on websleuths and for the trial junkies, but this is not that big of a deal (for everyone else).

BBM:

"Dark cloud over the community"​

"I think it's brought a dark cloud over the community," a resident named Hadley told WBZ.

"Katherine Murphy agreed saying, "Everybody, especially if they find out I live in Canton, is like what do you think of the Karen Read trial? What do you know?" she said. "I have friends that live in England, and they've even been following it and asked me 'Do you have any good insights?'"


The case has garnered both local and national attention. These residents say it's torn their community and many longtime friendships apart. "Unfortunately, when they found out they had a difference of opinion they're not friends anymore," White said.


cont

Town of Canton divided over Karen Read trial, "a lot of distrust, a lot of anger"

Residents of Canton, Massachusetts are looking forward to restoring peace in the town that's been divided by the high-profile case.

www.cbsnews.com