NOT GUILTY MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #38 Retrial

[MerlinFalcon]

That Microdots video was jarring. We’ve all seen the photo by now but showing us exactly where it was in the garage really hit home.

 

[Soulmagent]

Well, when you hang all your red flags out like dirty laundry, you shouldn't be surprised when people call you on it when you claim they're not red.

If they didn't want to get called out, they could have just kept their opinions to themselves. How is this helping their members who might feel their jobs are in jeopardy? It doesn't. All it's doing is drawing attention to inadequacies and irregularities that this case has highlighted that are part of a broad, systematic pattern within the police in the area.

I know some people say all publicity is good, but surely not in this circumstance.

MOO

Its crazy . Really.
Your better at putting visuals with your words than I am.
I get all locked in my head .
Like they are socially blind or something. The lot of them IMO.

 

[Soulmagent]

If a minor was involved and that minor was given alcohol (or drugs) by adults in the home, there would be dire consequences for everyone involved. As first responders, it would be immediately clear that JOK was dead/dying and there was no hope. They had to choose whether to let everyone go down with the ship or pin it on the horrible woman who wanted to cheat on him who should have just copped a plea and been done with the whole thing. Besides, all of this really was her fault anyway, right?

ETA - this was NEVER about protecting Chloe. It was NEVER about protecting their home from a lawsuit. It was ALWAYS to protect their involvement in the actions that left JOK dead. I have zero doubt there was a LOT of underage drinking in that home and likely copious amounts of drugs. They were screwed. Out of their jobs, likely in prison, likely sued for everything they had, and their entire families ruined beyond repair. All for a simple argument that got out of hand. They were NOT going down for that.

Nah , as a parent you legally can provide your minor with religious wines etc..In VA but its a common wealth thing I think.
I dont think they thought he would die.
I think they tossed him out because they thought he was being sloppy.
I also fully believe that math has the answers.
Amoo..

 

[Knitpicker]

I think the better question is.. why didn't they go straight there instead of detouring and wasting time?

Kerri didn't know the Alberts, she didn't know where they lived. I think Karen called Jen because she had no idea how to get back there, and possibly didn't even know the address. John had the address on his phone, he got the directions, she just drove there.

Jen called her sister at 5:07am, but they didn't get to her place until shortly after 6am, because Jen insisted on going back to 1 Meadows first... why? Karen had already said he didn't come home and needed help.

All JMO

So you don’t believe her when she told Jen her taillight was cracked?
I have my own opinion. I believe she hit him and one of them left and saw JOK on the front lawn (Probably Jen) and the house had no idea what happened to him, so of course its the Alberts house, so they had to talk about what they think happened.

When did Jen call her sister?

 

[Soulmagent]

So you don’t believe her when she told Jen her taillight was cracked?
I have my own opinion. I believe she hit him and one of them left and saw JOK on the front lawn (Probably Jen) and the house had no idea what happened to him, so of course its the Alberts house, so they had to talk about what they think happened.

When did Jen call her sister?

I dont think she did.
It was a butt dial
Then her sisters butt called back.

 

[Mmcgirl13]

Not snarky. Just firm in the knowledge there was no collision and there was evidence planted. The taillight is the tell-tale. Go out to your car. Use your body to destroy your taillight. You WILL have evidence on you body if you mange to break your taillight, completely breaking out the diffusers and leaving it in 47 pieces scattered about. The physical evidence the CW tried to use to convict was impossible. Don’t need a PhD to see it.

And for the car to have hit his arm with enough force to have shattered the taillight, and NOT break his arm? I'd find it hard to believe you could hit someone's arm with enough force to shatter a car taillight even if the arm HAD been broken, let alone with the injuries we saw on John.

 

[Forest_Wood]

Thinking back to the verdict being read for all 3 charges, the courtroom sure was quiet when the verdicts were announced. No sound at all from the O'Keefe side, no gasping or anything. And then they were gone just like that. I expected some sort of relief of tension or a gasp. But nothing.

 

[ch_13]

There is no excuse for a police officer to act like a petulant teenager on the witness stand.

I'm still catching up on T2 testimony. I watched Kelly Dever yesterday. I know a lot has been said about her, but a few comments:

1. It was mentioned that in at least one of her meetings she was accompanied by a BPD attorney. It would explain why she never met with the prosecution. She only met with the BPD lawyer and was coached by them to testify the way the CW wanted.
2. From her words I believe she was heavily coached to testify the way she did. She kept repeating certain words and phrases over and over again: "no malicious intent," "the defense's timeline". Plus, I don't believe she would be familiar with the psychological concept of "false memories." That idea was put into her head.
3. I think the piss-poor attitude on the stand stems from a sort of transference. She's really upset at her higher-ups, but knows she has to toe the line, so she gets angry at the defense instead for putting her in this position. Like a person who can't yell at their boss, so they take it out on their family instead.
4. The involvement of the BPD commissioner shows how deeply invested the entire LEO establishment had become in this trial. Not just in Suffolk Country, but throughout the metro area. JO may have been a Boston cop, but his death was in a different jurisdiction and Devers was not employed by the BPD when she saw what she saw. Why did Cox feel the need to insert himself in this case? It's extremely telling of how desperate they were to see KR convicted.

