MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #3

[medtraveler]

Just one quick thing, regarding the video surveillance .... There aren't any gas stations in Princeton, the nearest one I can think of would be at the center of Holden, not sure how close ones in the direction of Westminster/hubbardston/Leominster since I never go that way for anything.

I don't think there's really any chance of video surveillance of the truck or man from Princeton unfortunately.

It strikes me as a place that would warrant a LOT of driving since the town fathers made sure there were no businesses for people to stop at. You would have to drive a ways to get anything you might need. Wherever the locals get their gas, thats where I'd start. And it doesnt sound like that could be too many places.

 

[Dollcat]

Or if she was using some type of app to text or communicate with others. I'm not sure how easy that would be to trace if you didn't have the phone.

Doesnt Snapchat disappear after a certain period of time? I was thinking 24 hours it not sure---honking that is why it's popular with people not wanting to leave trails for parents, spouses, etc to find. Of course,milennials use it for other than nefarious reasons too....idk never used it, my stepdaughter uses it a lot.

 

[ThinkHard]

It strikes me as a place that would warrant a LOT of driving since the town fathers made sure there were no businesses for people to stop at. You would have to drive a ways to get anything you might need. Wherever the locals get their gas, thats where I'd start. And it doesnt sound like that could be too many places.

Where locals get their gas could be any number of places depending on what side of town they lived in and where they worked.


Princeton has some businesses.....for example a ski mountain, mountain side market, the pizza place next door to it, mountain barn, Sonoma (which is in a plaza on Worcester road with a few other businesses), a few antique stores, a wool shop, Xmas tree farms, and a few others. What it doesn't have is chain stores, supermarkets, or gas stations.

Most people from Princeton are going to go to Holden or Leominster for gas and groceries, again depending on what side of town. For other stuff that you can't get in Holden you'd go to Worcester....or to clothes shop out even further. But both Worcester and Leominster are cities and it would be easy to go u detected in either.

 

[carbuff]

There is or used to be a gas station at the 140/I190 ramps. It's always busy.




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[ThinkHard]

There is or used to be a gas station at the 140/I190 ramps. It's always busy.




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Isnt 140/190 the exit in Sterling at exit 5? I know there is no gas station there. I know there is one at the west boylston exit which is one up from that toward Worcester. Neither one that is really "near" the crime scene though.

 

[liz b.]

Agreed, risky. For a forest fire in fact. Was she, in fact, set on fire?
I can tell you we are in the worst drought here in recorded history. In a heavily wooded area, unless he had a fire truck, I don't see how he put it out.
Locals can say how dry it is in in Princeton, but I am not aware of any town not under water restrictions either out there or here in Eastern MA.
The scorch marks I saw in a video, I still say were from an old brush fire on dead trees. And where people say the ground was scorched I see green.

All I have seen in MSM is that she had burns on her feet, hands and head. We don't know the extent of those burns.
It could well be torturing with a lit cigarette for all we know.


MOO

Burning to get info, or to hurt her makes sense, I agree. I think that's more likely, but jmo

 

[marble]

They do outreach work, which is helping "the community" (aka drug addicts or struggling families). Except princeton doesnt really need any help?? There are some weird lookin people, and a weird youtube vid by one of their members. Its evangelical and preaches "heaven or hell". Isnt princeton an affluent town that has minimum acreage laws? Some of these church members look like the trailer park variety. .

This is incredibly classist, offensive, and ugly.

imo

 

[medtraveler]

This is incredibly classist, offensive, and ugly.

imo

I don't understand, but I'm sorry if I offended you in any way.

 

[carbuff]

Isnt 140/190 the exit in Sterling at exit 5? I know there is no gas station there. I know there is one at the west boylston exit which is one up from that toward Worcester. Neither one that is really "near" the crime scene though.

The West Boylston one is the one I mean. I thought that was 140 though. I haven't been past it for a couple of years so my memory is rusty. It's the one that lots of people go past if they're commuting from the area into Worcester, or going to ski, hike, or continue beyond to some other trails and lakes. And yes, it's not near. That was my point--agreeing with you that nothing is really close.

