VERDICT WATCH MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #36 Retrial

[Izzylizzy]

I'm going to strongly disagree with all of this.

I can't for the life of me ever imagine a serious politician running on the verdict of the Karen Read trial.

Karen Read gets convicted on Monday and most of the state will have forgotten about her by Wednesday. I know this has elevated importance on websleuths and for the trial junkies, but this is not that big of a deal (for everyone else).

BBM:


'Karen Read murder trial getting global attention'

 

[Spider92]

The poll is on-going I believe. It was posted by an admin a few days ago.

If these stats are indicative of the jury, and I'm not convinced they are, then 9 would vote NG, 2 would vote G, with 1 undecided. Does the majority try to get the others to come to their way of thinking?

That’s the way I’ve always thought it works and is logical. However, Bev said something that surprised me, and I can’t find a transcript of her jury instructions to confirm it, but I believe it was something like this ~ “if you are convinced that your position is right, do not vote the other way just to appease the majority of the jurors”.

 

[lohrtabitha]

Karen Read was first portrayed as either vengeance from a "scorned woman" or a violent drunk, but this warped narrative continues despite forensic evidence says otherwise. Social media only makes this distortion worse, stoking outrage and maintaining the false notion that "everyone believes she’s guilty."

Institutional bias only exacerbates the issue. When law enforcement is involved, many people blindly trust authority, even when the evidence is flimsy. They assume the police would never charge someone without a solid reason, conveniently overlooking the fact that the lead investigator was actually dismissed for mishandling this very case.

Additionally, Karen has been reduced to a stereotype, the "Karen." This archetype of the entitled, irrational woman predisposes people, even subconsciously, to desire her guilt to be confirmed.

In my view, this situation extends beyond Karen Read. It reflects how our society treats women accused of crimes, particularly those who do not conform to the "perfect victim" stereotype. These same dynamics were evident during the Salem witch trials.

I hope that our society as a whole can develop the practice of pausing and reflecting first, as bias thrives on quick judgments, and consciously make it a habit to ask ourselves, Is this belief based on facts? Fairness is not a passive state; it requires active resistance against the mental shortcuts we tend to take. Imo

This is beautifully stated here. A thousand times AMEN!

 

[lohrtabitha]

Has anyone googled “tactical brass knuckles”? They have a grooved pattern on them. Just sayin’.

That and a back of the head pistol whipped.

 

[mzmarymac]

That and a back of the head pistol whipped.

I've heard the pistol whipped theory before, but wonder if a pistol whip could crack someone's head open like that.

ETA: Pattern injuries from blows with the muzzle end of a handgun - PubMed
Interesting:

"Pistols, revolvers and blank guns are not only used to discharge cartridges, but also for hits to the victim. In such cases, the blows preferably affect the head and/or the interposed hands protecting the body. The impact is mostly exerted either by the grip of a pistol or the butt of a revolver. In vigorous thrusts inflicted with the muzzle end of the weapon, the edge of the barrel may produce circular punch lesions with central skin flaps roughly corresponding to the bore. As in other kinds of pistol-whipping, the scalp wounds may be associated with fractures of the skull and even with brain contusions. Using the example of a homicide committed by pistol-whipping, the morphological features of blunt injuries from a handgun's muzzle are presented. The characteristic wound pattern found on the victim's head could be reproduced experimentally by forceful blows to the forehead of a slaughtered pig. In the case presented, the dominant hand of the perpetrator showed friction blisters due to prolonged striking with an unhandy tool in the form of a pistol."

 

[Spider92]

BBM:

"Dark cloud over the community"​

"I think it's brought a dark cloud over the community," a resident named Hadley told WBZ.

"Katherine Murphy agreed saying, "Everybody, especially if they find out I live in Canton, is like what do you think of the Karen Read trial? What do you know?" she said. "I have friends that live in England, and they've even been following it and asked me 'Do you have any good insights?'"


The case has garnered both local and national attention. These residents say it's torn their community and many longtime friendships apart. "Unfortunately, when they found out they had a difference of opinion they're not friends anymore," White said.


cont

Town of Canton divided over Karen Read trial, "a lot of distrust, a lot of anger"

Residents of Canton, Massachusetts are looking forward to restoring peace in the town that's been divided by the high-profile case.

www.cbsnews.com

Yes, the case has generated a lot of attention, and I’m sure, regardless of the verdict, KR will do her best to stay in the limelight, but whether, and how fast, the story fades out will depend on what’s next in the daily news flow.

