MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #4

[rosesfromangels]

I *speculate* they know who the Perp is, and are waiting for lab results to confirm this. MOO

 

[femalejogger]

I don't believe police logs are complete. They're holding some things back.

Could the white car at 3 have been someone searching for Vanessa? If my daughter usually ran for an hour and wasn't back in 2, wasn't answering her cell and had recently been diagnosed with Crohn's, I might be out looking for her, especially if she had to leave for NYC at 4 to catch a bus. Whatever the case, I don't see the killer nabbing her in his car at 1ish and hanging around for two hours. I also don't see the killer nabbing her, driving to a second location, killing her, returning to a half mile of her home, pulling onto private property, removing the body, gathering kindling, starting a fire, and leaving in such a short time frame. But the biggest question is this - if he's got her in his car, why stay any length of time in that area? Once she's in that car, he can drive onto any path in town (there are many) and extend the search for hours/days/even years. Better yet, he can drive out of town and bury the body. No DNA, nothing at all to tie him to the crime.

The cart path where the body was found off BSR has always troubled me. What if it's a diversion? He leaves her there so everyone thinks a car pulled in there. It's the first thing anyone would think. So the police, neighbors, etc, are looking for a car on BSR on Sunday afternoon when in fact there was never a car on BSR to look for at all.

Just a theory.

I agree with you JEF regarding the police logs. The first call listed in the Landmark Police log for Aug 7 is 3:48 pm. We know the call from Vanessa's family is missing. I would not be surprised if there was at least one other call redacted - perhaps one reporting a suspicious vehicle on BSR. That would explain LE's plea for info on a vehicle.

VM's aunt did look for her.. From the Worcester Telegram, "Noel B. Richards, 19, said Ms. Marcotte’s aunt approached him at his home on Ball Hill Road around 4:30 p.m. Sunday, desperate to find Vanessa and asking if he had seen her. Mr. Richards said the woman was parked on the side of the road looking for Ms. Marcotte. He said he had never met the woman before and did not know the family. The woman told him that Ms. Marcotte left her mother’s house around 1 p.m. for a run, he said, and had a bus ticket for 4:30 from Worcester to New York, but hadn’t returned.

Here is the link: http://www.telegram.com/news/20160809/more-than-100-attend-vigil-in-princeton-for-slain-woman

 

[Kickoff61]

Hmmmmm a man, I wonder if they have DNA?

They have not reported what they have for evidence.

 

[femalejogger]

Does anyone remember if the Karina Vetrano crime was well known at that point? Or did it gain national attention After VM's murder?

Yes, KV's murder was widely reported before VM was killed. And the physical resemblance was quickly noted.

 

[JEF]

I think it's possible the perp is from town but I think it's also likely he studied the area, and her, ahead of time. Could be anyone from the region with a reason to pass through or spend time in the area. This crime seems to have been planned, is risky, shows an attempt to destroy forensic evidence. If she was tied to the tree and burned, it suggests some level of sadism and/or torture. All that points to an organized, possibly experienced, confident perp. who is confident enough to commit a crime half a mile from her home in a 2-hour window in broad daylight. As you said kickoff - brazen.

 

[JEF]

I keep going back to the sequence. The crimes seem different to me, but maybe I'm wrong about that. If the VM perp is organized, he probably follows the news. Perhaps he decided to act when he did because he knew much effort would be spent looking for a NYC-based killed. Interesting too, that we know so much more about KV's murder - the method, the evidence left behind, even that the killer was left-handed. Why?

Yes, KV's murder was widely reported before VM was killed. And the physical resemblance was quickly noted.

 

[Kickoff61]

It seems like if she was in the vehicle, he would more likely do the crime at a more remote 'distance' from her home. But if he lived nearby could have used vehicle for part of his actions.

 

[Dollcat]

Does anyone remember if the Karina Vetrano crime was well known at that point? Or did it gain national attention After VM's murder?

We saw it on national news pretty much right after KV was found. I am in the Dallas area and I remember my stepdaughter was home visiting from Westpoint between some of her summer classes.

 

[Kickoff61]

It seems complex and taking time because the person is not new to this.

 

[Kickoff61]

Jef - You have many good points.

 

[Kickoff61]

They have a lot of resources to solve this.

 

[ThinkHard]

They have not reported what they have for evidence.

No but they had asked people to look out for a scratched man. So one can guess they know he's scratched from what they found under her fingernsils, i.e. Skin cells...its likely they tested this evidence this being the reason they know it's male...and thus within fairly good reason we can conclude that in all likelihood they do in fact have his DNA.

 

[ThinkHard]

Yes, KV's murder was widely reported before VM was killed. And the physical resemblance was quickly noted.

Being local to VM's murder, I do not recal KV's murder being widely reported around her. I'm sure there was a news story but I don't recall it being bigness news around here until after VM's.

