MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #3

[zoso]

Very very interesting.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Really great posts people; excellent speculations!
Does anyone know if the victim was wearing earbuds/headphones at the time she went running?

 

[carbuff]

Really great posts people; excellent speculations!
Does anyone know if the victim was wearing earbuds/headphones at the time she went running?

That would be one of the rumors...

 

[jbbb]

That is so interesting!

 

[rosesfromangels]

Yes. If she were wearing earbuds, the element of a surprise attack would be easier, in theory.
A good reminder to unplug, and stay alert.

 

[Rocky1]

Yes. If she were wearing earbuds, the element of a surprise attack would be easier, in theory.
A good reminder to unplug, and stay alert.

The timeline given by LE was between 1:00pm - 3:00pm. Her normal time jogging was about 1 1/2 hrs.
If she was attacked/ambushed when she first left her mothers house, and it was 1`/2 mile away. That gave the perp just under 2 hours to do what he did. The cart road she was found on is on the same side of the road that her moms house is on, meaning if she did get attacked when she first left, she was jogging with the traffic flow, although there was hardly any/no traffic. That road is fairly wide. 2 lane with painted lines, plus a border line painted while with a few feet on each side of that. Point being that if she was jogging against traffic, the perp would have had to cross the road, giving her more of a chance of seeing him, plus taking a chance of traffic seeing him as well, if a car was to drive by, as he would have had to drag/force her across the road.
If she was attacked/ambushed when she was returning on her run, and it was a 1 1/2 hr run, that would have given the perp only 1/2 hours to what he did, if she did the full 1 1/2 hour jog. She would have been jogging against traffic on the same side of the road as the cart road.
To me it makes sense she was jogging with the traffic, seeing as there wasn't much if any, and was attacked when she first left.
There is however one thing that has me thinking that it may have happened when she was returning, and that is her cell phone ping. That happened at about 2:45, which would have been about the time she was right there, give or take a few minutes. Not enough info on that, but I was thinking she may have tried to signal that she was in trouble, but again, not much time for the perp to do everything that he did if that is the case.
Below is a link of the entrance of the cart road. it also will give you an idea of how wide the road is and how exposed he would have been if he did cross the road.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.437...4!1swUDhqHyFMGZYhtDdiYpJDA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

[rosesfromangels]

I just keep imagining this Perp on a bicycle, motorcycle, or even horse?
What if he yelled out for help! Help! And she went to investigate?
That's why I asked about the earbuds.
Maybe getting a bit far fetched, but somewhat plausible.
Chances are he just lay in wait in the bushes and lunged at her.
By the way, seeing the road really gave me the creeps. Poor girl.

 

[Rocky1]

I just keep imagining this Perp on a bicycle, motorcycle, or even horse?
What if he yelled out for help! Help! And she went to investigate?
That's why I asked about the earbuds.
Maybe getting a bit far fetched, but somewhat plausible.
Chances are he just lay in wait in the bushes and lunged at her.
By the way, seeing the road really gave me the creeps. Poor girl.

When I first looked at this layout the very first thing that came to my mind was a bike. The grass is now mowed along that road right now, but at the time it wasn't. If there was a car/motorcycle parked right there, it would have matted down the grass. the same goes for the cart road, there would have been grass matted.
He could have very easily carried a bike in the woods, leaving no tracks, walked back out, waited for her, did what he did, and carried the bike out, got on and pedaled away.
I would think if he was on a horse, that would have stuck out more than a bike, especially if he had injuries to his face.I think people would have remembered that more. With a bike, he could have had a helmet on and sunglasses covering up a lot of that, especially if he kept his head down while he was pedaling.

 

[FindHG]

Great posts to catch up with, thank you to all the posters.

This will be my convoluted attempt to put down what I'm wondering. ThinkHard, I'm confused on this so expect the same .

There's two ways he could have gone, leaving the cart path and Brook Station Rd, in a car.
One way would have been toward Ball Hill Rd the other would've taken him past Vanessa's parents.
Which ever way he took, he was never picked up on any security cams or by witnesses beyond that point on Brook Station Rd to identify him or his car, or none that LE has so far shared.
So it may be possible, assuming a car is involved with Vanessa's murder, that the perp may live within the range of any and all known security cameras he could have possibly hit, yet unfamiliar enough to locals not to be noticeable?

 

[FindHG]

I just keep imagining this Perp on a bicycle, motorcycle, or even horse?
What if he yelled out for help! Help! And she went to investigate?
That's why I asked about the earbuds.
Maybe getting a bit far fetched, but somewhat plausible.
Chances are he just lay in wait in the bushes and lunged at her.
By the way, seeing the road really gave me the creeps. Poor girl.

When I first looked at this layout the very first thing that came to my mind was a bike. The grass is now mowed along that road right now, but at the time it wasn't. If there was a car/motorcycle parked right there, it would have matted down the grass. the same goes for the cart road, there would have been grass matted.
He could have very easily carried a bike in the woods, leaving no tracks, walked back out, waited for her, did what he did, and carried the bike out, got on and pedaled away.
I would think if he was on a horse, that would have stuck out more than a bike, especially if he had injuries to his face.I think people would have remembered that more. With a bike, he could have had a helmet on and sunglasses covering up a lot of that, especially if he kept his head down while he was pedaling.

A bike or on foot, or a combo, was the first thing that came to my mind too, Rocky1.
But LE may have a reason to say a car in that place?

Thank you wonderful Roses.

 

[Rocky1]

Great posts to catch up with, thank you to all the posters.

