NOT GUILTY MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #38 Retrial

[ch_13]

I wonder how the Okeefes have the money to pay Mark Diller to represent them. Is he taking the case pro Bono and then collect money if he wins? If he doesn't win then he gets nothing? I don't see how he can when this because KR didn't cause JOKs death.

That sort of arrangement is called a contingency fee. It's pretty common in certain kinds of civil suits. Typically, the lawyer gets 1/3 of the award if they win. For the lawyer, it's a high-risk/high-reward situation.

It's not the same thing as pro bono, where the attorney is genuinely working for free.

 

[HarmonyE.]

So if the civil trial moves forward, can the lawyers use the findings in the criminal case or do they have to start from scratch?

It's a new and different case altogether. So the plaintiffs (in this case the O'Keefes) have to build a case from the beginning. Depending upon jurisdictional discovery rules, some information may be available to a potential jury, and they'd likely know she was found not guility of the murder and manslaughter charges (and guilty of the DUI) but not why a criminal jury made that determination.

Instead of a reasonable doubt consideration, a jury is asked to determine whether the preponderance of the evidence supports a claim that the defendants caused or contributed to JO's death as well as whether JO may have contributed to his own injuries. If a jury finds a plaintiff is more than 50% responsible for their own injuries in MA, there would be no award. And here if they find Read didn't strike JO at all, all three defendants would be found not responsible.

This is a much lower bar than reasonable doubt, but the estate still has some big hurdles here, the primary one being money. In a "normal" case, they'd piggyback on the Commonwealth's investigation and experts. They'd have to pay them for testimony of course, but the good thing is you already know what's in their reports and how they'd testify.

So the estate could call the Canton PD cops, Michael Proctor, Yuri B, my personal fave - Trooper Joe Paul, and of course, Aperture. Ruh-roh, Scooby!

The defendants, covered by deep-pocketed insurance companies, would likewise have access to any defense experts they choose to hire. They could use ARCCA, for instance. In the battle of the experts, we know already who has the better ones. But all is not lost for the estate, they can - at a significant cost - hire new experts to try to counteract the defense experts. Here we know that the state with unlimited resources couldn't find anyone but the aforementioned clowns to try to prove Read struck him with her car.

As mentioned by another poster above, plaintiff firms usually charge a flat fee to handle civil injury cases, but many will charge up to 40% of any settlement or judgement once a case hits the discovery phase. This is to cover the usual litigation expenses. Usually this amount wouldn't cover hiring expensive biomechanical experts to prove the act they are claiming even happened. But this is a high profile wrongful death case, so maybe Paul's firm would be willing to foot that bill?

On the flip side, Read will be compelled to give both deposition and trial testimony.

At the end of the day it's the insurance companies who get to decide whether a case is settled or goes to trial. Read and the bars have zero say here. Because defending lawsuits is also very expensive, most carriers will make efforts to resolve cases pre-trial for what they consider reasonable amounts, given all of the variables. My best guess is at some pre-trial mediation a few years down the road the parties will end up resolving this. But for far less than the multi-million dollar settlement Paul O'Keefe likely expected had Read been found guilty of manslaughter.

 

[Anniesflowers]

And let’s not forget the “if she takes a plea it’ll go away, if she doesn’t it’ll become an episode”

And it certainly has been quite the episode

It’s more than an episode, imo, it ran 2 seasons! . Matt McCAbe had no idea what a circus this was to become.
Unbelievable, when you really think of it.
0 evidence presented that JOK was hit by a car.
*All those key cycles and the ‘helpful’ data from the black box was shown to be garbage. Shanon lied about his credentials and CHANGED the timeline in the middle of the trial (per Attorney Brennan’s request).
* Whiffen’s data showed that John’s phone signal coming from inside the house was was as likely as it coming from outside the house.
*Welcher played with paint and charged 400k. His experiment proved NOTHING.
*The ME couldn’t rule this as a homicide AND testified there were no signs of a vehicle strike (low speed or high speed). All MO.
*Dever, with her incredibly unprofessional behavior on the stand was a great witness for the defense. her lack of professionalism, decorum, and respect for the court was abhorrent and made her look like a fool. Who diagnosed her with a false memory. How did she determine it was a false memory? Did she see the Chief AND Higgins do the same thing on another day? I disregarded everything she said in the stand bc I believe she was compromised. She used the term ‘false memory’, so she wouldn’t get charged with lying to the FBI.
The hate that some folks on social media have for Karen is so bizarre to me.
All MOO

 

[ch_13]

At the end of the day it's the insurance companies who get to decide whether a case is settled or goes to trial. Read and the bars have zero say here. Because defending lawsuits is also very expensive, most carriers will make efforts to resolve cases pre-trial for what they consider reasonable amounts, given all of the variables. My best guess is at some pre-trial mediation a few years down the road the parties will end up resolving this. But for far less than the multi-million dollar settlement Paul O'Keefe likely expected had Read been found guilty of manslaughter.

