VERDICT WATCH MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #36 Retrial

[iamshadow21]

I meant to say if a weight as suggested, same weight can be found elsewhere and used for comparison if future investigation goes forward. IMO

Except it won't be a J.

That's a reverse impression of whatever that was.

MOO

 

[ShadyLady]

I didn’t mention anything about her being guilty or not guilty. Just shared my opinion about her expressions. We’re able to have our own opinions etc.

ok, I understand. Just sometimes a bias enters into a judgement.

 

[Sadi]

ok, I understand. Just sometimes a bias enters into a judgement.

Nope, not at all. Thank you

 

[mzmarymac]

Except it won't be a J.

That's a reverse impression of whatever that was.

MOO

Nike Swoosh (Apparently, CA wears football cleats matching this, but not sure what that even means - kicked in the head? In addition to the cracked skull? IDK

 

[Tortoise]

Why was there an Edge parked by the flag pole at 3:30am??

I believe Lucky got himself mixed up with his memory.

He told the defence PI he was on Cedarcrest when he saw the Ford Edge outside 34 Fairview at 3.30 to 4am.

He told the FBI in 2023 under penalty of perjury that he saw the emergency vehicles outside 34 Fairview at 3.30 am.

Brennan showed a plow passing on Cedarcrest seven times between 6.19 am and 7.20 am, and the flagpole area was lit up by police car headlights.

Lally referred to it as rubbernecking, and credibility issues, at the hearing on Jun 12th.

Kerry Roberts' Ford Edge was parked at 34 Fairview by the flagpole when the snow plow made all those passes on Cedarcrest, captured on the police car dashcam.

Last year he couldn't remember the last time he made a pass on Fairview, and had to guess. This year he remembers. Is that a memory that improves years later?

He remembers looking at the Albert's front door but didn't see a massive red dumpster on their neighbor's front yard.

Seriously not credible witness testimony. IMO

 

[Spectrix]

I meant to say if a weight as suggested, same weight can be found elsewhere and used for comparison if future investigation goes forward. IMO

Keek, you're suggesting a weight as in a cast iron weight causing that head wound? I agree, and my earliest thoughts was of JOK being pushed backwards while he was in the basement/home gym area, and falling onto rough cast iron weights (or being struck over the back of the head with one).

Rough cast iron can account for both the granular pattern and the J.
I actually think it's more likely than the concrete step scenario, note that the head wound is quite narrow at around 1 inch / 2.5 cm. With a concrete step I would expect a wider wound, or marks horizontally either side of that wound.

 

[iamshadow21]

Nike Swoosh (Apparently, CA wears football cleats matching this, but not sure what that even means - kicked in the head? In addition to the cracked skull? IDK

To be honest, I don't think it's any kind of letter or symbol at all. Under the redness to the right of it, you can see two more arc shapes of a similar dimension. He either landed on or was hit with something, once or repeatedly, that left that impression.

MOO

 

[keek]

To be honest, I don't think it's any kind of letter or symbol at all. Under the redness to the right of it, you can see two more arc shapes of a similar dimension. He either landed on or was hit with something, once or repeatedly, that left that impression.

MOO

I have always thought he was hit with great force to the back of his head, not a fall, but. IMO

 

[lohrtabitha]

To be honest, I don't think it's any kind of letter or symbol at all. Under the redness to the right of it, you can see two more arc shapes of a similar dimension. He either landed on or was hit with something, once or repeatedly, that left that impression.

MOO

Maybe the truth of the whole horrid event will leak out one day. I'm not holding my breath, but one can pray. Mo

 

[DustysMom]

The thing I can't get past is the arm....those are dog teeth marks and claw marks. I 've seen that before on people I know. Also, the arm had not one broken bone or bruise. I also know people who have been "bumped" by a car for various (drunk) reasons and they had broken bones....but JOK did not.
You can say all you want about data...I love data. But, the arm wounds and condition of the bones do not support the thought of being hit by an SUV. That's a flat out fact you can see, touch and measure. I would be open to, but have yet to see or hear a valid explanation otherwise.

