MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #5

[DexterMorgan]

What would you say the motive was?

Maybe 1 was the lookout while the other attempted to assault her. But she fought back.

So the other one got scared and decided that we need to just kill her and get out of here.

Idk.

Btw. They could have been local and not experienced with rape and abductions.

But imo. The meth or drugs made them too paranoid to carry out their rape fantasy. Jmo

So they quickly killed her instead. Jmo

 

[ForensicMass]

There was a ping off the tower next to the Mountain Barn. That may have not been the location of her phone physically.
I was looking at Google Maps, and I noticed a tower that was a lot closer to her on Boylston Ave, and wondered why her phone didn't ping off that tower. I took a ride down that road, and the tower is there, but there is no antena, so after seeing that, it all made sense.
It doesn't make sense to me that this guy would carry her phone around, and be tracked. I know the time of the ping was discussed before, and I could be wrong without going back, but I believe that ping off the Mountain Barn tower was at 2:45? this is my theory of what happened to her phone.
I think he burned it along with her clothing, and the ping happened at that time he either shut it off, or from the failure of the electronics from burning it, and to me the timeline also fits.

Actually there was not necessarily a ping off of that tower - that seems to be information that was developed on this site. All that we know is that her mother told the neighbor that the last known location of her phone was near the mountain barn restaurant. And I believe the time was either 225 or 235, I cannot remember which but I'm certain it is one of those.

If she was using the "find my iphone" application, that location reading is typically accurate to within a couple hundred feet, often it is very close, within 30 feet. No mention of a tower was made except by people speculating on here. I believe her phone was close to the mountain barn restaurant.

We know that the phone was not found at the site it was reported by LE that her phone was missing. if it had been burned on site, LE would have seen remnants of it. Phones aren't all that flammable.

We know that she had the phone, we know that she no longer had it when they came upon her. so an inference can be made that yes the killer did in fact have her phone at some point In time. When he initially attacked her he presumably would have taken it right away so that she couldn't possibly alert anyone to her situation. But if she gave a struggle the phone would have become an afterthought to the killer. He would have dealt with Vanessa, and his DNA footprint before mentally coming back to the phone. Just supposition.

 

[Cem75]

Do you know where the attack took place on the road? I pull it up on Google Maps but its a long road. Thanks

 

[Rocky1]

Do you know where the attack took place on the road? I pull it up on Google Maps but its a long road. Thanks

62 Brook Station Rd.

 

[Emb72]

Only if you believe he used a torch, or other accelerant. If he built a wood fire, all he needed is one match, or a bic lighter. No need to go back after he got supplies.
If he used small, dry, pine branches, and built it slow, there would not be all that much smoke either.

Ya know, regarding the burning..maybe, if it is a local and knows the weather, the woods being so dry, maybe it was a quick set fire, not sticking around to see how it turned out. Maybe the perp figured he could light a few spots and it would take off like wildfire. But he boogied, no time, had to leave. Just a thought..

 

[dub]

What would you say the motive was?

Thrill kill, basically. (Or sexual assault on the same basis, in the event they didn't initially intend to kill her--I'm not sure which it is).

Also part of the reason I think they weren't immediately local is my gut feeling is he/they chose to attack Vanessa a.) because she was in the wrong place at the wrong time, but also b.) specifically because they didn't know her.

I think if under the same circumstances they had passed by a jogger that they recognized as somebody they were acquainted with, they wouldn't have attacked her. I don't know why I think this and could be WAY wrong, but that's where I'm at for the moment.

 

[Rocky1]

Actually there was not necessarily a ping off of that tower - that seems to be information that was developed on this site. All that we know is that her mother told the neighbor that the last known location of her phone was near the mountain barn restaurant. And I believe the time was either 225 or 235, I cannot remember which but I'm certain it is one of those.

If she was using the "find my iphone" application, that location reading is typically accurate to within a couple hundred feet, often it is very close, within 30 feet. No mention of a tower was made except by people speculating on here. I believe her phone was close to the mountain barn restaurant.

We know that the phone was not found at the site it was reported by LE that her phone was missing. if it had been burned on site, LE would have seen remnants of it. Phones aren't all that flammable.

