MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #5

[ForensicMass]

Ok. So it would still be seen, if pulled in.

I think you could pull in there to the point where it may not be obvious unless someone was looking directly in there as they drove by (at 20-30mph). But in initial pictures of the scene it didn't look to me like a vehicle had been pulled in there. Had one been pulled in there, I would imagine it would have been readily apparent to LE right off the bat, and we would have been alerted to BOLO for a vehicle right away. Could be wrong of course

 

[Rocky1]

I am not sure why someone would need to do a "test burn."
Some seem to think there had been a previous fire there, and that may very well be true, however, if you look at the crime scene photos, there is gray ash that was left behind from LE gathering evidence, and that ash looks fresh, not from a previous fire.
From that ash it seems to me that more than just a Bic lighter was used.

 

[Kickoff61]

If a vehicle could pull in but still be seen, I'm starting to consider that she was harmed/killed elsewhere and then dropped off near where he grabbed her. (Why he didn't dump her far away is a puzzle, but he obviously didn't. Sorta seems like he wanted her found, doesn't it?)

IDK.

jmopinion at the moment.

Good point. That would open up her attack to be anywhere on the route and then brought there. Then if there was a cover up involved - this could be a secondary scene disposal cover up area and the person would not have to go get something to do it, it would have come with him from where ever he came from.

Yes, and that would seem like he wanted her found. or didn't have time for whatever reason to go further away. And not wanting her in the car that long. Possibly everything taking longer with the fight I keep bringing up (but that is because the fight is a fact that was reported by LE), etc.

 

[Rocky1]

I think you could pull in there to the point where it may not be obvious unless someone was looking directly in there as they drove by (at 20-30mph). But in initial pictures of the scene it didn't look to me like a vehicle had been pulled in there. Had one been pulled in there, I would imagine it would have been readily apparent to LE right off the bat, and we would have been alerted o BOLO for a vehicle right away. Could be wrong of course

I agree. With the grass/weeds being so high at the time, if a car was driven in the path, there would have been tracks matted down, and I would think that LE would have asked people that may have remembered seeing a car inside the path, to call the tip line, being more specific. They would have had that info right away, and by measuring the width, could have determined if it was a full size vehicle or a midsize/compact.
Being a Sunday, and people traveling at their leisure, I am surprised as I have said before that a passenger wouldn't have noticed just by checking out the scenery.

 

[Rocky1]

If a vehicle could pull in but still be seen, I'm starting to consider that she was harmed/killed elsewhere and then dropped off near where he grabbed her. (Why he didn't dump her far away is a puzzle, but he obviously didn't. Sorta seems like he wanted her found, doesn't it?)

IDK.

jmopinion at the moment.

The 2 hour timeline keeps me from thinking he killed her elsewhere.
I would think if he wanted her found, he would have picked a more rural road and left her on the side of the road to be seen by others.
Like everyone else,you could very well be right though.

 

[Kickoff61]

The 2 hour timeline keeps me from thinking he killed her elsewhere.
I would think if he wanted her found, he would have picked a more rural road and left her on the side of the road to be seen by others.
Like everyone else,you could very well be right though.

It all depends if he is in the area, how close he lives to the path.

 

[ForensicMass]

If a vehicle could pull in but still be seen, I'm starting to consider that she was harmed/killed elsewhere and then dropped off near where he grabbed her. (Why he didn't dump her far away is a puzzle, but he obviously didn't. Sorta seems like he wanted her found, doesn't it?)

IDK.

jmopinion at the moment.

I think she was there because he was limited in time and option. I've heard a lot of people suggested that he wanted her to be found. Don't understand that thinking- especially with someone who has burned her head. Also, on a related note, some have also suggested the burning was out of remorse, or to erase what he did. I may have already said this, but that just can't be the case. Remorseful killers (often those who knew their victims) might place the body in a "comfortable" position, or put them face down or place something over the face out of respect and to shield them from the atrocity they just committed. Remorseful killers don't take a fire to the face of someone they just murdered. That act is perhaps even more brutal than the act of killing in itself. This person, in my belief, was not remorseful. He was evil and was covering his tracks with the only means he had available or could think of at the time.

