MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #3

[FindHG]

Somewhere back thread I posted a picture of Vanessa taken at the beach in the Rockaways which is not that far as the crow flies, from where Karina was found... still, I think if anything this might be a copycat attack, or simply a coincidence...

Here's the photo again..

http://heavy.com/news/2016/08/vanes...o-leads-murdered-jogger-evidence-latest-news/

ETA: With the backlog in entering rape kit DNA into CODIS, the killer may think his has been entered, when it hasn't yet be done...
ETA: Great to see you on this thread!

Thank you, OldSteve. Great to see you too. Thank you for finding the Rockaway beach information.

Agreed. Copycat getting triggered somehow seems possibles to me too, but the similarities are there. It could be some freak following the news on Karina seeing Vanessa jogging on Sundays and getting triggered or just coincidence.

If it is the same freak, then maybe Karina was practice for him as he was stalking Vanessa. Same type, about the same age, and then Vanessa was his real interest, but that sounds a tad far fetched admittedly.

For some reason Vanessa's selection does not seem as random as Karina's.

 

[ThinkHard]

I'm not sure I believe this is a copycat killing. For one Karinas murder didn't get much media attention up here until after Vanessa's murder. It also took place just 4 days after Karina's murder, which to me seems like a very short time frame for a copycat killing. I just don't see that being likely. It's not like Karinas case was splashed all across main stream media for two weeks giving someone a chance to become obsessed with the case and plan the crime. I just don't see someone both becoming obsessed and planning and attach in the short interval btw the two crimes.

 

[FindHG]

I'm not sure I believe this is a copycat killing. For one Karinas murder didn't get much media attention up here until after Vanessa's murder. It also took place just 4 days after Karina's murder, which to me seems like a very short time frame for a copycat killing. I just don't see that being likely. It's not like Karinas case was splashed all across main stream media for two weeks giving someone a chance to become obsessed with the case and plan the crime. I just don't see someone both becoming obsessed and planning and attach in the short interval btw the two crimes.

That makes sense, thank you Think Hard.

Would any of you, who have checked out the maps, have a pin point location for where she was found? I think the google map of the area is dated and the path is more overgrown now, if I'm not wrong.

Thank you in advance.

 

[twbcpa89]

That makes sense, thank you Think Hard.

Would any of you, who have checked out the maps, have a pin point location for where she was found? I think the google map of the area is dated and the path is more overgrown now, if I'm not wrong.

Thank you in advance.

Credit u/ThinkHard in post #820 of thread #2:

 

[ThinkHard]

That makes sense, thank you Think Hard.

Would any of you, who have checked out the maps, have a pin point location for where she was found? I think the google map of the area is dated and the path is more overgrown now, if I'm not wrong.

Thank you in advance.

If you go back through the threads this was explored in full detail and we do know where she was found. It was along the end/unused section of Connors Lane.

The only reasons it more overgrown presently then it appears on Google maps is because those Google map images appear to be taken in late or early winter when all the foliage was off the trees.

 

[ThinkHard]

Credit u/ThinkHard in post #820 of thread #2:

Thanks! I'm only on my phone so it's hard to look back through the old posts. Thanks for finding this.

 

[twbcpa89]

u/FindHG:
If you are going to go back through the threads; there is some really great sleuthing on page 50-67 of thread #2.
Not sure why none of those great conversations carried over to thread #3??

I think we were on a really good track with the discussion of police log books as they relate to local attempted abduction cases (IMO).

 

[ThinkHard]

These are some things that stuck out to me from the Princeton Police Log:

Sunday August 7

8:45 p.m. Caller reports person in pickup truck stopped
and inquired about missing female, Mountain Rd.

10:43 p.m. Caller reports something in the woods, Sam
Cobb Lane

Princeton Police responded to two burglar alarms
Editor’s note: Logs are complete as given to the paper. A
call regarding a missing jogger on Aug. 7 did not appear in
the Princeton Police logs given to The Landmark.

