MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #4

[justwannahelp]

It was unrelated. They had been in a motorcycle accident.

I heard yesterday from an officer that the police really appreciate all of the leads
they get through Websleuths. Some detectives do read through threads pertaining
to their cases. The problem is all the time it takes to pursue all the leads. So let's
make sure we give them good quality leads.

Your logic makes sense. Except, in your scenario, how do we explain the burnt feet?

I'm trying to read through to catch up
and when I read this "why burn her feet" it was the first time I asked myself without just reading "he burned her feet, hair..." in an article

So this popped into my mind. He sees her, assaults her, kills her, then freaks out - like oh my gosh I just killed someone. So he thinks I need to get rid of her body. He goes to his truck panicking and thinking if I put the body in my truck her DNA wil be there so I need to bury her. But he has no shovel. So he sees his blowtorch cuz he's a metal smith or iron worker of some sort and decides he will try to burn the body to get rid of all the evidence. He has trouble getting the fire to "take"

he knows he's running out of time before someone sees his truck etc so he leaves

Or his blow torch runs out of fuel???

Is it's crazy far fetched? I know nothing about blow torches, but I worked with a metal smith on an interior design project. He makes wrought iron stair railings and gates which are very very popular down here in high end new construction homes. Maybe he was a metal smith working on a house in the area?

This theory depends on the motive of rape. Do we know that happened or has LE not confirmed that?

I hate to ask

 

[Kickoff61]

I'm trying to read through to catch up
and when I read this "why burn her feet" it was the first time I asked myself without just reading "he burned her feet, hair..." in an article

So this popped into my mind. He sees her, assaults her, kills her, then freaks out - like oh my gosh I just killed someone. So he thinks I need to get rid of her body. He goes to his truck panicking and thinking if I put the body in my truck her DNA wil be there so I need to bury her. But he has no shovel. So he sees his blowtorch cuz he's a metal smith or iron worker of some sort and decides he will try to burn the body to get rid of all the evidence. He has trouble getting the fire to "take"

he knows he's running out of time before someone sees his truck etc so he leaves

Or his blow torch runs out of fuel???

Is it's crazy far fetched? I know nothing about blow torches, but I worked with a metal smith on an interior design project. He makes wrought iron stair railings and gates which are very very popular down here in high end new construction homes. Maybe he was a metal smith working on a house in the area?

This theory depends on the motive of rape. Do we know that happened or has LE not confirmed that?

I hate to ask

Thankfully they have been handling this tactfully and not released cause of death or confirmed details of the crime.

 

[DeDee]

That is your opinion of course and your entitled too it.

I however believe it's possible this was indeed an "accidental" murder. I can see a scenario say in which he calls her as she running or just passed by and asked her to talk and she agrees but says she has to be back by a certain time. If the conversation soon took a turn that made VM feel uncomfortable something could have escalated soon after he made contact with her. Putting him in a position where he had to quickly think through how to cover his tracks. If he lived local or already had supplies on him from his line of work or hobbies, the crime and its cover up could have easily taken place within an hour window, and we have been given a 2 hour window to consider.

To me it's entirely possible that this wasn't planned but rather an encounter gone wrong along with a cover up.

It's possible, but unlikely, IMHO. Reason why I think it's planned is that the whole thing seems to have gone through so cleanly. Two months post the tragic event, there seem to be few pointers as to what happened. And the perp had a limited time window to do this - it isn't like the body was found days later. An on-the-spot "accident" would have resulted in more clues being left behind, mistakes being made. Leave alone an altercation and scuffle resulting in people nearby getting alerted ( there were houses not too far away, weren't there)?

Again, an "accident" can't be ruled out - just much less likely. JMO

I need some splainin'. What has been read or heard in MSM to indicate this young lady's death was or could have been an accident?

LEO ordered a rape kit. Rapes are not considered to be accidents.

LEO says the perp may have healing cuts and bruises b/c VM fought her attacker. Fighting an attacker is not an accident. It is an active defensive mechanism instinctively triggered by a threat to our survival.