I shouldn't try to comment late at night [emoji12]




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[compassionate]

Speculative or not, it is good to see activity in this thread. It was quite slow there for awhile, and I found it added to the sadness of this tragic case. I will jump out on a limb. 1st, do we have consensus about where the body was found in terms of distance from the road. 300 feet back in the woods is what sticks in my memory. 2nd, somewhere I read that the burns were postmortem, and also read that it was hands, feet, and part of her head. What LE said at the time was "horrific", which they repeated. My feeling was the perp was doing forensic countermeasures to escape detection, both in DNA and identifying the body. I felt the perp likely did not realize that it is (apparantly) hard to burn up a human body, and also that he did not expect LE to find her so fast. My recollection is LE would not say whether the site where she was found was also the site where she was murdered.
I just find it unlikely that Vanessa was meeting someone intentionally that afternoon. It was about 1pm, she had a 4:30 bus to catch. I do feel she came home often because she was close to her family, enjoyed them, enjoyed being out of the City, etc. If, and I do not think so, but if she had some private romance that she wanted to keep from family, she had the whole of New York City for that. I did see one reference in the press that she had a boyfriend who was in Australia at the time.
I also think this perp was aware of Vanessa and of her habits and had scoped out this spot from which to ambush her where he had a view 1/2 mile each direction, and could hide. I think the random rapist/murderer would have had too few possible passerbys to "set up shop" in this specific patch of nature.
Really we have so little to go on. LE has said almost nothing directly. We have what the Press has gotten out of LE and some others, but we cannot count on its accuracy.
The above are just my personal thoughts. I repeat how I find this crime to be especially shocking because I see all the circumstances that day as appearing to be totally low risk.
I like reading everyone's points of view, and especially appreciate the local folks' press links.

 

[jbbb]

Speculative or not, it is good to see activity in this thread. It was quite slow there for awhile, and I found it added to the sadness of this tragic case. I will jump out on a limb. 1st, do we have consensus about where the body was found in terms of distance from the road. 300 feet back in the woods is what sticks in my memory. 2nd, somewhere I read that the burns were postmortem, and also read that it was hands, feet, and part of her head. What LE said at the time was "horrific", which they repeated. My feeling was the perp was doing forensic countermeasures to escape detection, both in DNA and identifying the body. I felt the perp likely did not realize that it is (apparantly) hard to burn up a human body, and also that he did not expect LE to find her so fast. My recollection is LE would not say whether the site where she was found was also the site where she was murdered.
I just find it unlikely that Vanessa was meeting someone intentionally that afternoon. It was about 1pm, she had a 4:30 bus to catch. I do feel she came home often because she was close to her family, enjoyed them, enjoyed being out of the City, etc. If, and I do not think so, but if she had some private romance that she wanted to keep from family, she had the whole of New York City for that. I did see one reference in the press that she had a boyfriend who was in Australia at the time.
I also think this perp was aware of Vanessa and of her habits and had scoped out this spot from which to ambush her where he had a view 1/2 mile each direction, and could hide. I think the random rapist/murderer would have had too few possible passerbys to "set up shop" in this specific patch of nature.
Really we have so little to go on. LE has said almost nothing directly. We have what the Press has gotten out of LE and some others, but we cannot count on its accuracy.
The above are just my personal thoughts. I repeat how I find this crime to be especially shocking because I see all the circumstances that day as appearing to be totally low risk.
I like reading everyone's points of view, and especially appreciate the local folks' press links.

I think the fact that the circumstances seemed so low risk, is the one that makes me think it is someone local and it was not supposed to happen the way it did. When I read one of the first articles in the Landmark local paper, other stories on the main page told me a alot about the kind of town this is. I couldn't help but notice that area had suffered more than one recent tragedy. People have to be reeling from other events as well.

 

[FindHG]

In wiping out DNA evidence, by burning Vanessa's face, hands and feet, could the perp have also been hiding some thing he'd done to them as well?

There are no perfect places, or perfect people, but trying to find who did this to Vanessa is a perfect pursuit to justify deep questioning and tolerance.

Her family was reported in MSM to have been out looking for her that afternoon, at the Barn, so the ping may have been a distraction from her remains. As considered upthread, I agree it may have been that the perp didn't expect Vanessa to be that soon found?