Monday, August 8
4:24 p.m. Caller reports suspicious male in pickup truck
came to house to talk about what was going on in the woods

4:57 p.m. Caller reports seeing female walking on Brooks
Station Rd. between 1:20 and 1:25 p.m.

5:07 p.m. Caller reports seeing a vehicle parked beside Brooks Station Rd. with its hood up, male outside vehicle.

6:41 p.m. Caller reports seeing pickup going slow on Brooks
Station Rd. around 1:15 p.m.

9:56 p.m. Caller reports seeing female jogging on Brooks
Station Rd. in the afternoon.


Tuesday, August 9h
5:49 a.m. Caller reports seeing a white vehicle parked on side
of Brooks Station Rd. on Sunday around 3 p.m.

6:53 a.m. Caller reports seeing a vehicle parked in the woods,
male occupant, Ball Hill Rd.

7:30 p.m. Caller reports finding a Cricket cell phone,
Westminster Rd. & Mountain Rd.

3:18 p.m. Caller reports that while running down Boylston/
Radford Rd. earlier this summer, she noticed a white truck slow down and watch her while she ran

 

[ThinkHard]

What stands out to me from above is a pick up truck. Anyone else?

The calls on the 8th and 9th would have all been called in before the tip line was set up...so anyone who saw something suspicious from Sunday would have called Princeton police dispatcher and thus above I believe is mostly people calling in tips.

 

[kirus]

If you go back through the threads this was explored in full detail and we do know where she was found. It was along the end/unused section of Connors Lane.

The only reasons it more overgrown presently then it appears on Google maps is because those Google map images appear to be taken in late or early winter when all the foliage was off the trees.

I'm not so sure that she was found on the unused section of Connors lane as that runs diagonal to the road. All of the footage I've seen shows the trail heading straight into the woods.

 

[ThinkHard]

I'm not so sure that she was found on the unused section of Connors lane as that runs diagonal to the road. All of the footage I've seen shows the trail heading straight into the woods.

If you were to drive by it in person you would see it definelty is that end of Connors lane.

 

[twbcpa89]

What stands out to me from above is a pick up truck. Anyone else?

The calls on the 8th and 9th would have all been called in before the tip line was set up...so anyone who saw something suspicious from Sunday would have called Princeton police dispatcher and thus above I believe is mostly people calling in tips.

Doesn't the call about the suspicious truck guy come in at practically the same time VM was found (8:30pm if IIRC), that is suspicious.

But, maybe the guy had just seen the cell phone notification about VM being missing, that is why he asked?

Edit: clarity

 

[FindHG]

If you go back through the threads this was explored in full detail and we do know where she was found. It was along the end/unused section of Connors Lane.

The only reasons it more overgrown presently then it appears on Google maps is because those Google map images appear to be taken in late or early winter when all the foliage was off the trees.

u/FindHG:
If you are going to go back through the threads; there is some really great sleuthing on page 50-67 of thread #2.
Not sure why none of those great conversations carried over to thread #3??

I think we were on a really good track with the discussion of police log books as they relate to local attempted abduction cases (IMO).

Thank you so so much, twbcpa89 and Think Hard. Very helpful!!! I'm still catching up and appreciate your patience...

I did notice a post on the the Westminster PD page
**Stolen Bicycle???** This morning we were alerted to a bicycle in the woods on East Road in the area of Leino Park this morning. The bicycle is in great condition and well maintained unfortunately to this point no one has reported their bicycle missing or stolen. This however is also NOT the bicycle that we posted several weeks back stolen in Leino Park. So for those in the area please check and make sure none of your bicycles are missing. Thanks and please share!!

I'm having trouble uploading images, the link should work, just in case there's something the could be related.

Map Link for Bike Route

What stands out to me from above is a pick up truck. Anyone else?

The calls on the 8th and 9th would have all been called in before the tip line was set up...so anyone who saw something suspicious from Sunday would have called Princeton police dispatcher and thus above I believe is mostly people calling in tips.

Yes, me too, on the pick up truck.

