MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #5

[MyJoey]

First off, I’ve been a nurse since 1986. I am well aware of heads bleeding like crazy. Don’t we all put ice on a wound to stop bleeding and swelling ? He thankfully had that in his corner. I’ve stated a few times I’m not in on one theory. Trying to think things thru, it seems many here have made up their mind without all the evidence. Disappointing imo.
All I suggested was why not a tailpipe, it’s on the right side of her vehicle ? Or, the quwerky fire hydrant with its appendages sticking out ? I’m not suggesting KRis guilty, suggesting playing devils advocate that’s all.

You know I thought the same thing about the bleeding. Plus it sounds like a lot of internal bleeding. I like playing devils advocate, although sometimes it feels like I’ll get attacked when i do …..which is a bummer, cause we all don’t think a like.

 

[HarmonyE.]

KerR's testimony spoke volumes. Linked article worth the read. KerR is also the only witness... the defense did not cross -- thus far.

It interesting how someone is able to recognize a mound of snow as JOK from inside a vehicle. The body fully covered by 3-4 inches of snow, that was testimony.
During a blizzard?
KerR didn't determine its a body until she got up close. moo



As they approached 34 Fairview Road, “All of a sudden Karen said, ‘There he is! There he is! Let me the F out of this car.’ And she started kicking the door,” Roberts recalled.

She said she didn’t see anything at the time, but she unlocked the door and watched as Read ran over to “a mound of snow.”

“At some point, I realized it was the shape of a body,” she added.

Roberts teared up as Assistant District Attorney Adam Lally played police dashcam footage from the scene. Choking back a sob, she recalled the moment she realized there was a person buried in the snow. When she ran over and cleared snow from the man’s face, she said she recognized O’Keefe, her longtime friend.

“He had blood coming out of his nose and his mouth, and his right eye — it looked like a golf ball,” Roberts said, adding that O’Keefe was also bleeding from a cut on the back of his head.

‘You’re going to get a DUI,’ Kerry Roberts says she warned Karen Read before search

Roberts was one of four witnesses on the stand Wednesday in Read's murder trial.

www.boston.com

The defense is done with Kerry Roberts. They didn't cross for a reason. She didn't say she heard "I hit him!" <modsnip - name changes>, and she said there was just a small hole in Karen's taillight. One small piece missing. No reason to recall her; on balance her testimony helps Read quite a bit.

Watch the police dashcam videos again. The snow was barely on the cars in driveways as they drove to the scene. Not just because of the fact that only a couple of inches had fallen by then but also because the wind was blowing intensely. So we don't need to guess about the conditions; easy to view them on the dashcams.

 

[MyJoey]

Oh to see that sweatshirt. Answers a lot, but only a piece of it, don't know what part really, a square, was sent by Proctor I believe, to a lab, where 'it' came back with no dog dna, but pig DNA. That shirt was on the floor of the ambulance, hospital places like that it sounds.

Of all the players in this, I feel like Proctor is the shady one. I don’t have anything to back that up just from things I’ve read.

 

[HarmonyE.]

You know I thought the same thing about the bleeding. Plus it sounds like a lot of internal bleeding. I like playing devils advocate, although sometimes it feels like I’ll get attacked when i do …..which is a bummer, cause we all don’t think a like.

What internal bleeding? Link? (to save you time, please don't quote the pancreas and stomach conditions. The ME made it clear the redness was caused by hypothermia not physical injury.)

 

[HarmonyE.]

Oh to see that sweatshirt. Answers a lot, but only a piece of it, don't know what part really, a square, was sent by Proctor I believe, to a lab, where 'it' came back with no dog dna, but pig DNA. That shirt was on the floor of the ambulance, hospital places like that it sounds.

Proctor didn't log John's clothes into evidence for a month. I do hope Mike doesn't plead the 5th.

 

[maamager]

It seems like maybe it could be as simple as… EVERYONE was driving drunk that night (a wide range of intoxication with these folk). Any one of these people could have hit JOK.

 

[MyJoey]

What do you think caused them?

I really don’t know, but they don’t look like dog bites to me. It would be really helpful to see JO’s shirt he was wearing but that may never happen.

 

[keek]

Proctor didn't log John's clothes into evidence for a month. I do hope Mike doesn't plead the 5th.

That long. Sickened. I hope not but hope FBI gets him, just takes forever.

 

[HarmonyE.]

It seems like maybe it could be as simple as… EVERYONE was driving drunk with different varying degrees.Any one of these people could have hit JOK.

His injuries don't match up with a pedestrian strike. Not even a little bit. So while they were all quite drunk, and maybe people on the jury will discuss this, I don't think there will be any consideration given to the idea that someone else hit her. The Jeep allegedly parked on the side of the road is a red herring concocted by the McCabes and Higgins to discredit the three independent witness who saw Karen alone in her car at Fairview with no damage to her taillight.

 

[HarmonyE.]

I really don’t know, but they don’t look like dog bites to me. It would be really helpful to see JO’s shirt he was wearing but that may never happen.

We'll see his shirts. I understand they are ripped, but of course they would be. Lots of chain of custody problems though, thanks to Michael Proctor.