Agree -
and speaking of data, the Health (NOT Healthcare Hank!) App on an iPhone is not always reliable when it comes to recording walking steps (or stair climbing). iPhones use a motion coprocessor, accelerometer and gyroscope sensors to detect movement. In essence, the app is measuring the jiggling movement of the phone. Two people walking side by side on the same path can have a significantly different number of steps recorded. Source - myself and other walkers both in AZ and IL over the last decade. Furthermore, whether the phone is hand carried, pocket carried or pocketbook carried will affect the motion and number of steps recorded. An Apple Watch would have more accurate data because of the additional GPS and heart rate sensor - PLUS the fact that the watch is in one stable location on the person whose steps it is tracking.
In short, JOK’s iPhone’s Health data is of interest but is not proof that he walked a particular distance.

 

[ShadyLady]

Nike Swoosh (Apparently, CA wears football cleats matching this, but not sure what that even means - kicked in the head? In addition to the cracked skull? IDK

Wow OMG.....good catch. Yes, very well could be. The scratches above the cut seem odd, too.

 

[missy1974]

Was there an autopsy photo? In response to Morag I did look up tactical brass knuckles and they come in many shapes with a variety of ‘knuckle’ edges that would produce a variety of injury shapes.

There is some out there... you can google, I don't think I am allowed to post. When Dr. L was testifying, I was looking at the photo online and I can see what she was talking about ... scratches above and below the laceration.

ETA: oops, I see someone posted it.

 

[missy1974]

Quoting your post because it is simply a great post! This is also how I feel and have felt for some time.

We should all be terrified that a system can be so corrupt to over-charge a woman especially when the investigation was so incomplete, so shoddy (no chain of custody, red solo cups, grocery sack from neighbor, etc…), and completely bias from the first hour!

And the only reason we are at the end of a 2nd trial is because she had the money to do it. Most people would have given up and taken a plea deal. JMO

 

[Spectrix]

Maybe the truth of the whole horrid event will leak out one day. I'm not holding my breath, but one can pray. Mo

I think it's tragic that the state of MA are prepared to pay millions of dollars in an attempt to prosecute an innocent woman instead of trying to find out what actually happened to JOK.

 

[Vaderman]

Nike Swoosh (Apparently, CA wears football cleats matching this, but not sure what that even means - kicked in the head? In addition to the cracked skull? IDK

I immediately thought it was the Nike logo, too.

First I've seen those photos. It looks more like someone pummeled him than it does being struck by a vehicle.

 

[HarmonyE.]

Maybe the truth of the whole horrid event will leak out one day. I'm not holding my breath, but one can pray. Mo

I'm not 100% sure, but the only official I've heard actually confirm that the FBI has closed their investigation was Canton police chief Helena Rafferty. Who promptly announced her retirment shortly thereafter after only 2 years on the job and while only in her mid 50's.

When the CW is unable to convict Read of anything more than a stand-alone DUI charge, we're left with a murdered Boston cop found dead on another Boston cop's lawn and no actual investigation into his murder thanks to the State police.

I thought the Birchmore case would never be solved thanks again to the Canton and State police refusing to investigate a local cop. Who was on video entering her apartment minutes before she went silent forever. But the Feds did get him years later. So I'm not convinced the FBI isn't still lurking in the background here.

 

[missy1974]

Agree -
and speaking of data, the Health (NOT Healthcare Hank!) App on an iPhone is not always reliable when it comes to recording walking steps (or stair climbing). iPhones use a motion coprocessor, accelerometer and gyroscope sensors to detect movement. In essence, the app is measuring the jiggling movement of the phone. Two people walking side by side on the same path can have a significantly different number of steps recorded. Source - myself and other walkers both in AZ and IL over the last decade. Furthermore, whether the phone is hand carried, pocket carried or pocketbook carried will affect the motion and number of steps recorded. An Apple Watch would have more accurate data because of the additional GPS and heart rate sensor - PLUS the fact that the watch is in one stable location on the person whose steps it is tracking.
In short, JOK’s iPhone’s Health data is of interest but is not proof that he walked a particular distance.

This is the experience I have with Samsung, and my husband has with his watch/phone. But I am not familiar with iphone and how sensitive it is (holding it while working vs in a pocket for example) This is what I mean when we look at the make up of the jury.... if they are younger..... I think they may have more experience with it then some of us.

I hope after the verdict some of them will speak out and let us know how much weight they put on what evidence.