The irony is if the CW hadn't pushed her so hard to give them what they wanted, it probably would have ended up better for them. She could have testified like Officer Barros did for the defense. She would have just repeated what she told the FBI. Then the CW could have crossed her, shown her whatever records they had that showed the time she clocked out. She would have just shrugged and said, "I can't reconcile my memory with the hours I worked. It's possible I saw them together on another night and am misremembering but I don't know."

Her whole testimony would have been a nothing-burger. Instead her insistence on this "false memory" stuff makes her sounds like a liar who was forced to recant under pressure from her superiors.

 

[Soulmagent]

I'm still catching up on T2 testimony. I watched Kelly Dever yesterday. I know a lot has been said about her, but a few comments:

1. It was mentioned that in at least one of her meetings she was accompanied by a BPD attorney. It would explain why she never met with the prosecution. She only met with the BPD lawyer and was coached by them to testify the way the CW wanted.
2. From her words I believe she was heavily coached to testify the way she did. She kept repeating certain words and phrases over and over again: "no malicious intent," "the defense's timeline". Plus, I don't believe she would be familiar with the psychological concept of "false memories." That idea was put into her head.
3. I think the piss-poor attitude on the stand stems from a sort of transference. She's really upset at her higher-ups, but knows she has to toe the line, so she gets angry at the defense instead for putting her in this position. Like a person who can't yell at their boss, so they take it out on their family instead.
4. The involvement of the BPD commissioner shows how deeply invested the entire LEO establishment had become in this trial. Not just in Suffolk Country, but throughout the metro area. JO may have been a Boston cop, but his death was in a different jurisdiction and Devers was not employed by the BPD when she saw what she saw. Why did he feel the need to insert himself in this case? It's extremely telling of how desperate they were to see KR convicted.

The irony is if the CW hadn't pushed her so hard to give them what they wanted, it probably would have ended up better for them. She could have testified like Officer Barros did for the defense. She would have just repeated what she told the FBI. Then the CW could have crossed her, shown her whatever records they had that showed the time she clocked out. She would have just shrugged and said, "I can't reconcile my memory with the hours I worked. It's possible I saw them together on another night and am misremembering but I don't know."

Her whole testimony would have been a nothing-burger. Instead her insistence on this "false memory" stuff makes her sounds like a liar who was forced to recant under pressure from her superiors.

On the other side of the defense table..
Some things are hard to connect..but
The CPD was open 24 hours ,off duty on duty . So her clock out shows something different but we know often they did not even bother. So you really do not know who was where when.
IMO

 

[Dawookie]

If anyone would know that an investigating authority does not have to tell subjects they are being investigated, or better yet, can even lie about it, it would be LE and prosecutors. They know that because they use that as a tactic themselves all the time. You can’t take anything they say about this seriously. Their phones can be tapped for all they know. That’s why I encourage them TO KEEP TALKING!

I don't take it seriously. Just found it odd that HB would say it was over like it was a big nothing burger. As long as they keep talking like they are eventually someone will slip up and we may actually find out what really happened

 

[ch_13]

On the other side of the defense table..
Some things are hard to connect..but
The CPD was open 24 hours ,off duty on duty . So her clock ut shows something different but we know often they did not even bother. So you really do not know who was where when.
IMO

Probably true. But I'm sure they have a document somewhere that says Kelly Dever clocked out before the SUV arrived. When and how it was generated, I don't know. But they needed something to show Dever (as well as the defense team) to back up their claim that she couldn't have been there.

My point was just that they shouldn't have had her get so angry and spout off all the psych 101 mumbo-jumbo on the stand. If she had testified like Barros did, Hank could have done a normal cross and mitigated any damage.

 

[Florida_marlin]

I don't take it seriously. Just found it odd that HB would say it was over like it was a big nothing burger. As long as they keep talking like they are eventually someone will slip up and we may actually find out what really happened

Yea, I just think it’s funny that the LE and Prosecutor folks want to make a point the fbi says case closed when they of all people should know better.

