VERDICT WATCH MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #36 Retrial

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  • #241
Karen’s defense team believed the incorrect verdict slip got filed.

eta: I was wrong. It’s ‘something’. But they don’t say what it was. I assumed it was the verdict slip they wanted to amend last week, and we may find out that that is it.
 
  • #242
  • #243
Respectfully, the absence of any bodily fluids or other organic material anywhere on the Lexus makes it pretty clear cut that the car did not hit any living being, especially JOK. Very little blood in the snow where he was found, but head wounds bleed heavily.
One stubborn hair, and a little touch DNA, prove nothing.
BARD.
IMO.
Can you provide a link for the DNA on the taillight being touch DNA please.

Maureen Hartnett described her swabbing as collection of any biological evidence.

A. I took a polyester swab, I moistened it with sterile water, and then I applied that swab to the external front areas of the taillight.

Q. Why did you do that?

A. My goal was to collect any potential biological material that was present on the exterior of the taillight.

5.26.28
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  • #244
One of the most glaring things I saw in this case in regard to the tail light is that there was so salt or grime inside the housing of the tail light. If the tail light was broken at 12:30 am or so, it inside housing would have been exposed to the harsh winter elements. She would have driven back to 1 Meadows, all around town, all the way to her parents and then it was towed back to Canton. Where is the salt and dirt from the highways? If you look at the photos, the inside is clean as a whistle. Hmmm...how would that happen? JMO
1750079245650.webp
 
  • #245
PROCTOR PLANT, PROCTOR PLANT, PROCTOR PLANT! moo
Defence produced not a scintilla of evidence of anyone either obtaining or planting evidence.

Most defendants come up with ridiculous theories to explain away their involvement in crimes. Juries aren't allowed to speculate. A whispering defence attorney isn't evidence.

Taillight plastic was found at the scene of the accident while Proctor was at the sallyport.

MOO
 
  • #246
IMO a reasonable jury would vote NG on all charges. The reverse BAC extraction does not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Karen had a BAC above the legal limit.

However, I think there was a desire from the jury to ‘split the baby’ in the first trial, and that it contributed to the mistrial. I believe Karen and her defense team are possibly anticipating a G verdict on OUI.
 
  • #247
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  • #248
Can you provide a link for the DNA on the taillight being touch DNA please.

Maureen Hartnett described her swabbing as collection of any biological evidence.

A. I took a polyester swab, I moistened it with sterile water, and then I applied that swab to the external front areas of the taillight.

Q. Why did you do that?

A. My goal was to collect any potential biological material that was present on the exterior of the taillight.

5.26.28
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Touch/transfer DNA, whichever, but it was NOT blood or tissue.
What would you call it?

IMO.
 
  • #249
Touch/transfer DNA, whichever, but it was NOT blood or tissue.
What would you call it?

IMO.
Where does it state not blood or tissue please.
 
  • #250
Defence produced not a scintilla of evidence of anyone either obtaining or planting evidence.

Most defendants come up with ridiculous theories to explain away their involvement in crimes. Juries aren't allowed to speculate. A whispering defence attorney isn't evidence.

Taillight plastic was found at the scene of the accident while Proctor was at the sallyport.

MOO
BBM.
Defense does not bear the burden of proof, that would be the Prosecution's job.
IMO.
 
  • #251
Is it just a coincidence that as John locks his phone for the last time (12.32.09), while he is taking his first steps at Fairview outside the Lexus, Karen's Lexus records that she has driven forwards at least 34 feet, must be more because she's already going at 13 mph at the start of the trigger data, she slams her car into reverse, with her wheels spinning, and backs up at 23 mph, 74% throttle, zero brake application?

And his last steps ever recorded are 4 seconds after the end of that 10-second trigger data, while she is still in reverse motion with no brake application?

And Karen says that she found him next morning roughly where she left him and she last saw him? (clip 17, trial day 10)

And there is a debris field in the road, a broken taillight with his DNA on it, a broken drinking glass, drinking straw, shoe against the kerb, his hat is frozen to the ground under the snow, and his phone only gets colder, and is never uncovered again until he is moved off it the next morning?

And that Karen starts ringing him every 30 seconds, only one minute later? Not before? Just as John's phone is covered and has stopped moving?

Trooper Guarino's testimony (trial day 10) -

Unanswered calls to John's phone from KR before she gets back to Meadows:

12.33.35
12.34.09
12.34.38
12.35.09
12.35.35
12.36.09

And 20 minutes later Karen leaves him a voicemail saying nobody knows where he is? That can only mean she knew he hadn't gone to the house.