 

[twbcpa89]

These are some things that stuck out to me from the Princeton Police Log:

Sunday August 7

8:45 p.m. Caller reports person in pickup truck stopped
and inquired about missing female, Mountain Rd.

10:43 p.m. Caller reports something in the woods, Sam
Cobb Lane

Princeton Police responded to two burglar alarms
Editor’s note: Logs are complete as given to the paper. A
call regarding a missing jogger on Aug. 7 did not appear in
the Princeton Police logs given to The Landmark.

Monday, August 8
4:24 p.m. Caller reports suspicious male in pickup truck
came to house to talk about what was going on in the woods

4:57 p.m. Caller reports seeing female walking on Brooks
Station Rd. between 1:20 and 1:25 p.m.

5:07 p.m. Caller reports seeing a vehicle parked beside Brooks Station Rd. with its hood up, male outside vehicle.

6:41 p.m. Caller reports seeing pickup going slow on Brooks
Station Rd. around 1:15 p.m.

9:56 p.m. Caller reports seeing female jogging on Brooks
Station Rd. in the afternoon.


Tuesday, August 9h
5:49 a.m. Caller reports seeing a white vehicle parked on side
of Brooks Station Rd. on Sunday around 3 p.m.

6:53 a.m. Caller reports seeing a vehicle parked in the woods,
male occupant, Ball Hill Rd.

7:30 p.m. Caller reports finding a Cricket cell phone,
Westminster Rd. & Mountain Rd.

3:18 p.m. Caller reports that while running down Boylston/
Radford Rd. earlier this summer, she noticed a white truck slow down and watch her while she ran

Obviously LE was calculating something by not releasing the entire August 7th logbook.
But why release only two calls, rather than nothing at all?

Maybe as some kind of subtle communication to the perp?
Meaning something like: we know what you're driving, and we know you were over on Sam Cobb Rd. at 10:45, so you better surrender.

(pure speculation on my part)

 

[ThinkHard]

Obviously LE was calculating something by not releasing the entire August 7th logbook.
But why release only two calls, rather than nothing at all?

Maybe as some kind of subtle communication to the perp?
Meaning something like: we know what you're driving, and we know you were over on Sam Cobb Rd. at 10:45, so you better surrender.

(pure speculation on my part)

I don't think anything was calculated. There were more calls on the day she was murdered then just above, but those were the two that seemed potentially related.

It's a little unclear if a call was made about Vanessa being missing or if it had been reported to the police in person. Which might explain the lack of calls regarding when she went missing. If they were intentionally left out its probably for the privacy of the family if anything.

But a highly doubt it's a subtle message to the perp. PPD is incredibly small. The landmark publishes the police logs from the five towns every Thursday. So the PD's hand over copies of the logs tues/Wednesday from the week prior. It als means the log wouldn't have been published for a perp to see until 4 days after the murder for the 8/7 entry, and 11 days for the entries starting 8/8....so it doesn't seem like the most effective way to send a message to the perp. JMO.

 

[ThinkHard]

Thank you so so much, twbcpa89 and Think Hard. Very helpful!!! I'm still catching up and appreciate your patience...

I did notice a post on the the Westminster PD page
**Stolen Bicycle???** This morning we were alerted to a bicycle in the woods on East Road in the area of Leino Park this morning. The bicycle is in great condition and well maintained unfortunately to this point no one has reported their bicycle missing or stolen. This however is also NOT the bicycle that we posted several weeks back stolen in Leino Park. So for those in the area please check and make sure none of your bicycles are missing. Thanks and please share!!

I'm having trouble uploading images, the link should work, just in case there's something the could be related.

Map Link for Bike Route




Yes, me too, on the pick up truck.

I'm confused by the bike route? Could you explain?

It seems you have both paths starting near where the mountain barn is, rather then where Vanessa's body was. Is their a reason for this?