I've seen some spooky pickups too. I would guess a thing in common is they can be washed down more easily.

 

[ThinkHard]

The West Boylston one is the one I mean. I thought that was 140 though. I haven't been past it for a couple of years so my memory is rusty. It's the one that lots of people go past if they're commuting from the area into Worcester, or going to ski, hike, or continue beyond to some other trails and lakes. And yes, it's not near. That was my point--agreeing with you that nothing is really close.

I shouldn't try to comment late at night [emoji12]




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That's West Boylston Street not 140, in West Boylston where it meets 190. I'm not sure I follow though why Worcester people would go to that gas station to get to the Mountain though, or to pass it to go hiking as it wouldn't really be on the way to either. If think if you were going Worcester to Princeton you'd either take 290 to 190 past that exit and get off at either exit 5 or exit 6 both in Sterling. Or you'd go through Holden down 31.

Though I suppose you could go out West Boylston street to where it meets up with 140 by the reservoir. But if think only locals would go that way, and only if they were coming from the burncoat side of Worcester or the Worcester/ west Boylston line.

We take a Sunday drive out there about every other weekend to get breakfast sandwhiches at mountain side market, and usually drive back roads cause it's more scenic.

 

[ThinkHard]

Speculative or not, it is good to see activity in this thread. It was quite slow there for awhile, and I found it added to the sadness of this tragic case. I will jump out on a limb. 1st, do we have consensus about where the body was found in terms of distance from the road. 300 feet back in the woods is what sticks in my memory. 2nd, somewhere I read that the burns were postmortem, and also read that it was hands, feet, and part of her head. What LE said at the time was "horrific", which they repeated. My feeling was the perp was doing forensic countermeasures to escape detection, both in DNA and identifying the body. I felt the perp likely did not realize that it is (apparantly) hard to burn up a human body, and also that he did not expect LE to find her so fast. My recollection is LE would not say whether the site where she was found was also the site where she was murdered.
I just find it unlikely that Vanessa was meeting someone intentionally that afternoon. It was about 1pm, she had a 4:30 bus to catch. I do feel she came home often because she was close to her family, enjoyed them, enjoyed being out of the City, etc. If, and I do not think so, but if she had some private romance that she wanted to keep from family, she had the whole of New York City for that. I did see one reference in the press that she had a boyfriend who was in Australia at the time.
I also think this perp was aware of Vanessa and of her habits and had scoped out this spot from which to ambush her where he had a view 1/2 mile each direction, and could hide. I think the random rapist/murderer would have had too few possible passerbys to "set up shop" in this specific patch of nature.
Really we have so little to go on. LE has said almost nothing directly. We have what the Press has gotten out of LE and some others, but we cannot count on its accuracy.
The above are just my personal thoughts. I repeat how I find this crime to be especially shocking because I see all the circumstances that day as appearing to be totally low risk.
I like reading everyone's points of view, and especially appreciate the local folks' press links.

In some articles the distance was reported as 30 yards, others stated 100. I've never seen it as 300 though...perhaps your memory merged the 30 and 100 numbers?

Regarding using the burning to cover her identity, I think that's pretty unlikely or that would have to be incredibly stupid. She wasn't found that far off the road, and the fire didn't cover DNA as it was still recovered from her body. In a town as small and affluent as Princeton 20 something don't just go missing, and bodies don't just turn up in the woods...so I find it hard to believe that a perp wouldn't know she would be identified immediately. If they were trying to hide her body a doubt they would have left it on an obvious path as well.

Regarding wether a potentional romance could have been at home instead of NYC....for one you can't really plan where the person you fall for is going to live ... And two have you ever dated in NYC? It's tough, not to get a ate, but to find someone worth dating who is actually "real". She also grew up in the area, so it could be someone from her past.

 

[ThinkHard]

I think the fact that the circumstances seemed so low risk, is the one that makes me think it is someone local and it was not supposed to happen the way it did. When I read one of the first articles in the Landmark local paper, other stories on the main page told me a alot about the kind of town this is. I couldn't help but notice that area had suffered more than one recent tragedy. People have to be reeling from other events as well.

What other tragedies are you referencing?