As for longtime friendships being lost, I think that’s sad and ridiculous, and I’d question whether it was much of a friendship to begin with. I can understand if friendships are lost by some trial participants (insert picture of MP here). I can understand differences of opinion in a presidential election impacting social choices, but I think it’s pathetic if longtime friends are lost by casual observers of this case just because they see it differently.

 

[mzmarymac]

WARNING GRAPHIC IMAGES:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2665910722000457

Great scientific article about pistol whip injuries to the head. The first photo, IMO, looks very similar to JOKs injury.

 

[tricia]

The poll is on-going I believe. It was posted by an admin a few days ago.

Yes, the poll will remain open until the jury returns with a verdict.
You can change your vote. CLICK HERE and take our poll.
Thank you,
Tricia

 

[mzmarymac]

In the vicinity of the flagpole. MOO. His phone never moved again at the end of his 36 steps, and was found there, underneath him, near the flagpole.

The defence witness John Tedeman, who measured some of the distances, testified that it was 78'3" from the mailbox to the side garage door, and double that distance to come back to the flagpole.

He also testified it was "well over 80 feet" from the flagpole to the garage door, and therefore the distance would be well over 160 feet there and back.

John's 36 steps measured a total of 82 feet (25 meters) to when his phone stopped moving and its battery temperature started dropping immediately. He was interacting with his phone during those steps, unlocking it, reading Jen's last message 'pull behind me', and then locking it again.

He couldn't have gone to the house and back, without recording additional steps and/or phone movement. IMO

John Tedeman's cross-examination
Starts at 5.58.39

I really wish there was a map somewhere of where the CW says where they say she started from and where she supposedly backed into him and how he ended up where he did. Where exactly was the 3-point turn? Where was he when she hit him and from what direction. None of it makes sense to me and I really need someone to draw me a picture.

 

[keek]

I'm going to strongly disagree with all of this.

I can't for the life of me ever imagine a serious politician running on the verdict of the Karen Read trial.

Karen Read gets convicted on Monday and most of the state will have forgotten about her by Wednesday. I know this has elevated importance on websleuths and for the trial junkies, but this is not that big of a deal (for everyone else).

Very wrong, thankfully !! Dismissiveness would be on your part, way of looking at life, but not the rest of us, we do the dirty work for the lax who usually benefit. IMO

 

[missy1974]

Yes, the poll will remain open until the jury returns with a verdict.
You can change your vote. CLICK HERE and take our poll.
Thank you,
Tricia

I originally voted I don't know about 2 weeks into the trial ... and have changed my vote to NG in recent days Easy to change your vote if you have changed your mind along the way!

 

[Wishbone]

I linked to more than an opinion.

It is expert opinion based on objective phone data which has been proven to be reliable from being matched to the location, orientation and speed of the Lexus in that one journey. It is also uncontroverted eye witness testimony, and it is also an admission from the accused.

All three corroborate the exact same fact of the location of the Lexus near the flagpole, and there is no conflicting testimony to weigh against it.

It is IMO logically proven, beyond a reasonable doubt. One must have a reason to doubt it, and none has been provided.

MOO

I don't believe him or find him credible and it is not proof IMO

 

[lohrtabitha]

I've heard the pistol whipped theory before, but wonder if a pistol whip could crack someone's head open like that.

ETA: Pattern injuries from blows with the muzzle end of a handgun - PubMed
Interesting:

"Pistols, revolvers and blank guns are not only used to discharge cartridges, but also for hits to the victim. In such cases, the blows preferably affect the head and/or the interposed hands protecting the body. The impact is mostly exerted either by the grip of a pistol or the butt of a revolver. In vigorous thrusts inflicted with the muzzle end of the weapon, the edge of the barrel may produce circular punch lesions with central skin flaps roughly corresponding to the bore. As in other kinds of pistol-whipping, the scalp wounds may be associated with fractures of the skull and even with brain contusions. Using the example of a homicide committed by pistol-whipping, the morphological features of blunt injuries from a handgun's muzzle are presented. The characteristic wound pattern found on the victim's head could be reproduced experimentally by forceful blows to the forehead of a slaughtered pig. In the case presented, the dominant hand of the perpetrator showed friction blisters due to prolonged striking with an unhandy tool in the form of a pistol."