Also im not so sure someone would have fled all the way to Westminster (which is on the opposite side of Princeton from where Vanessa was) on a bike. It would have taken them down mostly busy roads where they would have been more likely to be seen, and perhaps noticed....especially with scratches and bruises on you.

Mountain Road is fairly busy and not the safest place to bike ride as well. Usually the only bikers I see on that road are the serious biker types that do long distances and are decked out in sleek helmets, spandex, and multiple water bottles.

 

[FindHG]

eucalyptuz's Case Map post #229, #2 thrd

Map Link Showing Possible Short Cut

Her phone was said to have pinged close the 3 pm, IIRC, around Mountain Barn cell tower, that utility path running from Barn Hill to Worscester Rd runs near there.

Map Showing Street View Brook Station and Ball Hill Rd by the cemetery

 

[FindHG]

I'm confused by the bike route? Could you explain?

It seems you have both paths starting near where the mountain barn is, rather then where Vanessa's body was. Is their a reason for this?

Also im not so sure someone would have fled all the way to Westminster (which is on the opposite side of Princeton from where Vanessa was) on a bike. It would have taken them down mostly busy roads where they would have been more likely to be seen, and perhaps noticed....especially with scratches and bruises on you.

Mountain Road is fairly busy and not the safest place to bike ride as well. Usually the only bikers I see on that road are the serious biker types that do long distances and are decked out in sleek helmets, spandex, and multiple water bottles.

I know, it doesn't make much sense. It's a "just if?" thought. I'm having a hard time with the idea that he would be parked near the crime scene since a car would draw attention to him. If he planned to not be noticed while he lit a fire wouldn't having his car nearby increase his risk of being noticed, identified, or caught in the act. He would have wanted to control his environment with the least amount of risk to him. Since runners, church goers, bikers tend to use that road, he risked being noticed stalking there with a car. He could have ridden or walked back to a parking lot nearby maybe?

I don't know why, but I have this image of him knocking her off the road from behind, then setting upon her. She was smart, aware of Karina's case in NYC maybe, so not an easy target for a ruse. It would've been hard to do that with a car, but on a bike, I can see it.

 

[ThinkHard]

eucalyptuz's Case Map post #229, #2 thrd

Map Link Showing Possible Short Cut

Her phone was said to have pinged close the 3 pm, IIRC, around Mountain Barn cell tower, that utility path running from Barn Hill to Worscester Rd runs near there.

Map Showing Street View Brook Station and Ball Hill Rd by the cemetery

I'm sorry I'm still not following. Yes her cell phone "pinged" at 2:25
At the cell towers near mountain barn....but in a town that doesn't even have cable cell towers are spread out too, so it's possible that tower was just the nearest to her even if she had been home at her moms just through those woods.

I am confused also as to what you mean by a cut through from ball hill to Worcester road? Ball hill runs into Worcester road.

 

[ThinkHard]

I know, it doesn't make much sense. It's a "just if?" thought. I'm having a hard time with the idea that he would be parked near the crime scene since a car would draw attention to him. If he planned to not be noticed while he lit a fire wouldn't having his car nearby increase his risk of being noticed, identified, or caught in the act. He would have wanted to control his environment with the least amount of risk to him. Since runners, church goers, bikers tend to use that road he risked being noticed stalking there with a car. He could have ridden or walked back to a parking lot nearby maybe?

I don't know why, but I have this image of him knocking her off the road from behind, then setting up her. She was smart, aware of Karina's case in NYC maybe, so not easy target for a ruse. It would've be hard to that with a car, but on a bike, I can see it.

There's a lot about this crime that makes me feel where she was found was staged to look like a random act of violence and a crime of opportunity.

Given the police log reports of a car around 115 and another at 3...I do wonder if she was picked up by a vehicle (maybe willingly) and something happened and then the perp tried to cover it up and point the investigation in a different direction.

also ps I'm not trying to doubt you just wanted to understand your train of thought. Also just FYI I am local so some of the things I might say aren't in any attempt to "argue" with your perspective...just rather to give local insight that hopefully would be helpful in hashing out theories/possibilities.