One thing that's fairly unique about this case is that the pre-trial phase will likely be much more expensive for the plaintiff vs. the defense.

At this point, it seems that Karen's defense team is pretty much locked and loaded. Sure they can do additional discovery, but they already have their experts lined up: ARCCA, Dr. Laposata, Dr. Russell, and likely other witnesses like Michael Easter that the judge wouldn't allow in the criminal case. They probably don't even have to pay them anything until they need them.

In the meantime, the defense has the luxury of sitting back and watching the plaintiff spend money hiring new experts and paying for a new round of testing. If Aperture charged the CW $400K how much will new experts cost? (I assume they won't want to go with Aperture again.) Maybe they'll be able to find a new doctor who will attest that JO was hit by the car and that the arm wounds weren't from a dog. But how will that doctor compare to Laposata / Russell? In the end, they'll have to shell out a lot of money just to get to a somewhat even footing with the defense.

 

[shotgun09]

Decisions decisions for Paul O'Keefe, IMO. Do you run with the tired same ol story, knowing full well it wasn't bought by a jury AT ALL ( or two juries)? Knowing also, that the defense can call all kinds of witnesses, with multitudes of discovery in question and laid out on the table for all to see ( Looking at you, Paul, as well as all of the McCabes and Alberts. And Higgins... And gasp !! Even Colin Albert? ) The show must go on, right Paul ?

It all makes me wonder, just how much the McCabes and Alberts ( and Morrissey ) are still manipulating the O'Keefe family.

 

[HarmonyE.]

It all makes me wonder, just how much the McCabes and Alberts ( and Morrissey ) are still manipulating the O'Keefe family.

The O'Keefes are of no value to those folks now. And it's very possible the McCabes, Alberts, and Higgins could be called as witnesses by Paul's attorney. Yikes. More under-oath testimonies!

 

[MerlinFalcon]

If the O’Keefes end up losing their case, will they have to pay the lawyers of the 2 bars and Karen?

 

[HarmonyE.]

If the O’Keefes end up losing their case, will they have to pay the lawyers of the 2 bars and Karen?

No. Unlike a few jurisdictions in the US, MA has no laws that require a plaintiff to reimburse defendants if they lose.

 

[Seattle1]

So if the civil trial moves forward, can the lawyers use the findings in the criminal case or do they have to start from scratch?

We were just discussing this in the Idaho murders/BK thread, and a plaintiff (the O'Keefe's here), in a civil wrongful death claim, can generally use discovery from the defendant's criminal case, provided that the information obtained is relevant and admissible in the civil court. However, the plaintiff cannot simply use civil discovery rules to obtain information that would be unavailable under criminal rules.

MOO

 

[TIGER0822]

The McAlberts must be sh*tting themselves!

Sadly looks like Turtleboy will be facing possible jailtime.

 

[TDoc72]

*Dever, with her incredibly unprofessional behavior on the stand was a great witness for the defense. her lack of professionalism, decorum, and respect for the court was abhorrent and made her look like a fool. Who diagnosed her with a false memory. How did she determine it was a false memory? Did she see the Chief AND Higgins do the same thing on another day? I disregarded everything she said in the stand bc I believe she was compromised. She used the term ‘false memory’, so she wouldn’t get charged with lying to the FBI.
The hate that some folks on social media have for Karen is so bizarre to me.
All MOO

Her saying she must have seen them on a different day would’ve made much more sense. The whole false memory thing just sounds so fake and weird. Like, she talked to the FBI and later realized she made the whole thing up? She really damaged her rep IMO.

 

[Luna20]

If the only acceptable outcome is one you agree with, then of course you’re going to feel like the system failed. But IMO, that says more about your emotional investment than it does about the jury. Twelve people took an oath, listened to every single piece of evidence, and were bound by the law - not public sentiment, not social media theories, and certainly not hindsight bias. Claiming they were biased simply because they didn’t reach your preferred verdict is just sour grapes, IMO.

Twice.