If he wanted her found, he could have dumped her 5 feet off the road.

And I have never believed that she was taken away from BSR and returned when killed. This guy is NOT THAT DUMB. if we had someone who would bring a dead body back to the scene to dump it, we would know who he is by now. Way too much risk in returning to the area.

That being said, I suppose it's possible he tried to attack elsewhere on BSR, strangled her, threw her in the car, drove a short distance looking for the nearest spot to quickly get rid of her, noticed the path and put her in there.

 

[Kickoff61]

I think she was there because he was limited in time and option. I've heard a lot of people suggested that he wanted her to be found. Don't understand that thinking- especially with someone who has burned her head. Also, on a related note, some have also suggested the burning was out of remorse, or to erase what he did. I may have already said this, but that just can't be the case. Remorseful killers (often those who knew their victims) might place the body in a "comfortable" position, or put them face down or place something over the face out of respect and to shield them from the atrocity they just committed. Remorseful killers don't take a fire to the face of someone they just murdered. That act is perhaps even more brutal than the act of killing in itself. This person, in my belief, was not remorseful. He was evil and was covering his tracks with the only means he had available or could think of at the time.

If he wanted her found, he could have dumped her 5 feet off the road.

And I have never believed that she was taken away from BSR and returned when killed. This guy is NOT THAT DUMB. if we had someone who would bring a dead body back to the scene to dump it, we would know who he is by now. Way too much risk in returning to the area.

That being said, I suppose it's possible he tried to attack elsewhere on BSR, strangled her, threw her in the car, drove a short distance looking for the nearest spot to quickly get rid of her, noticed the path and put her in there.

For some reason, I have to keep signing out to see next person's new comment. Anyway if she was killed somewhere else, it wouldn't mean she had to be taken from BSR and back. She could have been attacked anywhere on the route on another road , then taken there. As I have said before this is brazen in daylight on a Sunday afternoon and you have addressed his blatant risk taking too. I don't think we would know him better now if he had brought her to that scene to leave her there. ??

But, I do agree with you , this is not remorseful . Completely evil, by someone lacking empathy - no conscience.

 

[ForensicMass]

I am not sure why someone would need to do a "test burn."
Some seem to think there had been a previous fire there, and that may very well be true, however, if you look at the crime scene photos, there is gray ash that was left behind from LE gathering evidence, and that ash looks fresh, not from a previous fire.
From that ash it seems to me that more than just a Bic lighter was used.

Can you link to this picture that shows the ash?

 

[Kickoff61]

I don't believe the person is dumb at all. This case is not solved yet either, showing indication of complexity. So someone's arrogant above the law attitude may be gained by getting away with other things earlier on leading to being brazen with this in certain ways. I don't think it is necessarily stupid if he had chosen things we don't understand. He seems to have just reached a point where he thinks he can get away with anything, meaning a murder in broad daylight in a neighborhood on a Sunday afternoon.

 

[Rocky1]

For some reason, I have to keep signing out to see next person's new comment. Anyway if she was killed somewhere else, it wouldn't mean she had to be taken from BSR and back. She could have been attacked anywhere on the route on another road , then taken there. As I have said before this is brazen in daylight on a Sunday afternoon and you have addressed his blatant risk taking too. I don't think we would know him better now if he had brought her to that scene to leave here there. ??

But, I do agree with you , this is not remorseful . Completely evil, by someone lacking empathy - no conscience.

If she was in fact attacked on another road first, she would have had to get there, and that would shorten the timeline even more.

 

[Rocky1]

Can you link to this picture that shows the ash?

Give me a minute, I'll dig it up.