 

[Aquarian]

His injuries don't match up with a pedestrian strike. Not even a little bit. So while they were all quite drunk, and maybe people on the jury will discuss this, I don't think there will be any consideration given to the idea that someone else hit her. The Jeep allegedly parked on the side of the road is a red herring concocted by the McCabes and Higgins to discredit the three independent witness who saw Karen alone in her car at Fairview with no damage to her taillight.

How do you know it’s concocted ?

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Proctor didn't log John's clothes into evidence for a month. I do hope Mike doesn't plead the 5th.

From what we have seen in evidence, testimony, and other reports it seems IMO the investigation into Proctor - and involvement with this case - should have been completed fully, and if appropriate then that prosecuted as need be. And that should have been done and completed before the KR case was finalized or presented to a GJ or others for possible charges.

And perhaps there is a need to assess Proctor and others for further involvement in this case and other cases in which they were involved that could impact this one. I hope the FBI is up to their elbows in that investigation IIUC of this investigator. MOO

 

[HarmonyE.]

How do you know it’s concocted ?

Have you watched the trial?

Three independent witnesses who have zero skin in the game say no Jeep was there blocking their view of Karen alone in her car. Why would I believe the McCabes' and Higgins' story over them? They aren't proven liars like those three are and they have no reason to lie.

 

[maamager]

His injuries don't match up with a pedestrian strike. Not even a little bit. So while they were all quite drunk, and maybe people on the jury will discuss this, I don't think there will be any consideration given to the idea that someone else hit her. The Jeep allegedly parked on the side of the road is a red herring concocted by the McCabes and Higgins to discredit the three independent witness who saw Karen alone in her car at Fairview with no damage to her taillight.

Yes I understand and agree the injuries don’t seem to match. Just spitballin here

 

[MyJoey]

What internal bleeding? Link? (to save you time, please don't quote the pancreas and stomach conditions. The ME made it clear the redness was caused by hypothermia not physical injury.)

No source, it was just my take away from reading about the head injury why his eye were were black and blue, I would think cavities in the head would fill….I understood the pancreas and stomach conditions. I do believe the cold weather would slow the bleeding down some, again just my opinion.

 

[turaj]

Her demon was showing is all.

Exactly those facial expressions just fit her personality.

 

[HarmonyE.]

No source, it was just my take away from reading about the head injury why his eye were were black and blue, I would think cavities in the head would fill….I understood the pancreas and stomach conditions. I do believe the cold weather would slow the bleeding down some, again just my opinion.

No one is disputing the head injury with associated skull fractures likely caused the eye swelling. That makes sense. But aside from the arm lacerations and bilateral fist bruising, there were no physical injuries below his neck.

That head injury must have gushed blood immediately. No one seems to be able to account for that blood.

 

[Wishbone]

No source, it was just my take away from reading about the head injury why his eye were were black and blue, I would think cavities in the head would fill….I understood the pancreas and stomach conditions. I do believe the cold weather would slow the bleeding down some, again just my opinion.

He also had a cut above his right eye.

Rice also testified that O’Keefe had a cut on the ridge above his right eye, and swelling and bruising of the surrounding soft tissue.

Karen Read murder trial Day 18: Witnesses focus on O’Keefe’s injuries, Read’s blood alcohol level

A pair of doctors and a former forensic scientist zeroed in on John O’Keefe’s injuries and Karen Read’s blood alcohol level during Day 18 of testimony in the murder trial.

www.bostonherald.com

 

[MyJoey]

No one is disputing the head injury with associated skull fractures likely caused the eye swelling. That makes sense. But aside from the arm lacerations and bilateral fist bruising, there were no physical injuries below his neck.

That head injury must have gushed blood immediately. No one seems to be able to account for that blood.

I found the drops off blood around him interesting, ones they collected in cups. I could only come up with maybe it was dripping off KR when she tried to give him mouth to mouth.
It will be interesting to hear the full autopsy report in court. Just thinking maybe the drops were in the snow after moving him …..

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Had this been an ethical and professional defense team they would’ve advised/urged/pushed KR to go with a manslaughter defense. I don’t know if they did or not obv. They could’ve credibly argued that the couple’s relationship was in trouble and nearing its end, and they were fighting a lot. They had been drinking and fought on the way to the house. KR accidentally hit John, panicked and went home. Then came back. Now…..there are hurdles with this defense to be sure because I think the evidence shows she *intentionally* ran him over. But this defense would’ve been her best shot at not doing 25 to life.

I suspect, however, that she has refused to acknowledge any culpability for John’s death to her lawyers and it was her decision to go on the offensive and blame his friends/victims. This is a win-win for the lawyers because these types of underhanded and disgraceful tactics are sensationalized by CourtTV and the like, who give these defense lawyers breathless coverage. Everyone gets paid by the sensationalism. KR will be in an orange jumpsuit soon enough and will spend the rest of her life in prison, where she belongs no doubt.

JMO

How could they possibly ethically argue that she ran him over, when the FBI's report states she did not? That argument would be neither professional or ethical. It would certainly be ineffective assistance of counsel, however.