VERDICT WATCH MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #36 Retrial

[lohrtabitha]

Why was there an Edge parked by the flag pole at 3:30am??

Exactly! Chris Albert had an edge. Did he come over to help move the body?

 

[missy1974]

Wasn't there a small "J" pattern on John's head as well?

I wonder if that is one of the scratches that Dr. L pointed out? When she was testifying, we didn't see the pictures as she was pointing out the scratches and explaining to the jury why she concluded it was a granular ridged surface that he hit.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

I have not followed, and knew nothing about, this trial at all except for listening to the closing arguments on Friday. I know it means nothing but my take from what I heard would be not guilty. Not because I am sure KA didn't cause his death but because there is reasonable doubt that she did. Happy for you to change my mind.

 

[Izzylizzy]

I can totally understand how the arrest and trial of KR divided Canton area and Boston's residents and friends.

The KR trail is the catalyst that exposed the behind the scenes shenanigans and people are rightly concerned knowing that they or a loved one could be next or believe that they or a friend/relative was already caught up in it with a prior arrest and/or conviction.
IMO

 

[AngTxGal]

I'm going to strongly disagree with all of this.

I can't for the life of me ever imagine a serious politician running on the verdict of the Karen Read trial.

Karen Read gets convicted on Monday and most of the state will have forgotten about her by Wednesday. I know this has elevated importance on websleuths and for the trial junkies, but this is not that big of a deal (for everyone else).

An interesting thought, Yes I can see how a verdict in a high profile case that implicates LE and could lead to implications of higher up officials, and warranted an FBI investigation could lead to political pull.

Government overreach and corruption is a national issue, that fueled the protests yesterday.

If KR’s arrest, trial, and 2nd trial, overlooking the 1st jury’s votes, and then a Guilty verdict is viewed as a sign of government overreach and corruption- Yes a politician could use this as advantage.

Would it be the first time such a high profile trial fueled existing political unrest? No
The Chicago 7 would be one of the best examples that come to mind. (No I’m not old enough to remember.)
Of course KR trial is not as famous but it could be used as a symbol of corruption and government overreach- as will Abuego Garcia’s trail.

IMO

 

[skyedaze]

The thing I can't get past is the arm....those are dog teeth marks and claw marks. I 've seen that before on people I know. Also, the arm had not one broken bone or bruise. I also know people who have been "bumped" by a car for various (drunk) reasons and they had broken bones....but JOK did not.
You can say all you want about data...I love data. But, the arm wounds and condition of the bones do not support the thought of being hit by an SUV. That's a flat out fact you can see, touch and measure. I would be open to, but have yet to see or hear a valid explanation otherwise.

 

[DustysMom]

Wasn't there a small "J" pattern on John's head as well?

Was there an autopsy photo? In response to Morag I did look up tactical brass knuckles and they come in many shapes with a variety of ‘knuckle’ edges that would produce a variety of injury shapes.

 

[Izzylizzy]

I have not followed, and knew nothing about, this trial at all except for listening to the closing arguments on Friday. I know it means nothing but my take from what I heard would be not guilty. Not because I am sure KA didn't cause his death but because there is reasonable doubt that she did. Happy for you to change my mind.

." Not because I am sure KA didn't cause his death but because there is reasonable doubt that she did"

Don't ever discredit yourself for how and where you landed.
Many agree with you and spent years following the case.
IMO

 

[Morag]

I seem to recall that someone made a few passes on the driveway with a snowplow, even though there was only a dusting of snow at the time. Who was that driving and at what point during the evening/overnight did it occur? Thank you.

 

[ShadyLady]

The thing I can't get past is the arm....those are dog teeth marks and claw marks. I 've seen that before on people I know. Also, the arm had not one broken bone or bruise. I also know people who have been "bumped" by a car for various (drunk) reasons and they had broken bones....but JOK did not.
You can say all you want about data...I love data. But, the arm wounds and condition of the bones do not support the thought of being hit by an SUV. That's a flat out fact you can see, touch and measure. I would be open to, but have yet to see or hear a valid explanation otherwise.

Data can be manipulated but our eyes see what they see.

 

[Sadi]

Yes, the case has generated a lot of attention, and I’m sure, regardless of the verdict, KR will do her best to stay in the limelight, but whether, and how fast, the story fades out will depend on what’s next in the daily news flow.

As for longtime friendships being lost, I think that’s sad and ridiculous, and I’d question whether it was much of a friendship to begin with. I can understand if friendships are lost by some trial participants (insert picture of MP here). I can understand differences of opinion in a presidential election impacting social choices, but I think it’s pathetic if longtime friends are lost by casual observers of this case just because they see it differently.