 

[Forest_Wood]

I'm still catching up on T2 testimony. I watched Kelly Dever yesterday. I know a lot has been said about her, but a few comments:

1. It was mentioned that in at least one of her meetings she was accompanied by a BPD attorney. It would explain why she never met with the prosecution. She only met with the BPD lawyer and was coached by them to testify the way the CW wanted.
2. From her words I believe she was heavily coached to testify the way she did. She kept repeating certain words and phrases over and over again: "no malicious intent," "the defense's timeline". Plus, I don't believe she would be familiar with the psychological concept of "false memories." That idea was put into her head.
3. I think the piss-poor attitude on the stand stems from a sort of transference. She's really upset at her higher-ups, but knows she has to toe the line, so she gets angry at the defense instead for putting her in this position. Like a person who can't yell at their boss, so they take it out on their family instead.
4. The involvement of the BPD commissioner shows how deeply invested the entire LEO establishment had become in this trial. Not just in Suffolk Country, but throughout the metro area. JO may have been a Boston cop, but his death was in a different jurisdiction and Devers was not employed by the BPD when she saw what she saw. Why did Cox feel the need to insert himself in this case? It's extremely telling of how desperate they were to see KR convicted.

The irony is if the CW hadn't pushed her so hard to give them what they wanted, it probably would have ended up better for them. She could have testified like Officer Barros did for the defense. She would have just repeated what she told the FBI. Then the CW could have crossed her, shown her whatever records they had that showed the time she clocked out. She would have just shrugged and said, "I can't reconcile my memory with the hours I worked. It's possible I saw them together on another night and am misremembering but I don't know."

Her whole testimony would have been a nothing-burger. Instead her insistence on this "false memory" stuff makes her sounds like a liar who was forced to recant under pressure from her superiors.

Another phrase she used a lot was "...in good faith". "Because I gave it in good faith..." she repeated over and over. I agree with you she was highly coached.I think her testimony, the way she presented as a whole, would have looked badly for her anyway. She was not a likeable or an honest witness. I don't believe she will go far in her career after this IMO.
MOO

 

[Izzylizzy]

"Janet Jimenez, juror No. 12, knew nothing about the high-profile case in which Read was accused of hitting her Boston cop boyfriend John O’Keefe, 46, with her car and leaving him to die in a snowbank outside a house party in January 2022."

cont:

Karen Read juror reveals she was leaning toward a guilty verdict— and the moment that changed her mind

A juror in the Karen Read trial says she went in leaning toward a guilty verdict but changed her mind once she pored through the evidence, according to a new report.

nypost.com

 

[Forest_Wood]

I'm still working my way through the Alessi/Yannetti interview.

Yannetti shared how his BIL got bitten by a dog on his hand during the trial which they thought had a piece of the tooth stuck in it. So Yannetti asked Dr Russell for her advice. He said that Dr Russell was so kind and attentive, and asked to see pictures, and gave suggestions of how to handle it, and she even followed up 3X after the fact. He found her a remarkable person.
MOO

 

[Luna20]

Another phrase she used a lot was "...in good faith". "Because I gave it in good faith..." she repeated over and over. I agree with you she was highly coached.I think her testimony, the way she presented as a whole, would have looked badly for her anyway. She was not a likeable or an honest witness. I don't believe she will go far in her career after this IMO.
MOO

Agree. I wouldn’t want to be around her and her gun if she can’t control her emotions. She is very immature and combative. I’m sure they told her what to say but she went further with her attitude. A missed opportunity for her to be professional while everyone was watching.

 

[Forest_Wood]

Agree. I wouldn’t want to be around her and her gun if she can’t control her emotions. She is very immature and combative. I’m sure they told her what to say but she went further with her attitude. A missed opportunity for her to be professional while everyone was watching.

Dever is to BPS and CPS what Proctor was to MSP.
An overarching embarrassment.
MOO

 

[Soulmagent]

Probably true. But I'm sure they have a document somewhere that says Kelly Dever clocked out before the SUV arrived. When and how it was generated, I don't know. But they needed something to show Dever (as well as the defense team) to back up their claim that she couldn't have been there.

My point was just that they shouldn't have had her get so angry and spout off all the psych 101 mumbo-jumbo on the stand. If she had testified like Barros did, Hank could have done a normal cross and mitigated any damage.

Yes but they also have Video of an ATF agent using the dept as a rest stop.

 

[Karin1974]

I think most of us would throw on pants and go outside even if it was a stranger found dead on our lawn!

IMO - This was my exact thought, unless of course, I had something to do with it, then I’d pretend I was asleep in bed. MOO

 

[Soulmagent]

IMO - This was my exact thought, unless of course, I had something to do with it, then I’d pretend I was asleep in bed. MOO

I would be the person to go missing while everyone should have been looking for John. Its kinda wild the places I find me at.