MOO and testimony

Welcher testimony for Lexus key cycle 1162

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day 10 testimony
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I am on the NG side, but I wanted to thank you for putting your perspective in such a succinct and thorough post. So often I have seen posts from people in the G camp that make it difficult to take seriously because their posts come across as simply obstinate and emotion-based. While I don't agree with your perspective, it is refreshing to see a post that gives me a solid basis for seeing your point of view and makes me understand how some on the jury might see things as well. Thank you!
 
  • #252
Defence produced not a scintilla of evidence of anyone either obtaining or planting evidence.

Most defendants come up with ridiculous theories to explain away their involvement in crimes. Juries aren't allowed to speculate. A whispering defence attorney isn't evidence.

Taillight plastic was found at the scene of the accident while Proctor was at the sallyport.

MOO
Respectfully, you’re flipping the burden of proof here. The defense has ZERO obligation to “prove” anything, the CW has to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. That’s the standard, whether you like the defense theories or not. If a defendant is legally presumed innocent, then casting doubt on the prosecution’s version of events is EXACTLY what a defense is supposed to do. You don’t have to like it, but if they raise reasonable doubt, they’re doing their job.

All MOO
 
  • #253
IMO a reasonable jury would vote NG on all charges. The reverse BAC extraction does not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Karen had a BAC above the legal limit.

However, I think there was a desire from the jury to ‘split the baby’ in the first trial, and that it contributed to the mistrial. I believe Karen and her defense team are possibly anticipating a G verdict on OUI.
They did time adjustments on the text ,the truck . whereever they could
if the data said it happen at certain time here the cw come to try and fix time. I would not be believing any of that bs, if I was on the Jury,
 
  • #254
For me, it all comes down to the hardest of the hard facts. There is a dead body in the snow. It belongs to John O'Keefe, who exited Karen Read's car just a few feet away. After exiting the car, KR does a reverse turn at about 24 mph and, probably accidentally, hits JOK. The evidence? JOK's dead body is in the snow. There is no hard evidence JOK ever went into the house. There is no hard evidence that someone in the house murdered JOK. As far as I know, there are no drag marks or footprints in the snow indicating the placement of a body there. All the other testimony, such as about broken tail lights and such, is distracting from the hard facts. Those for and against "guilty or not guilty" can cherry-pick testimony that "proves" their point. I don't know why JOK had cuts on his arm. I don't know why the residents of the house didn't wake up when all the activity was going on later. I don't know where and how the tail light was broken. It doesn't change the fact that JOK's body is lying a few feet away from where KR dropped him off.

I believe that there was no conspiracy among the folks in the house. I probably wouldn't like those people if I knew them. I abhor their drinking culture. I know that culture very well having lived in similar communities. Unfortunately, JOK was part of that culture. I don't think I would have liked him either. He should have known better than to let a very drunk KR drive. If one of the "McAlbert" crowd did kill JOK, there is no way all the others in the house conspired to blame it on KR. They couldn't keep that secret because they are such heavy drinkers it would come out eventually. Alcohol is like a truth serum. They believe KR hit JOK because he is dead on the lawn and they know that no one in the house did it. Therefore, they cooperated in getting the actual facts straight because they wanted justice for JOK. Cooperating on getting the actual facts straight is not a conspiracy to cover up a murder.

KR will probably get acquitted or maybe there will be mistrial. There were too many paid experts on both sides, which created a lot of noise and distracted from the hardest of the hard facts: that JOK's dead body is on the lawn after exiting KR's car just a few feet away from where a very drunk and angry KR then reversed the car, probably accidentally hit him, and drove away in a huff. But she couldn't escape the thought during moments of lucidity that she may have hit him, and that dictated her actions through the wee hours to come. If she is acquitted, I hope his loved ones find some solace in that she has spent the last three years in a punishing purgatory.

IMO.
I'm really confused as I thought the 3 point turn was not on Fairview but on Cedarcrest prior to arrival at 34 Fairview and ONLY used to track time and event. Am I wrong?
 
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  • #255
Where does it state not blood or tissue please.
If it were blood/tissue, the CW would have shouted it from the rooftops.
Where does it state that it WAS blood or tissue?
IMO.
 
  • #256
Is it just a coincidence that as John locks his phone for the last time (12.32.09), while he is taking his first steps at Fairview outside the Lexus, Karen's Lexus records that she has driven forwards at least 34 feet, must be more because she's already going at 13 mph at the start of the trigger data, she slams her car into reverse, with her wheels spinning, and backs up at 23 mph, 74% throttle, zero brake application?