VMs body was found nude with a shoe nearby. How could she accidentally lose her clothing? How was her hair accidentally burned from her head? Her hands? Her feet?
:cow: Her attacker liked her knowing what he was doing, enjoyed her struggling, and did not knock her out until his fatalistic desires were fulfilled. I can't seem to find anything accidental about VMs murder.

I am interested in the exact location where her body was found on private property. Has anyone been able to ascertain that data? I have the beneficial case map but the pinpoint is approximate. TIA

My sincere condolences to Vanessa's mother, father, aunt, uncle, and all other loved ones. :rose:

 

[Kickoff61]

I need some splainin'. What has been read or heard in MSM to indicate this young lady's death was or could have been an accident?

LEO ordered a rape kit. Rapes are not considered to be accidents.

LEO says the perp may have healing cuts and bruises b/c VM fought her attacker. Fighting an attacker is not an accident. It is an active defensive mechanism instinctively triggered by a threat to our survival.

VMs body was found nude with a shoe nearby. How could she accidentally lose her clothing? How was her hair accidentally burned from her head? Her hands? Her feet?
:cow: Her attacker liked her knowing what he was doing, enjoyed her struggling, and did not knock her out until his fatalistic desires were fulfilled. I can't seem to find anything accidental about VMs murder.

I am interested in the exact location where her body was found on private property. Has anyone been able to ascertain that data? I have the beneficial case map but the pinpoint is approximate. TIA

My sincere condolences to Vanessa's mother, father, aunt, uncle, and all other loved ones. :rose:

Thank you . I would just like to contribute , there have no facts reported to indicate any kind of accident.

 

[Kickoff61]

I need some splainin'. What has been read or heard in MSM to indicate this young lady's death was or could have been an accident?

LEO ordered a rape kit. Rapes are not considered to be accidents.

LEO says the perp may have healing cuts and bruises b/c VM fought her attacker. Fighting an attacker is not an accident. It is an active defensive mechanism instinctively triggered by a threat to our survival.

VMs body was found nude with a shoe nearby. How could she accidentally lose her clothing? How was her hair accidentally burned from her head? Her hands? Her feet?
:cow: Her attacker liked her knowing what he was doing, enjoyed her struggling, and did not knock her out until his fatalistic desires were fulfilled. I can't seem to find anything accidental about VMs murder.

I am interested in the exact location where her body was found on private property. Has anyone been able to ascertain that data? I have the beneficial case map but the pinpoint is approximate. TIA

My sincere condolences to Vanessa's mother, father, aunt, uncle, and all other loved ones. :rose:

I have not seen that data you requested, but the importance of residential properties on her regular running route loop was also addressed.

 

[Kickoff61]

People mentioned a cemetery nearby, which would be open to the public. So the path location to it or 'close by' is private? Has that been confirmed?

 

[Mskin]

This does not appear to be 'accidental' whatsoever - In my opinion. IF someone had helped cover up, it seems the second person would have to be at a house nearby. It is a short time frame.

I think everyone is missing Thinkhards point here. Perhaps the terms "heat of the moment" or "crime of passion" (for gods sake don't jump to conclusions everyone) vs "premeditated" would have been clearer. I don't think TH is indicating VM tripped and fell to an unfortunate death with her clothes falling off and her appendages spontaneously combusting.

I tend to agree. I don't believe there was a drooling psychopath who was escalating or had repeated this crime over and over waiting in the woods to strike - waiting for his moment to do it again.

It makes everyone feel good to call the perp deranged, mentally unstable or a maniac, but look at history people... Otherwise normal seeming people "flip out".

Additionally (@deedee), ordering a "rape kit" is not equal to saying "a rape occured" - otherwise, such a test wouldnt be unnecessary. Indications of intercourse may have been apparent and a rape kit could indicate whether it was consensual or forced. The results of which as far as I know are not public. All we know is "she may have been sexually assaulted."

We know very little folks.


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[Kickoff61]

I think everyone is missing Thinkhards point here. Perhaps the terms "heat of the moment" or "crime of passion" (for gods sake don't jump to conclusions everyone) vs "premeditated" would have been clearer. I don't think TH is indicating VM tripped and fell to an unfortunate death with her clothes falling off and her appendages spontaneously combusting.