We know that she had the phone, we know that she no longer had it when they came upon her. so an inference can be made that yes the killer did in fact have her phone at some point In time. When he initially attacked her he presumably would have taken it right away so that she couldn't possibly alert anyone to her situation. But if she gave a struggle the phone would have become an afterthought to the killer. He would have dealt with Vanessa, and his DNA footprint before mentally coming back to the phone. Just supposition.

Ok,I missed the part where LE said her phone was missing.

 

[ForensicMass]

Keep in mind that LE took most of that crime scene back to the lab. I am sure there was a lot more there.

If there was more Ash there and you are certainly correct that law-enforcement would have removed it from the scene for sifting and processing and microscopic analysis. In fact I would assume there was more Ash there because if there was any Ash at all they would have attempted to collect it all and determine its nature. so I would have to agree that there was likely more Ash than we see in these photos.

With fire there seems to be a critical moment where when the heat gets substantial enough the fire will self sustain and expand. When I was like 15 me and my buddy were shooting bottle rockets at an angle out of the back of a plastic lawn chair into the woods behind my house. About 15 minutes later we heard my dad in the backyard. He was frantic and trying to extinguish a fire which had started behind the shed. It grew to about 20 feet in diameter all on its own and we were lucky that the length of the garden hose off of the back of the house was enough to reach it and extinguish it or we would have probably burned down the whole neighborhood.

Massachusetts had not seen drought conditions like those during this period in decades if not a century. If any substantial fire had occurred here it would have been very difficult to extinguish without water or an extinguisher. For that reason I still think the fire was small and contained. I am not saying that I believe with certainty that a torch was used but it doesn't seem like sticks and a lighter to me. I wish that it did because I love falling back on the simplest solution. It just doesn't seem like the best way to burn several discrete areas of the body. End it doesn't explain the elevated circular burn marks on the vertical tree.

 

[Rocky1]

Thrill kill, basically. (Or sexual assault on the same basis, in the event they didn't initially intend to kill her--I'm not sure which it is).

Also part of the reason I think they weren't immediately local is my gut feeling is he/they chose to attack Vanessa a.) because she was in the wrong place at the wrong time, but also b.) specifically because they didn't know her.

I think if under the same circumstances they had passed by a jogger that they recognized as somebody they were acquainted with, they wouldn't have attacked her. I don't know why I think this and could be WAY wrong, but that's where I'm at for the moment.

Ok the reason I asked the op what the motive may have been, is, correct me if I am wrong, but being "Meth Heads" I would think robbery, but again being jacked up, I guess it could be anything.

 

[Rocky1]

Ya know, regarding the burning..maybe, if it is a local and knows the weather, the woods being so dry, maybe it was a quick set fire, not sticking around to see how it turned out. Maybe the perp figured he could light a few spots and it would take off like wildfire. But he boogied, no time, had to leave. Just a thought..

I always thought the same thing.Built a fire,put her body on the fire with her sitting up hunched over,(hence why her head, feet,and hands were burned) and took off in a hurry, hoping the entire woods would burn. Another reason I don't think he was on foot.That would have been a slow get away.

 

[Kickoff61]

Clip from Worcester Telegram Article

"She was in desperation and had already called police," Mr. Richards said. "She (her aunt) told me the last ping to her niece's phone was at 2:25 in the Mountain Barn (Restaurant) area. Then she saw a state police car driving down the road and chased it."
Mr. Richards, who is also a runner, said he calculated the time it would take to run from the Mountain Barn back to Ms. Marcotte's mother's house as about an hour.
"Being 4:30, it was eerie that the last ping to her phone was at 2:25 and she left at 1," he said.

 

[ForensicMass]

Ok,I missed the part where LE said her phone was missing.

They said her phone clothing a single shoe and earbuds were also alluded to

 

[ForensicMass]

Clip from Worcester Telegram Article

"She was in desperation and had already called police," Mr. Richards said. "She (her aunt) told me the last ping to her niece's phone was at 2:25 in the Mountain Barn (Restaurant) area. Then she saw a state police car driving down the road and chased it."
Mr. Richards, who is also a runner, said he calculated the time it would take to run from the Mountain Barn back to Ms. Marcotte's mother's house as about an hour.
"Being 4:30, it was eerie that the last ping to her phone was at 2:25 and she left at 1," he said.