I cannot stand it when KR smiles or has a smirk on her face when she was in the courtroom. Ugh!

 

[lohrtabitha]

I wonder if that is one of the scratches that Dr. L pointed out? When she was testifying, we didn't see the pictures as she was pointing out the scratches and explaining to the jury why she concluded it was a granular ridged surface that he hit.

I don't know but Alessi was talking about it this trial to one of the experts.

 

[cocomod]

Karen Read was first portrayed as either vengeance from a "scorned woman" or a violent drunk, but this warped narrative continues despite forensic evidence says otherwise. Social media only makes this distortion worse, stoking outrage and maintaining the false notion that "everyone believes she’s guilty."

Institutional bias only exacerbates the issue. When law enforcement is involved, many people blindly trust authority, even when the evidence is flimsy. They assume the police would never charge someone without a solid reason, conveniently overlooking the fact that the lead investigator was actually dismissed for mishandling this very case.

Additionally, Karen has been reduced to a stereotype, the "Karen." This archetype of the entitled, irrational woman predisposes people, even subconsciously, to desire her guilt to be confirmed.

In my view, this situation extends beyond Karen Read. It reflects how our society treats women accused of crimes, particularly those who do not conform to the "perfect victim" stereotype. These same dynamics were evident during the Salem witch trials.

I hope that our society as a whole can develop the practice of pausing and reflecting first, as bias thrives on quick judgments, and consciously make it a habit to ask ourselves, Is this belief based on facts? Fairness is not a passive state; it requires active resistance against the mental shortcuts we tend to take. Imo

Quoting your post because it is simply a great post! This is also how I feel and have felt for some time.

We should all be terrified that a system can be so corrupt to over-charge a woman especially when the investigation was so incomplete, so shoddy (no chain of custody, red solo cups, grocery sack from neighbor, etc…), and completely bias from the first hour!

 

[ShadyLady]

I cannot stand it when KR smiles or has a smirk on her face when she was in the courtroom. Ugh!

She as been through hell and back. And has fought through horrible health issues. So I give her a break. She might annoy some people but that does not mean she is guilty of a crime.

 

[ShadyLady]

Quoting your post because it is simply a great post! This is also how I feel and have felt for some time.

We should all be terrified that a system can be so corrupt to over-charge a woman especially when the investigation was so incomplete, so shoddy (no chain of custody, red solo cups, grocery sack from neighbor, etc…), and completely bias from the first hour!

It did not help that "someone" was spreading rumors that there was a video of Karen hitting John.

And that "rumor" got into the papers, I wonder how.

 

[Spectrix]

Wasn't there a small "J" pattern on John's head as well?

I wonder if that is one of the scratches that Dr. L pointed out? When she was testifying, we didn't see the pictures as she was pointing out the scratches and explaining to the jury why she concluded it was a granular ridged surface that he hit.

Autopsy Photo as shown in Dr Elizabeth Laposata's testimony (from the Boston Globe)
The granular pattern is visible through the wound and below it.
The J pattern is visible on the left in line with the 1CM marker.


The eye wound was also discussed:

<modsnip: Post Mortem images are not allowed. Links may be used with a "GRAPHIC IMAGES AT LINK" warning>

 

[keek]

Autopsy Photo as shown in Dr Elizabeth Laposata's testimony (from the Boston Globe)
The granular pattern is visible through the wound and below it.
The J pattern is visible on the left above the 1CM marker.

<modsnip: Post Mortem images are not allowed. Links may be used with a "GRAPHIC IMAGES AT LINK" warning>

That J mark could be 'matched up' with the wound itself next to it I would think. This would be for later I hope. IMO

 

[keek]

That J mark could be 'matched up' with the wound itself next to it I would think. This would be for later I hope. IMO

I meant to say if a weight as suggested, same weight can be found elsewhere and used for comparison if future investigation goes forward. IMO

 

[ShadyLady]

I dont like looking at photos...but they say a lot. That cut on his eye did not come from falling backwards. IMO

And the J is clearly visibly. I have fallen backwards and all I got was a big lump, not a deep cut. Looks more to me like someone hit him with a pole like object.

 

[Sadi]

She as been through hell and back. And has fought through horrible health issues. So I give her a break. She might annoy some people but that does not mean she is guilty of a crime.

She as been through hell and back. And has fought through horrible health issues. So I give her a break. She might annoy some people but that does not mean she is guilty of a crime.

I didn’t mention anything about her being guilty or not guilty. Just shared my opinion about her expressions. We’re able to have our own opinions etc.