I tend to agree. I don't believe there was a drooling psychopath who was escalating or had repeated this crime over and over waiting in the woods to strike - waiting for his moment to do it again.

It makes everyone feel good to call the perp deranged, mentally unstable or a maniac, but look at history people... Otherwise normal seeming people "flip out".

Additionally (@deedee), ordering a "rape kit" is not equal to saying "a rape occured" - otherwise, such a test wouldnt be unnecessary. Indications of intercourse may have been apparent and a rape kit could indicate whether it was consensual or forced. The results of which as far as I know are not public. All we know is "she may have been sexually assaulted."

We know very little folks.


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Again, there are no facts indicating an 'accidental' death or as you say from a 'flip out'. Quite the contrary actually going on DA's earlier warning of caution, etc I don't believe it makes anyone feel good whatsoever to call the person deranged or mentally unstable. This is a clearly horrific crime by someone unstable so it is stated.

 

[Mskin]

Again, there are no facts indicating an 'accidental' death or as you say from a 'flip out'. Quite the contrary actually going on DA's earlier warning of caution, etc I don't believe it makes anyone feel good whatsoever to call the person deranged or mentally unstable. This is a clearly horrific crime by someone unstable so it is stated.

Correct. There are no facts we know indicating premeditated vs non premeditated.

The DAs word of caution has not once been reinforced since its origin. Hence, they have backed off of that. Silence and time erase many things - meaning they don't need to redact the statement. The meaning and fear will gradually disapear.

Things evolve. The police know more, after two months, if there was still a threat to the community, at some point they would reiterate so.

They are stuck. The case is stuck.

My opinion



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[Kickoff61]

No-one knows the status of things. It is nice to stay positive that there will be an appropriate outcome.

 

[justwannahelp]

Thankfully they have been handling this tactfully and not released cause of death or confirmed details of the crime.

Thank you for clarifying.

The only other thing I have to add after reading is a speculation about the supposed car sighting at 3pm. Maybe the car that was spotted was him going back to the crime scene? Maybe he wanted to bury her but changed his mind.

Question: Can they take DNA of local men? They did that here when we had a serial killer on the loose, but I guess since it's not a serial killer - yet- LE isn't to that point of desperation -yet. Not saying it will get to that point. But it is s possibility.

Lastly, just because they ordered a rape kit doesn't mean she was raped. But the fact they didn't come out and say that she was not makes me think that she was. So I'm thinking that was the motive as it usually is.

One more question: What exactly is a cart path? I live in the south, and it's a path for golf carts here. But I don't think that is what the term refers to in Princeton??

 

[Kickoff61]

Thank you for clarifying.

The only other thing I have to add after reading is a speculation about the supposed car sighting at 3pm. Maybe the car that was spotted was him going back to the crime scene? Maybe he wanted to bury her but changed his mind.

Question: Can they take DNA of local men? They did that here when we had a serial killer on the loose, but I guess since it's not a serial killer - yet- LE isn't to that point of desperation -yet. Not saying it will get to that point. But it is s possibility.

Lastly, just because they ordered a rape kit doesn't mean she was raped. But the fact they didn't come out and say that she was not makes me think that she was. So I'm thinking that was the motive as it usually is.

One more question: What exactly is a cart path? I live in the south, and it's a path for golf carts here. But I don't think that is what the term refers to in Princeton??

Thanks for your input. Good point. I was thinking if someone had a car nearby, it is possible he used it to go back and cover things up.
Someone in here claimed hearing about police asking for voluntary DNA samples but I haven't heard of that. I only saw the one man in the media earlier on who was questioned and volunteered his DNA but claimed no involvement.

I am confused about the cart path too.

 

[The Farm]

The term "cart path" threw me too. In the pictures it just shows a "trail" going into the woods which having lived in New England my whole life that is what I have always called them. The trail goes in that way etc.
I did look it up on google and yes it refers to the golf course and they are usually concrete.
Then I was thinking an old horse trail and it maybe was used for pulling a cart but I still have never heard that term for something going into the woods.