That is correct it was 225 and the word Bing is used but it doesn't have anything to do with a specific tower located at the mountain barn. From the sound of this and the way that the aunt runs after the police car it seems to me that perhaps police have not yet even been contacted at this point. Personal cell phone location applications that people have on their phones show the last known location of the phone being tracked. That location is based on GPS and Internet connections. The Ping represents the actual location of the phone itself and not the nearest cell phone tower. I know they are always using towers to triangulate where calls were made but that is different than this. That would take research to find and the cell phone carrier would need to be involved to determine which towers forwarded a location. I believe she was basing her statement about the ping at the mountain barn off of the find my iPhone application or a similar phone locating application for smart phones

 

[Rocky1]

If there was more Ash there and you are certainly correct that law-enforcement would have removed it from the scene for sifting and processing and microscopic analysis. In fact I would assume there was more Ash there because if there was any Ash at all they would have attempted to collect it all and determine its nature. so I would have to agree that there was likely more Ash than we see in these photos.

With fire there seems to be a critical moment where when the heat gets substantial enough the fire will self sustain and expand. When I was like 15 me and my buddy were shooting bottle rockets at an angle out of the back of a plastic lawn chair into the woods behind my house. About 15 minutes later we heard my dad in the backyard. He was frantic and trying to extinguish a fire which had started behind the shed. It grew to about 20 feet in diameter all on its own and we were lucky that the length of the garden hose off of the back of the house was enough to reach it and extinguish it or we would have probably burned down the whole neighborhood.

Massachusetts had not seen drought conditions like those during this period in decades if not a century. If any substantial fire had occurred here it would have been very difficult to extinguish without water or an extinguisher. For that reason I still think the fire was small and contained. I am not saying that I believe with certainty that a torch was used but it doesn't seem like sticks and a lighter to me. I wish that it did because I love falling back on the simplest solution. It just doesn't seem like the best way to burn several discrete areas of the body. End it doesn't explain the elevated circular burn marks on the vertical tree.

Very dry, yes, but, also a lot of green, and dirt areas with no vegetation to block the spread of fire.those 4"logs maybe just didn't get enough exposure from fire to catch. Calm winds too.

 

[ForensicMass]

Very dry, yes, but, also a lot of green, and dirt areas with no vegetation to block the spread of fire.those 4"logs maybe just didn't get enough exposure from fire to catch. Calm winds too.

Any bare areas that you see there are the results of the police removing Detritus and leaf litter from the area. As someone who is always in the woods and in areas like this there would not be much exposed dirt- this was not a well trodden path and there was a heavy canopy of deciduous trees above.

The woods were wholly green and it was a much weather season when I accidentally started a forest fire in my own backyard with a tiny firework. I would venture to bet that the fire department would not have issued you a permit to burn brush in your yard during this time in Princeton due to the extreme likelihood that the fire would spread out of control.

 

[Kickoff61]

If she was attacked quickly into the run as people are speculating. Then 2:25 is a much later time for the phone to be last active.

 

[Inthedetails]

If she was attacked quickly into the run as people are speculating. Then 2:25 is a much later time for the phone to be last active.

Can someone run down the phone timeline, written in non-techy terms?

I'm thinking she was attacked early in the run, but that her phone was not disabled until the end of the attack - perhaps the perp was even reminded of the phone's existance when someone tried to call or text her and the phone made a noise??

Does that make sense?

jmo

 

[ForensicMass]

If she was attacked quickly into the run as people are speculating. Then 2:25 is a much later time for the phone to be last active.

Very interesting point. That means the attack would have to have lasted longer in the early attacks scenario. She is reported to have left her house at either 1 o'clock or perhaps 115 it does not seem like we know the precise time. If she left on the later end at 1:15 she would have been near the cart path by 125 A full hour before the last transmission of her phone. What is also important here is that if we consider the phone being powered off to represent the ladder or end part of the attack that gave the killer 30 minutes or possibly slightly more of getaway time.

 

[Kickoff61]

Wasn't there a report of a witness seeing her walking and talking animated on the phone somewhere?

 

[Kickoff61]

Clip from CNN

MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, employees at this restaurant, Mountain Barn restaurant, have said that Vanessa`s family came

there looking to see if possibly she was there because her cell phone had pinged off of the tower that`s literally right across the street.

GRACE: OK. So Ben Levitan, her cell phone pings -- Ben Levitan, telecommunications expert joining me tonight out of Raleigh. Her cell

phone pings off the Mountain Barn restaurant.