 

[Luna20]

It’s more than an episode, imo, it ran 2 seasons! . Matt McCAbe had no idea what a circus this was to become.
Unbelievable, when you really think of it.
0 evidence presented that JOK was hit by a car.
*All those key cycles and the ‘helpful’ data from the black box was shown to be garbage. Shanon lied about his credentials and CHANGED the timeline in the middle of the trial (per Attorney Brennan’s request).
* Whiffen’s data showed that John’s phone signal coming from inside the house was was as likely as it coming from outside the house.
*Welcher played with paint and charged 400k. His experiment proved NOTHING.
*The ME couldn’t rule this as a homicide AND testified there were no signs of a vehicle strike (low speed or high speed). All MO.
*Dever, with her incredibly unprofessional behavior on the stand was a great witness for the defense. her lack of professionalism, decorum, and respect for the court was abhorrent and made her look like a fool. Who diagnosed her with a false memory. How did she determine it was a false memory? Did she see the Chief AND Higgins do the same thing on another day? I disregarded everything she said in the stand bc I believe she was compromised. She used the term ‘false memory’, so she wouldn’t get charged with lying to the FBI.
The hate that some folks on social media have for Karen is so bizarre to me.
All MOO

“Who diagnosed it” is hilarious! “False Memory” does it belong in the mental illness category or is it a vitamin deficiency?! Imagine calling in sick because you have a false memory, or not calling in because you have a false memory. Scientists may have to formulate a vaccine for it. The Dever Vac.

She has anger issues and I wouldn’t want to be around her. She did what she arrest people for doing. Sarcastic, arrogant and condescending behavior while being stopped by a police will sometimes get you thrown in jail.

 

[Sor Juana]

Howie Carr: After second Karen Read trial, everyone sees the cop corruption in Massachusetts

Notice the recurring themes, post-Karen Read: Driving drunk, planting evidence, losing evidence, frame-ups. Now the MSP has posted safety reminders – tips, but not in the sense of Michael Proctor soliciting a “gift” from the McAlberts after he lugged Karen Read with no evidence and even less investigation.

 

[MerlinFalcon]

AJ saying there is more to come makes me happy!

I’m so glad he lives on the other side of the US and can say whatever he wants about Bev, Morrisey, Brennan, Lally and McLaughlin. Yanetti and Alessi had to hold back so much because of their proximity to Bev and Brennan but AJ just let loose!

 

[Forest_Wood]

AJ saying there is more to come makes me happy!

I’m so glad he lives on the other side of the US and can say whatever he wants about Bev, Morrisey, Brennan, Lally and McLaughlin. Yanetti and Alessi had to hold back so much because of their proximity to Bev and Brennan but AJ just let loose!

What a terrific interview that was! AJ said he will always be Karen’s lawyer. It sounded like they have other things in the works for justice. AJ is amazing! MOO

 

[missy1974]

What a terrific interview that was! AJ said he will always be Karen’s lawyer. It sounded like they have other things in the works for justice. AJ is amazing! MOO

Great interview!

A few things from the interview for those that won't listen to it

the SERT team search and finding the first tail light pieces... AJ believes Proctor WAS one of the 3 guys (1 CPD 2 MSP officers) that showed up and then the pieces were found.

Not calling Proctor and Higgins... he understood that it would have been great "entertainment", but didn't make sense for the defense to call him.

He did not regret letting Karen do any interviews, earlier in his interview, he did say that everything he or she said, was calculated, and he was okay with the clips being played as long as they were with context. They could have played more clips but didn't think they needed to in the end.

12:31:38am - the techstream data.. he decided he didn't care much about it and if the CW was going to go with that time, he went with it because it was an issue because it was an incapacitating injury, so make them go with that. He says, John's phone was active after 12:31:38, because he opens his phone, and moves according to the data.. BUT.. he believes it was someone else using his phone, not him.

Garage and/or Albert's basement - he believes it could be either place because of the temp of the phone. Colder but not freezing temps. Some of their experts lean towards parts of the garage.

For anyone wanting to listen, it's easy to find!

 

[TIGER0822]

If interested - a petition requesting the Judges handling of the KR case be invesitgated

Demand Transparency: Investigate Judge Beverly Cannone’s Bias in the Karen Read Case

Justice cannot be served behind closed doors, nor can it be trusted when bias is left unchecked. Please sign and share this petition to hold our judiciary accountable and ensure the Karen Read case is tried fairly — as our Constitution demands.

sign.moveon.org

 

[TIGER0822]

“Who diagnosed it” is hilarious! “False Memory” does it belong in the mental illness category or is it a vitamin deficiency?! Imagine calling in sick because you have a false memory, or not calling in because you have a false memory. Scientists may have to formulate a vaccine for it. The Dever Vac.

She has anger issues and I wouldn’t want to be around her. She did what she arrest people for doing. Sarcastic, arrogant and condescending behavior while being stopped by a police will sometimes get you thrown in jail.

I have a false memory of calling in sick yesterday. So I must have called in.

 

[Traymar]

If interested - a petition requesting the Judges handling of the KR case be invesitgated

Demand Transparency: Investigate Judge Beverly Cannone’s Bias in the Karen Read Case

Justice cannot be served behind closed doors, nor can it be trusted when bias is left unchecked. Please sign and share this petition to hold our judiciary accountable and ensure the Karen Read case is tried fairly — as our Constitution demands.

sign.moveon.org

I signed this one and several other unrelated petitions - thanks for the heads up!