 

[Aleph]

I'm local-ish to this case and it's not a commonly heard term around here, either. I think they mean a trail wide enough to drive a car down but not an official road or driveway.


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[Kickoff61]

I'm local-ish to this case and it's not a commonly heard term around here, either. I think they mean a trail wide enough to drive a car down but not an official road or driveway.


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Thank you for that input.

 

[The Farm]

This just entered my feeble mind. Was there ever a big farm/estate there? So much land has been eaten up by developers and many of the big farms the land has been split up, children dont want it, no family to leave it to or whatever the reason. Maybe originally from way back it was always called that and was in fact used for a horse and wagon/cart?

 

[DeDee]

People mentioned a cemetery nearby, which would be open to the public. So the path location to it or 'close by' is private? Has that been confirmed?

Checked it out. The Cemetery is eerily close to where the victim's body, VM, was found. It's a disadvantage that the maps are not updated.
The cell tower is adjacent to the Cemetery near the corner of Radford Rd. and Boylston Ave.
Brooks Station becomes Boylston Ave. at that intersection with Radford Rd.

What is a possible path taken that particular Sunday afternoon? VM left her mom's residence on BSR at 1:00.
In which direction, did she choose to take as she approached Brooks Station Rd. at her mom's driveway?
Her phone pinged near MBR (Mountain Barn Rest.) @ 2:25pm meaning during her TOD window of 2 hours, from 1 til 3, her ph was active and functioning. Can we safely assume that she was on her phone; therefore, she's accosted later or after 2:25pm cell tower pings?
The victim has a habit of running twice a month on Sunday afternoons on these exact roads. Someone was watching and waiting. :cow:

 

[Kickoff61]

Checked it out. The Cemetery is eerily close to where the victim's body, VM, was found. It's a disadvantage that the maps are not updated.
The cell tower is adjacent to the Cemetery near the corner of Radford Rd. and Boylston Ave.
Brooks Station becomes Boylston Ave. at that intersection with Radford Rd.

What is a possible path taken that particular Sunday afternoon? VM left her mom's residence on BSR at 1:00.
In which direction, did she choose to take as she approached Brooks Station Rd. at her mom's driveway?
Her phone pinged near MBR (Mountain Barn Rest.) @ 2:25pm meaning during her TOD window of 2 hours, from 1 til 3, her ph was active and functioning. Can we safely assume that she was on her phone; therefore, she's accosted later or after 2:25pm cell tower pings?
The victim has a habit of running twice a month on Sunday afternoons on these exact roads. Someone was watching and waiting. :cow:

Yes. There has been some discussion about the close proximity of the old cemetery. I think it was determined from her map run routes that she ran North from her mother's house in a loop.

Unsure whether the ping was just to closest tower or whether the killer could have taken phone there. All guesses. I think her family reported the ping, not investigators. So some people speculated it may be from a locate phone AP?

 

[Kickoff61]

A person doesn't have to be waiting in bushes, when there are houses along the running route and/or someone walking or running on the street.

 

[Kickoff61]

Checked it out. The Cemetery is eerily close to where the victim's body, VM, was found. It's a disadvantage that the maps are not updated.
The cell tower is adjacent to the Cemetery near the corner of Radford Rd. and Boylston Ave.
Brooks Station becomes Boylston Ave. at that intersection with Radford Rd.

What is a possible path taken that particular Sunday afternoon? VM left her mom's residence on BSR at 1:00.
In which direction, did she choose to take as she approached Brooks Station Rd. at her mom's driveway?
Her phone pinged near MBR (Mountain Barn Rest.) @ 2:25pm meaning during her TOD window of 2 hours, from 1 til 3, her ph was active and functioning. Can we safely assume that she was on her phone; therefore, she's accosted later or after 2:25pm cell tower pings?
The victim has a habit of running twice a month on Sunday afternoons on these exact roads. Someone was watching and waiting. :cow:

You mention the cell phone tower adjacent to cemetery - so , close by? and your descriptions would be North?