 

[Mskin]

They have not reported what they have for evidence.

I recall reports of dna found at the scene which led to a declaration of perps gender. I'll have to find a source unless someone can confirm or debunk this.


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[rosesfromangels]

But we know something on her was burned, so how can you say you don't think there was any fire? Multiple times we have heard from MSM she was burnt....that has ZERO to do with some mythical local rumor your theorizing.

I don't think someone built a fire, but obviously some type of flame/fire burned her to some extent. So some type of flame had to exist to burn her, one would think.

So In your mind what do you think caused the burns to her? Or do you just believe she wasn't actually burned at all? I'm confused.

Such as a blow torch that a roofer might use, as an example.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I think it's possible the perp is from town but I think it's also likely he studied the area, and her, ahead of time. Could be anyone from the region with a reason to pass through or spend time in the area. This crime seems to have been planned, is risky, shows an attempt to destroy forensic evidence. If she was tied to the tree and burned, it suggests some level of sadism and/or torture. All that points to an organized, possibly experienced, confident perp. who is confident enough to commit a crime half a mile from her home in a 2-hour window in broad daylight. As you said kickoff - brazen.

Confident....or crazy, or both.

 

[Mskin]

I recall reports of dna found at the scene which led to a declaration of perps gender. I'll have to find a source unless someone can confirm or debunk this.


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I also recall the nature of the DNA being unknown to us... Wether it was skin under fingernails, hair, fluid... Unknown.


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[ThinkHard]

I think it's possible the perp is from town but I think it's also likely he studied the area, and her, ahead of time. Could be anyone from the region with a reason to pass through or spend time in the area. This crime seems to have been planned, is risky, shows an attempt to destroy forensic evidence. If she was tied to the tree and burned, it suggests some level of sadism and/or torture. All that points to an organized, possibly experienced, confident perp. who is confident enough to commit a crime half a mile from her home in a 2-hour window in broad daylight. As you said kickoff - brazen.

Respectfully I think you'd have to know the area quite well, not just someone who passed through from time to time.

It's not really the type of place you just pass through, as there are no highways nearby to stumble on it, and it's not really in a direct route to anywhere.

Some people come to go skiing in winter, or hike the mountain in the summer, but they mostly stick to 31 or 140 to mountain road, and would never have any reason to be on Brooks Station Road. That road however is the direct route btw Rutland and Princeton though, and would also be the most likley road to take to get to Paxton from Princeton.

Is think if he wasn't from there he'd have to at least have spent a considerable amount of time in Princeton perhaps due to a family connection.

However I believe it's much more likley he was local.

I don't think this crime looks organized and experienced at all, and actually feel it looks much more like someone who committed murder for the first time. I also believe it's possible that the fire is a sign of remorse and a personal connection to the victim who he could no longer stand to see after what he did to her. and in my mind that points not to a sadist but to someone she knew.

Jmo of course.

 

[JEF]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. This forum is great to help think things through. I believe law enforcement is on this and are working hard but I also think they might have a tough time solving this for several reasons. I hope I'm wrong.

If it were someone local with a connection to Vanessa, they would have checked that person out a while back. And like most of us, I do not see someone from NYC committing the crime. Her ties to men in the area were minimal. She'd been to college in Boston, grew up in Leominster, attended private schools, and worked in NYC for a couple of years. Who from town is going to hate her enough to plan to tie her naked to a tree and burn her (I know this is not established, but that's my gut feeling after seeing those pics)? To me, that's not remorse, at least not primarily. That's about rage and it's about power, arguably even a ritualized, religious type of power, perhaps by someone who feels disempowered and rejected. Someone who thinks of himself as a failure and resented her education and success. Maybe she's a type or a substitute for someone who rejected him in the past. The manner of death is painful, vicious and humiliating - it changes that perceived power balance. The same is true of Vetrano too.

There are disorganized elements to the crime for sure. But is some of that due to the time constraint or because it's staged? Maybe it's a devolution, like what happened with Bundy in Florida (not saying he's a serial killer, just thinking aloud). My gut feeling again is that whoever it is wanted her body found quickly; maybe because of remorse or maybe because he would have known it would get national attention because of the KV case. Because the Vatrino case has to play into this in some important way.

I don't think he was overly concerned about DNA because he's not from town, doesn't have close ties to her and has never been caught. Maybe he lived/worked some type of menial job in a town within driving distance and had been in the general region for his whole life. Maybe he knew people in town or in adjoining towns at some point. Either way, he'd been on the path and on the road before, probably several times. He'd probably watched her run before, more than once.

All guesswork. Sorry this is so long!

 

[Kickoff61]

This is a horrific crime. Awful for the community to have to go through! If not staged, it appears any disorganization could have come from her unexpected level of fighting and then rushing to cover things up. Possibly someone overly confident from not having been caught before. It does not seem like any remorse at all.