And his last steps ever recorded are 4 seconds after the end of that 10-second trigger data, while she is still in reverse motion with no brake application?

And Karen says that she found him next morning roughly where she left him and she last saw him? (clip 17, trial day 10)

And there is a debris field in the road, a broken taillight with his DNA on it, a broken drinking glass, drinking straw, shoe against the kerb, his hat is frozen to the ground under the snow, and his phone only gets colder, and is never uncovered again until he is moved off it the next morning?

And that Karen starts ringing him every 30 seconds, only one minute later? Not before? Just as John's phone is covered and has stopped moving?

Trooper Guarino's testimony (trial day 10) -

Unanswered calls to John's phone from KR before she gets back to Meadows:

12.33.35
12.34.09
12.34.38
12.35.09
12.35.35
12.36.09

And 20 minutes later Karen leaves him a voicemail saying nobody knows where he is? That can only mean she knew he hadn't gone to the house.

MOO and testimony

Welcher testimony for Lexus key cycle 1162

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day 10 testimony
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Yes, it’s just a coincidence, because a string of events DNE proof beyond a reasonable doubt. You’re listing a series of correlations, then making a causal leap that the CW itself hasn’t definitively bridged with direct evidence. Coincidence DNE conviction, and inference stacking is not a substitute for proof. Let’s be 100% honest, if their timeline were airtight, the CW wouldn’t have dropped the consciousness of guilt instruction. That speaks volumes IMO.

As for the call log, calls coming after she left the scene don’t prove she knew anything definitive. It’s consistent with her realizing something might be wrong and panicking. Guilty people don’t usually call someone every 30 seconds in full view of traceable phone data. And a person who knew they hit someone certainly wouldn’t establish motive by leaving messages of them upset with their partner and accusing him of cheating. Again, the burden isn’t on Karen to disprove a narrative; it’s on the state to prove theirs.

MOO
 
  • #257
BBM.
Defense does not bear the burden of proof, that would be the Prosecution's job.
IMO.
Sorry that's not correct. It's the party alleging the crime that must prove it, or at least try to do so. That's why there is a defence part of the trial, otherwise the case would go to the jury after the commonwealth rests.

It's not sufficient for Joe Bloggs to stand up and say the bogeyman did it. They have to show some evidence, which is why third part culprit was denied pre-trial for one individual.

35.45
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  • #258
Unanswered calls to John's phone from KR before she gets back to Meadows:

12.33.35
12.34.09
12.34.38
12.35.09
12.35.35
12.36.09

I am firmly on the NG side, and are we to believe that JO was just standing behind the car, not answering the phone and KR ran him over? Why would he just be standing there, ignoring the calls. And how could that many people, at the party, coming and going all night, the plow driver all miss seeing him laying on the ground if he was there since roughly 12:30 AM? Everything that AJ said in his closing arguments, the collision caught on camera of KR backing into JO vehicle, her taillight making contact with his vehicle causing his vehicle to shake. I believe there was some testimony too, that the vehicle data could have shown that action of backing up all those feet at that speed while in possession of the police.
 
  • #259
Defence produced not a scintilla of evidence of anyone either obtaining or planting evidence.

Most defendants come up with ridiculous theories to explain away their involvement in crimes. Juries aren't allowed to speculate. A whispering defence attorney isn't evidence.

Taillight plastic was found at the scene of the accident while Proctor was at the sallyport.

MOO
Again, I don't agree. They introduced potential avenues of doubt on cross and direct about how some or all of the tail light pieces got there. And the jury is free to infer from testimony on cross where questions arise. It was the defense who introduced the proctor pieces,( how come Brennan avoided it?), it was the defense who had a witness testify to no diffusers yet the tail light is still lit at 5.07am? Doubt, doubt and more doubt. It's all about introducing doubt into a million different parts of the CW's case. And don't forget Dever. More doubt if the jury infer it.

The defense introduced amazing, credible evidence aplenty where it really matters....

But the burden is the CW's to prove BARD.

Moo
 
  • #260
If it were blood/tissue, the CW would have shouted it from the rooftops.
Where does it state that it WAS blood or tissue?
IMO.
I linked above the testimony from the crime lab scientist saying she wanted to collect all biological material that might be on the light housing. She didn't do a test for presumptive blood on any part of the car except the undercarriage.

Andre Porto who did the DNA testing on the swabs said that there is no difference in DNA results between blood or any other type of DNA.


49.44

Q. Is DNA the same in every cell of a person’s body?

A. Yes, so what that means is if I were to take a blood sample and a saliva sample from the same person, the same DNA profile will be generated.

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