The biggest ones to hit our community in recent years, other then this one, was the likely murder when a dentist pushed his wife out the window. There have been a few teen suicides, and there was also the death of Brittany Gengel in Haiti during the earth quake. Her parents have since opened an orphanage in Haiti in her honor.

 

[FindHG]

Outside Vanessa's service, IIRC, one of her hometown classmates mentioned in MSM they were a class of about 60, that everybody knew each other. It doesn't seem like a big pool of people for LE to rule out.

 

[ThinkHard]

Outside Vanessa's service, IIRC, one of her hometown classmates mentioned in MSM they were a class of about 60, that everybody knew each other. It doesn't seem like a big pool of people for LE to rule out.

She went to a K-12 private school in Worcester called Bancroft. It's (at least in my opinion) the absolute best private school in the area and one of the few that are non denominational. You have to be both smart and wealthy to go, or acceptionally smart but poor (as there are a handful of scholarship kids in each class). Most students their are from nicer parts of Worcester, shrewsbury, west Boylston, Holden, Paxton, Princeton, Sterling, maybe a few from Rutland and spencer. Because kids come from different towns there is lots of interaction btw Bancroft kids and kids at other private schools as well as area public schools. So though her class size would be small, her circle of acquaintances wouldn't neccasrily be.

I knew lots of kids at Bancroft, including one of my best friends, but because she hung out with us as much as her school friends she still knew and hung out with all the same public school kids we did. We also use to hang out with her friends and go to events at Bancroft (like battle of the bands) and knew most of her class as well.

Additionally the all boys HS (St. John's in shrewsbury) hosted dances once a month, and since it's all boys, all the girls who went were from all the public and private schools in the area, giving local teens, including Vanessa an even wider range of local aquaintances outside just her Bancroft class.

On a random side note, the owner of the local ski mnt, (wachusett) who lives in Princeton, has daughters that went to Bancroft with Vanessa.

 

[FindHG]

She went to a K-12 private school in Worcester called Bancroft. It's (at least in my opinion) the absolute best private school in the area and one of the few that are non denominational. You have to be both smart and wealthy to go, or acceptionally smart but poor (as there are a handful of scholarship kids in each class). Most students their are from nicer parts of Worcester, shrewsbury, west Boylston, Holden, Paxton, Princeton, Sterling, maybe a few from Rutland and spencer. Because kids come from different towns there is lots of interaction btw Bancroft kids and kids at other private schools as well as area public schools. So though her class size would be small, her circle of acquaintances wouldn't neccasrily be.

LE seems to have a DNA profile, being male would rule out the females among her acquaintances who still live in the area.

Time to investigate potential male suspects among them with pickup trucks she may have come across again, who would have any reason to this to her or the potential to, and no alibi, and a potentially similar DNA profile?

I would think 23 days is enough, since it wouldn't be a huge pool of people. It's still a very active investigation, it seems as well.

 

[ThinkHard]

LE seems to have a DNA profile, being male would rule out the females among her acquaintances who still live in the area.

Time to investigate potential male suspects among them with pickup trucks she may have come across again, who would have any reason to this to her or the potential to, and no alibi, and a potentially similar DNA profile?

I would think 23 days is enough, since it wouldn't be a huge pool of people.

Why would you think it wouldn't be that big of a pool of people? I would think the pool of people would be enormous!

Sure her grade at Bancroft you might be looking at 30 males. But there are also any male peers from her hometown of Leominster. Or if you look at the Wachusetts school district (which includes the town of Princeton) the high school is over 2000 kids spread out over five towns. Even if you were to just look at her grade and eliminating females, your talking 250 people....and that's just at wachusett. Then you'd have to look at west Boylston peers, or guys she would have known from St. John's, and on and on.

The pool of potentional people would be HUGE!

Also the DNA would only help them if they took a sample of a DNA from a POI and compared it against their sample. They wouldn't however beyond gender have much "profile" of the perp from the DNA though.

 

[FindHG]

In comparison, for example to Karina's brutal murder, it's a smaller pool, ThinkHard, would have been the why I would think that. It all takes time, but with all the tips, increased awareness, LE may have other information that rules out certain lines of inquiry.