 

[jepop]

Was it proven that Karen did a reverse manoeuvre at 34 Fairview? Some are stating that as a fact but I wasn't convinced it happened like that. It seemed as though she did one 3-pt turn when she took a wrong turn on her way there.

Not sure about the 3 pointer, I believe that happened on Cedar crest ( event 1162-1) after KR first missed the turn into Fairview, so c12.23x secs. BUT moo what is not proven, by any means, is that if there was a reverse event (1162-2), it happened infront of 34 Fairview.

Burgess and Welcher, using the VHR (?) data, cannot prove location for the Lexus, they can only suggest times.
Pre Burgess time drift alterations, where was the Lexus at 12.31xseconds? According to the data as testified to by Burgess, the Lexus could have been anywhere within a 0.9 mile radius of 1162-1 when the trigger event indicating a reverse occurred. IMO

So what makes more sense,?? First up, we already know from injuries vs tail light, this collision scenario is completely unrealistic, it's really not possible. So it bugs the bayjaysus out of me to even feel obliged to advance an IMO more probable location theory for the lexus, when Brennan offered the sum total of zero evidence that a collision physically took place ( zero medical evidence and a flawed 'accident reconstruction' theory that has those shards doing physically impossible things to JO's right arm). Jmo

I credit another poster (cannot recall name,) for bringing this to my attention. They used the map to show that at 12.31xsecs it makes more sense for a reverse to happen on the way back to Meadows; more precisely a wrong turn off Chapman, a reverse back and then on KR goes to Meadows, connecting with the wifi at 12.36xsecs. so, KR leaves no.34 at or just before 12.30am. This makes her travel time to Meadows from 34 F closer to six minutes, realistic as I understand it for road conditions at the time. Jmo

The CW,'s theory, even before time-drift by Burgess, is dodgy travel time wise, with KR having to speed back to meadows in under five mins to connect to meadows wifi at 12.36xsecs.

And as I understand it, with Burgesses' time drift theory and the cw wanting to make 1162-2 happen at 12.32x secs, well how in heck did KR get back to Meadows in four minutes??? Under Burgess' new data interpretation to fit with Whiffen, it still makes far more sense that the reverse happened as posited above, ie on the trip back to Meadows to make the 12.36 wifi connection more realistic.Jmo.

* Aside. Imo Matt di Sorgha's testimony sewed doubt into Burgesses data re the number of possible x second time ranges within which the reversing event could have taken place. Even with the time drift Burgess was trying to sell, most of the equally probable x sec time ranges occurred prior to JO's last phone use and steps, ie before 12.31.38

Jmo, Burgess, Welcher and Whiffen combined have not gone anywhere near proving BARD that KR is guilty of any of the charges. All three involve the Lexus being instrumental in JO's death and the ' data' as some sort of stand alone circumstantial evidence from which to draw inference is nowhere close, either before or after considering the scientific, physical and medical evidence to the contrary. Jmo

 

[missy1974]

Wow OMG.....good catch. Yes, very well could be. The scratches above the cut seem odd, too.

If you look at the photo and go to Dr. Laposata's testimony about it, it makes sense. IMO

Now think of a concrete step. It has a ridge that could cause the laceration, but granular to cause the scratches above and below the actual laceration. Head comes in contact with the step.. causes small scratches, then the big blow that causes the laceration/coup contrecoup injury, but the head is still going downwards so it causes more scratches.

Between the 'he wasn't hit by a car' and this testimony... I don't think she hit him and I don't think he hit his head on the grass.

FYI.. the curb was rounded in front of Fairview, it was not squared with a ridge.

All JMO

 

[ShadyLady]

If you look at the photo and go to Dr. Laposata's testimony about it, it makes sense. IMO

Now think of a concrete step. It has a ridge that could cause the laceration, but granular to cause the scratches above and below the actual laceration. Head comes in contact with the step.. causes small scratches, then the big blow that causes the laceration/coup contrecoup injury, but the head is still going downwards so it causes more scratches.

Between the 'he wasn't hit by a car' and this testimony... I don't think she hit him and I don't think he hit his head on the grass.

FYI.. the curb was rounded in front of Fairview, it was not squared with a ridge.

All JMO

Still seems like the blow would have to be greater. More force than just falling backwards. I flew off of the back of a motorcycle and only ended up with a big knot. If I had hit a sharp object, maybe it would have broken the skin.

But, the cut by his eye did come from the front....