This will be my convoluted attempt to put down what I'm wondering. ThinkHard, I'm confused on this so expect the same .

There's two ways he could have gone leaving the cart path and Brook Station Rd, in a car.
One way would have been toward Ball Hill Rd the other would've taken him past Vanessa's parents.
Which ever way he took, he was never picked up on any security cams or by witnesses beyond that point on Brook Station Rd to identify him or his car, or none that LE has so far shared.
So it may be possible, assuming a car is involved with Vanessa's murder, that the perp may live within the range of any and all known security camera's he could have possibly hit, yet unfamiliar enough to locals not to be noticeable?

He would have had to go past her moms house to get to Ball Hill Rd, but i know what you are saying.
My thought is, why would there have been a car involved, if he lives near by? He would have taken a chance of the car being seen parked while he was in the woods. I think this was planned out, and I would think he would have thought of that, but maybe not.
As I said in a previous post, I live in a small town not far at all from Princeton, and here if the police see an abandoned car, they stop and run the plate number. I don't see him taking the chance.

 

[rosesfromangels]

What's on the backside of those woods? Can you pop out on the other side? What's over there....

 

[FindHG]

He would have had to go past her moms house to get to Ball Hill Rd, but i know what you are saying.
My thought is, why would there have been a car involved, if he lives near by? He would have taken a chance of the car being seen parked while he was in the woods. I think this was planned out, and I would think he would have thought of that, but maybe not.
As I said in a previous post, I live in a small town not far at all from Princeton, and here if the police see an abandoned car, they stop and run the plate number. I don't see him taking the chance.

That Ball Hill gets me everytime! Thank you Rocky1. And agreed, a car deep in there would have been suspect and he would have no control of not being seen, where as walking to a car or a bike that would put him out of sight seems like it may have been less risk, speculatively.

What's on the backside of those woods? Can you pop out on the other side? What's over there....

There are any number of public parking lots or places to park within a mile 1/2.

Do you think if this perp knew Vanessa he may have watched her family reacting as they started to look for her?

 

[Rocky1]

What's on the backside of those woods? Can you pop out on the other side? What's over there....

Below is a link.
Conner Lane used to exit out on Brook Station rd. If you look at Conner Lane,. draw a line left and connect it to Brook Station Rd, and that would be the cart road.
At the end of Conner Lane it now dead ends into a house and a yard. I thought the same as you, maybe he made an exit that way. If he did, he took a chance of being seen. you can zoom in and see the house.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/3...a20f877bad0d62!8m2!3d42.4409216!4d-71.8868527

 

[rosesfromangels]

I'm sure LE has paid a visit to those houses nicely encased by those woods....would be my first visits.

 

[Rocky1]

That Ball Hill gets me everytime! Thank you Rocky1. And agreed, a car deep in there would have been suspect and he would have no control of not being seen, where as walking to a car or a bike that would put out of sight seems like it may have been less risk, speculatively.



There are any number of public parking lots or places to park within a mile 1/2.

Do you think if this perp knew Vanessa he may have watched her family reacting as they started to look for her?

There are a few parking areas on Brook Station Rd, one being a church on the other end. Most are on Rt 31.
I can't say if he watched or not, but I would think he didn't stick around, especially if he was cut up/bruised. I would think he would have been pumped up, and irritated, but I am just speculating. Maybe what he did made him calm, like he got his fix.

 

[Rocky1]

I'm sure LE has paid a visit to those houses nicely encased by those woods....would be my first visits.

That would have been my first visit too.

 

[Rocky1]

Someone living in that neighborhood that knows those woods and was a lurker, watching her, to me makes perfect sense. However, this is what i was thinking.
As you just said LE would have visited those houses, and I would guess the same night she was found.,on the 7th. I thought about that when I first heard of this. On the 11th, the police gave the second press conference stating that the perp may have had cuts/bruises to his face If the perp had injuries to his face, they would have seen them I would think on anyone in question. That's what made me think he may have not been on foot, but a bike, close enough to make a quick get away back to his home, and not having to walk the distance, but far enough away that LE wouldn't visit. Maybe he rode his bike past her often while she jogged, and got to know her routine. Maybe he knew that cart road because he rode his bike down it to relieve himself on his ride in the past.

 

[FindHG]

There are a few parking areas on Brook Station Rd, one being a church on the other end. Most are on Rt 31.
I can't say if he watched or not, but I would think he didn't stick around, especially if he was cut up/bruised. I would think he would have been pumped up, and irritated, but I am just speculating. Maybe what he did made him calm, like he got his fix.

So, if the one thing he may not have done is hunker down, then he high tailed it out of there. From what you know of the area, which way would he have more likely gone, if not being seen all bruised would have been his priority?

IIRC, a sleuther who had been involved in many searches contended that in many case perps fled south, by instinct or something, would that have been the less riskier way to try to get away from where he murdered Vanessa?

 

[Rocky1]

So, if the one thing he may not have done is hunker down, then he high tailed it out of there. From what you know of the area, which way would he have more likely gone, if not being seen all bruised would have been his priority?

IIRC, a sleuther who had been involved in many searches contended that in many case perps fled south, by instinct or something, would that have been the less riskier way to try to get away from where he murdered Vanessa?

That to me is a hard question to answer. I think it would depend on where he was trying to get to.
The thought had crossed my mind that maybe he had a car/truck parked someplace like the Mountain Barn, and if he did have a bike, rode there, loaded his bike and got of there, but I am thinking more in line with Rose, he was a watcher, and had been watching for a while. Hard to do unless you live somewhat nearby.