 

[ForensicMass]

For some reason, I have to keep signing out to see next person's new comment. Anyway if she was killed somewhere else, it wouldn't mean she had to be taken from BSR and back. She could have been attacked anywhere on the route on another road , then taken there. As I have said before this is brazen in daylight on a Sunday afternoon and you have addressed his blatant risk taking too. I don't think we would know him better now if he had brought her to that scene to leave here there. ??

But, I do agree with you , this is not remorseful . Completely evil, by someone lacking empathy - no conscience.

If he gets her into a car elsewhere, he takes her more than a couple of miles, to a more remote location where there are no potential witnesses to the dumping. I still believe she was taken on BSR. But for the sake of argument, nowhere on her running routes was she more than 3.5 miles from this location. Princeton is rural. There are TONS of more remote areas nearby with no houses. He would have chosen those over the cart path, I think.

 

[Kickoff61]

If she was in fact attacked on another road first, she would have had to get there, and that would shorten the timeline even more.

It depends how close the other road or location is. If she ran by his house, on another road, who is to say a vehicle was involved when she first ran by? It then would only be used to transport her. I am not saying this happened. It is only speculation on the listed of speculated ideas. Again, it is very frustrating with very few facts to help with this.

 

[Kickoff61]

If he gets her into a car elsewhere, he takes her more than a couple of miles, to a more remote location where there are no potential witnesses to the dumping. I still believe she was taken on BSR. But for the sake of argument, nowhere on her running routes was she more than 3.5 miles from this location. Princeton is rural. There are TONS of more remote areas nearby with no houses. He would have chosen those over the cart path, I think.

This is why I have difficulty believing a car was initially involved to begin with. If he had taken her in the vehicle, (and especially being from outside of the area), I believe he would have taken her out of town.

 

[Kickoff61]

I find it very difficult to believe the vehicle was parked there throughout doing this in addition to time there if he chose to take the next act of covering up after he realized her fighting left his DNA behind.

I guess that is a sticking point.

And hard to believe someone was traveling through town who decided to spontaneously do this in this way as well with the means to do it in that particular location.

 

[ForensicMass]

It depends how close the other road or location is. If she ran by his house, on another road, who is to say a vehicle was involved when she first ran by? It then would only be used to transport her. I am not saying this happened. It is only speculation on the listed of speculated ideas. Again, it is very frustrating with very few facts to help with this.

Remember, More than one witness reportedly saw a woman fitting her discription during the time period 1-3pm On BSR. There are far more people living on the other roads along her routes, and more traffic as well. No one reported seeing her on ANY other road. To me that speaks volumes. Very slim odds that two people saw her on the most rural road on her routes, and not one person saw her on any of the other, busier roads. She very likely never made it off of BSR. Not one person driving down Route 31 which is a very busy road remembered seeing her there.

 

[Kickoff61]

Remember, More than one witness reportedly saw a woman fitting her discription during the time period 1-3pm On BSR. There are far more people living on the other roads along her routes, and more traffic as well. No one reported seeing her on ANY other road. To me that speaks volumes. Very slim odds that two people saw her on the most rural road on her routes, and not one person saw her on any of the other, busier roads. She very likely never made it off of BSR. Not one person driving down Route 31 which is a very busy road remembered seeing her there.

That was leaked before the FBI got on it and they went silent. We do not know the content of the 1,000 tips.

 

[Kickoff61]

There has to be a lot of other information, with approx. 1000 tips.

 

[ForensicMass]

This is why I have difficulty believing a car was initially involved to begin with. If he had taken her in the vehicle, (and especially being from outside of the area), I believe he would have taken her out of town.

I agree. But I do not think he got her into the vehicle. I think he may have tried. Or he got her in there but she immediately escaped. She may have pretended to pass out, then bolted - pure spec here.
I think if a vehicle involved, as the police have made clear they believe is the case, that the INTENT was to remove her from the area. It's just that the plan did not work.