I don't know but Alessi kept referring to the "J" shape on the back of John's head. What made that shape? I also saw a hand weight with a nike swoosh symbol . If their was one of those in the basement and John fell backwards onto it, then it could explain that mark. It will remain a mystery unless someone caves . Imo

 

[missy1974]

I really wish there was a map somewhere of where the CW says where they say she started from and where she supposedly backed into him and how he ended up where he did. Where exactly was the 3-point turn? Where was he when she hit him and from what direction. None of it makes sense to me and I really need someone to draw me a picture.

They had a map of where they think the 3 point turn was... they did NOT show in front of the house. IMO that was by design, because it doesn't work for them.. No signs of her going up over the curb and on to the lawn, IF BH's Jeep was parked there, she surely would have hit it. And John.. was he just standing there waiting to be hit? The CW couldn't show anything because they just don't know and there is nothing they can show because then the jury would see how unplausible it was IMO.

IF the events happened at that time, 1 Meadows is 2.3-2.8 miles from 34F, depending on the route, it could have happened on her way back to Meadows. It would have had to happen within or under a mile from Fairview.

JMO

 

[lohrtabitha]

Yes, the case has generated a lot of attention, and I’m sure, regardless of the verdict, KR will do her best to stay in the limelight, but whether, and how fast, the story fades out will depend on what’s next in the daily news flow.

As for longtime friendships being lost, I think that’s sad and ridiculous, and I’d question whether it was much of a friendship to begin with. I can understand if friendships are lost by some trial participants (insert picture of MP here). I can understand differences of opinion in a presidential election impacting social choices, but I think it’s pathetic if longtime friends are lost by casual observers of this case just because they see it differently.

I don't agree with you here. If you have studied the American Civil War 1861-1865, you would remember that family's were torn apart because members were fighting on opposing sides. Basically, it came down to personal views. So yes personal views can rip families and true friendships apart. Imo

 

[lohrtabitha]

I've heard the pistol whipped theory before, but wonder if a pistol whip could crack someone's head open like that.

ETA: Pattern injuries from blows with the muzzle end of a handgun - PubMed
Interesting:

"Pistols, revolvers and blank guns are not only used to discharge cartridges, but also for hits to the victim. In such cases, the blows preferably affect the head and/or the interposed hands protecting the body. The impact is mostly exerted either by the grip of a pistol or the butt of a revolver. In vigorous thrusts inflicted with the muzzle end of the weapon, the edge of the barrel may produce circular punch lesions with central skin flaps roughly corresponding to the bore. As in other kinds of pistol-whipping, the scalp wounds may be associated with fractures of the skull and even with brain contusions. Using the example of a homicide committed by pistol-whipping, the morphological features of blunt injuries from a handgun's muzzle are presented. The characteristic wound pattern found on the victim's head could be reproduced experimentally by forceful blows to the forehead of a slaughtered pig. In the case presented, the dominant hand of the perpetrator showed friction blisters due to prolonged striking with an unhandy tool in the form of a pistol."

Yep, and it would be a blunt forced trauma injury that can cause death.

 

[ShadyLady]

It may be his opinion but it is not Proof IMO

I think some of us will through out all of Aperture's magical thinking....like jumping through the eye of a needle....

 

[missy1974]

The jury is said to be fairly "young"...

How do you think they will feel about some of the data?

They probably have experience with the "health data" on iphones, messaging apps like Signal, Waze app, location services.

Do you think they will put as much weight into that information as some of us do? Do you think they will think it's 100% accurate?

I may ask my adult kids today if they think that data from their phones is accurate lol

 

[ShadyLady]

I linked to more than an opinion.

It is expert opinion based on objective phone data which has been proven to be reliable from being matched to the location, orientation and speed of the Lexus in that one journey. It is also uncontroverted eye witness testimony, and it is also an admission from the accused.

All three corroborate the exact same fact of the location of the Lexus near the flagpole, and there is no conflicting testimony to weigh against it.

It is IMO logically proven, beyond a reasonable doubt. One must have a reason to doubt it, and none has been provided.

MOO

Why was there an Edge parked by the flag pole at 3:30am??

 

[ShadyLady]

Has anyone googled “tactical brass knuckles”? They have a grooved pattern on them. Just sayin’.

Wasn't there a small "J" pattern on John's head as well?