MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #7

[Linda7NJ]

One thing that has occurred to me that I haven't seen discussed (probably because it's not all that important). But is there not one small crumb of comfort that we have a rare example of a spousal homicide case where the defendant is not in any way "victim-blaming" the deceased or his/her family?

Usually in these cases, the defendant has to make horrible allegations against the spouse they are accused of murdering, and it's a hugely unedifying experience for everyone involved.

Bit she did kinda attempt to blame him in the Nightline interview.

 

[TTF14]

They’d all have to be lying though- right?
To protect who? Who would risk EVERYTHING to lie?
Every single person in that house would have had to lie
The first responders would have had to lie
The SRT Team would have had to lie

Everyone except Karen Read - please, she refuses to even admit she was drunk


FACT - People drink too much and bad things happen when they get behind the wheel

Every single person would not have had to lie. But to answer "to protect who?".... Simple. An 18-year-old kid with his whole life ahead of him. And his hot-headed uncle with his reputation and pension ahead of him.

My personal opinion is that this snowballed into a bunch of people agreeing to a cover up OR being roped into it because of favors owed or past misdeeds being exposed if they didn't (i.e. extortion). This is just my opinion. These guys weren't new officers. They've been around the block. Many years to rack up some shadiness and things they might not want exposed to the public for fear of public embarrassment or worse - criminal charges.

Just my opinion.

 

[themonk]

Every single person in that house would have had to lie

RSBM

Why did no one at 34 Fairview mention that Colin had been there?

How do you explain that omission?

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

RSBM

Is destroying one's phone/SIM card consciousness of guilt?

Is printing out one text conversation and destroying your phone on a military base instead of turning it over for extraction consciousness of guilt?

 

[bobbymkii]

Bit she did kinda attempt to blame him in the Nightline interview.

It's certainly nowhere near close to the Courtney Clenney case, or the case in England I posted about is posts #172 and #187 where the defendants had to allege that their dead partner was horrendously abusive and they acted in self defense.

 

[waldojabba]

One would think out of ALL THE PARTICIPANTS accused by KAREN’s defense theory that are part of a vast conspiracy- ONE woulda come up with that - considering how many are law enforcement, firefighters, EMT’s, lab technicians, wives of cops …
Wouldn’t even need a lot - just a little tiny dab

Vast conspiracy ? An “immense” number of people ? IMO Nah, not really.

Are you local to the crime? Do you understand the culture or this particular brand of loyalty in this neck of the woods? It starts out small and gets a tiny bit bigger bc these are people who have each others “back”. Or they do as they are told without asking questions. Its not so complicated

And I for one would not think that blood on the tail light would be a sterling idea. How was he hit, consistent with his wounds, that blood would be on the tail light ?
How are you going to reenact that happening?
When they got to the scene he had blood coming out of his nose and mouth. There was a gash on the back of his head that would have bled profusely. Swollen bruised knuckles on his right hand. Eyes swollen.

Hard to hit him in the back of the head with the tail light when he is over 6 ft tall. If he is in a squatting position it seems his head would be lower than the tail light and the car would likely have run him over.
The blood from the scene was in solo cups so there certainly was access. But Karen’s car was not at the scene.
But back at the Canton precinct we see that the blood evidence is right there in the solo cups inside the stop and shop bag on the sally port by Karen’s car.
So that was an opportunity to smear some of that solo cop liquid onto her taillights.
Maybe they tried and it was undetectable.
There was not much blood on the scene. I think most of it get left in the basement.
I don’t think the labs even tested the solo cups.

JMO

 

[Linda7NJ]

RSBM

Is destroying one's phone/SIM card consciousness of guilt?

I am though - I catch up daily with YouTube - without commentary - I’m watching a highly skilled cross examination by a defense attorney and a lackluster prosecutor in over his head

 

[bobbymkii]

Q: Did the eyewitnesses and EMT's all lie?
A:
Did I hit him?
Could I have hit him?

*several months later*

Did I hit him?!
Could I have hit him?!

 

[Linda7NJ]

Every single person would not have had to lie. But to answer "to protect who?".... Simple. An 18-year-old kid with his whole life ahead of him. And his hot-headed uncle with his reputation and pension ahead of him.

My personal opinion is that this snowballed into a bunch of people agreeing to a cover up OR being roped into it because of favors owed or past misdeeds being exposed if they didn't (i.e. extortion). This is just my opinion. These guys weren't new officers. They've been around the block. Many years to rack up some shadiness and things they might not want exposed to the public for fear of public embarrassment or worse - criminal charges.

Just my opinion.

So you bought the defense theory hook, line and sinker …before they even presented their case?

 

[LaineyJ]

It’s hardly a vast “conspiracy” when you consider the culture/loyalty that waldojabba mentioned. And besides that, Nearly all of those in attendance at the Albert home that night are tightly bonded/intertwined as family, iirc. Add the lead investigator MP as a close friend to that group. These people have lived intertwined lives for a long time. There are at least two generations involved in these families, too. Some families will do anything to protect their own.

Those who weren’t family but just friends, appear to have no knowledge of the wider going-on’s that night. So cross them off of the so-called conspiracy list.

I think it’s worth remembering that any first responder could be indirectly intimidated by this seemingly powerful group in that town. I can’t remember if we had any issues with testimony from EMTs, for example, though. In some places, you keep your mouth shut if you do happen to know something, too.

I just don’t think it’s that hard of a concept to grasp.

 

[TIGER0822]

snipped
The medical examiner who performed an autopsy on Boston Police Officer John O’Keefe ruled the manner of his death “could not be determined,” according to O’Keefe’s death certificate obtained by 25 Investigates.

Manner of death can be classified five different ways on a death certificate, including accident and homicide.

O’Keefe’s body was discovered during a snowstorm outside the Canton home of another Boston police officer named Brian Albert on Saturday, Jan. 29, 2022. An autopsy lists the cause of death as “blunt impact injuries of the head and hypothermia.” The death certificate was last updated in April 2022.

Medical examiners work independently of law enforcement but have access to police reports and other evidence when determining the cause and manner of death. They can also consult with investigators before issuing a ruling.

25 Investigates: Manner of Boston Police Officer John O’Keefe’s death never determined

Manner of death can be classified 5 different ways on a death certificate including accident and homicide.

www.yahoo.com

Theoretically work independently.
This does not explain the ‘not caused by …’ on the original death cert.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Vast conspiracy ? An “immense” number of people ? IMO Nah, not really.

Are you local to the crime? Do you understand the culture or this particular brand of loyalty in this neck of the woods? It starts out small and gets a tiny bit bigger bc these are people who have each others “back”. Or they do as they are told without asking questions. Its not so complicated

And I for one would not think that blood on the tail light would be a sterling idea. How was he hit, consistent with his wounds, that blood would be on the tail light ?
How are you going to reenact that happening?
When they got to the scene he had blood coming out of his nose and mouth. There was a gash on the back of his head that would have bled profusely. Swollen bruised knuckles on his right hand. Eyes swollen.

Hard to hit him in the back of the head with the tail light when he is over 6 ft tall. If he is in a squatting position it seems his head would be lower than the tail light and the car would likely have run him over.
The blood from the scene was in solo cups so there certainly was access. But Karen’s car was not at the scene.
But back at the Canton precinct we see that the blood evidence is right there in the solo cups inside the stop and shop bag on the sally port by Karen’s car.
So that was an opportunity to smear some of that solo cop liquid onto her taillights.
Maybe they tried and it was undetectable.
There was not much blood on the scene. I think most of it get left in the basement.
I don’t think the labs even tested the solo cups.

JMO

Lab tested one, if I recall correctly
That lab girl with the short grey hair

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I said I hit him it was preceded by a did and proceeded by a question mark. What I thought could have happened was that did I incapacitate him unwittingly somehow and then in his drunkenness passed out.

In the above quote from the Dateline interview Karen Read explains why she said "Did I hit him? when talking to a firefighter.

She seems to say that it's possible she may have done something to incapacitate O'Keefe and because he was drunk he passed out and later died of hypothermia.

Very interesting comment. JMO.

 

[LaineyJ]

So you bought the defense theory hook, line and sinker …before they even presented their case?

You can’t buy the CW case as they haven’t really presented one..

 

[Linda7NJ]

Q: Did the eyewitnesses and EMT's all lie?
A:
Did I hit him?
Could I have hit him?

*several months later*

Did I hit him?!
Could I have hit him?!

Several months later when asked - Karen says no , it’s not possible

Yet that night - SHE KNEW -

 

[Wishbone]

Theoretically work independently.
This does not explain the ‘not caused by …’ on the original death cert.

It certainly does not explain why she made that statement, and I have my own thoughts on why she said that. JMOO

 

[Linda7NJ]

It’s hardly a vast “conspiracy” when you consider the culture/loyalty that waldojabba mentioned. And besides that, Nearly all of those in attendance at the Albert home that night are tightly bonded/intertwined as family, iirc. Add the lead investigator MP as a close friend to that group. These people have lived intertwined lives for a long time. There are at least two generations involved in these families, too. Some families will do anything to protect their own.

Those who weren’t family but just friends, appear to have no knowledge of the wider going-on’s that night. So cross them off of the so-called conspiracy list.

I think it’s worth remembering that any first responder could be indirectly intimidated by this seemingly powerful group in that town. I can’t remember if we had any issues with testimony from EMTs, for example, though. In some places, you keep your mouth shut if you do happen to know something, too.

I just don’t think it’s that hard of a concept to grasp.

I could roll with that I suppose - if the defendant wasn’t Karen and lie so damn much

 

[TTF14]

So you bought the defense theory hook, line and sinker …before they even presented their case?

I don't know that I would say that, but at this point in the trial, based on what is coming out on cross examination, it's what I believe. Since I didn't know anything about this case before this trial started, my mind is open to being changed if the Commonwealth starts putting on an actual case of how Karen Read backed into John O'Keefe, killing him. But so far they have not done that. At all.

MOO IMO

 

[Linda7NJ]

I don't know that I would say that, but at this point in the trial, based on what is coming out on cross examination, it's what I believe. Since I didn't know anything about this case before this trial started, my mind is open to being changed if the Commonwealth starts putting on an actual case of how Karen Read backed into John O'Keefe, killing him. But so far they have not done that. At all.

MOO IMO

I’m mailable too.
I just haven’t seen or heard anything to make me think ZEBRA when I hear galloping at a horse ranch ….

 

[TTF14]

I could roll with that I suppose - if the defendant wasn’t Karen and lie so damn much

What do you mean she lies so damn much? She hasn't even been on the stand. And probably won't be.

IMO MOO