MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #5

[Rocky1]

As we talked earlier, I never see any casual bike riders. Only the pro looking type with spandex and gear. And I never see one of them with a backpack, which I think this guy had if he didn't have a vehicle. Given all the stuff VANESSA was missing and the possibility of equipment to commit the crime.

One thing I like about the bike or foot theory is the willingness to assume that she was not transported back there from somewhere else. If we accept that in this case, I wish we could also accept it in the case of a vehicle. I do not believe she was relocated beyond perhaps the immediate side of BSR.

If you did see a bike rider wearing spandex, and a backpack, would that throw a red flag?

 

[Rocky1]

That is good information and could be helpful, The mountain barn restaurant is not the same as the mountain side market store where she was believed to have been. mountainside market is on Hubbardston road


Everything is called Mountain this and mountain that over there, it does get a little bit confusing

To keep from confusing it even more,She was believed to be at both.
The Mountain Side Market, at around noon, and the Mountain Barn Restaurant, when her cell phone pinged from there later.
The Mountain Barn was the first place the family looked for her.

 

[ForensicMass]

If you did see a bike rider wearing spandex, and a backpack, would that throw a red flag?

Red flag that I was dealing with a murderer certainly not! But I would notice it as unusual. But that might be because I have friends who are big into cycling that I run with. They are all about aerodynamics. These guys measure the weight of their bikes by the ounce. They pay 400$ for a carbon seatpost because it's 2 ounces lighter than aluminum. You just never see them carrying cargo.

Also, I asked one of my serious cycling friends whether it would be harder or easier to attack someone if he were wearing his cycling gear. He said if he were wearing the clip in shoes that most serious cyclists wear, it would affect his balance severely to the point where you could push him slightly and he would fall over. He said you could wear normal shoes but many of the bikes have a pedal set up which would make a normal shoes on comfortable to ride with. He also said that if the person was wearing normal shoes and riding with normal peddals (no Clips) that it would certainly be POSSIBLE to attack someone, but wouldn't be PREFERABLE to street clothes. Not to get graphic but he said that the spandex would complicate and attempted sexual assault. And that the shorts normally worn by bikers would be highly restrictive and difficult to remove when compared with normal clothing.

 

[ForensicMass]

To keep from confusing it even more,She was believed to be at both.
The Mountain Side Market, at around noon, and the Mountain Barn Restaurant, when her cell phone pinged from there later.
The Mountain Barn was the first place the family looked for her.

Yes. I know, couldn't thy be a little more creative with the names. Lol

 

[ForensicMass]

Also, when discussing serious cyclists on a psychological note, by and large they are a population of fairly well to do (expensive hobby), ambitious, driven and health conscious people that care a lot about their health and life. They embody a lot of characteristics that I would not typically associate with someone who might do what they did to Vanessa. Does that make sense?

 

[ForensicMass]

I think it would have to be a casual biker, and I like that less. Because as I stated earlier there just aren't that many kids or people casually riding bicycles down country roads anymore. Too many computers and other distractions. And on this particular day it was pretty hot for a casual bike ride. And at this particular time it was the hottest time of this particular day.

 

[Rocky1]

Red flag that I was dealing with a murderer certainly not! But I would notice it as unusual. But that might be because I have friends who are big into cycling that I run with. They are all about aerodynamics. These guys measure the weight of their bikes by the ounce. They pay 400$ for a carbon seatpost because it's 2 ounces lighter than aluminum. You just never see them carrying cargo.

Also, I asked one of my serious cycling friends whether it would be harder or easier to attack someone if he were wearing his cycling gear. He said if he were wearing the clip in shoes that most serious cyclists wear, it would affect his balance severely to the point where you could push him slightly and he would fall over. He said you could wear normal shoes but many of the bikes have a pedal set up which would make a normal shoes on comfortable to ride with. He also said that if the person was wearing normal shoes and riding with normal peddals (no Clips) that it would certainly be POSSIBLE to attack someone, but wouldn't be PREFERABLE to street clothes. Not to get graphic but he said that the spandex would complicate and attempted sexual assault. And that the shorts normally worn by bikers would be highly restrictive and difficult to remove when compared with normal clothing.

That all makes sense.
I guess living within that 20 mile radius, on a rural road, and seeing so many bikes, I never pay much attention, I see groups of 25 or 30 on occasion, but tons of solo riders, or a group of two. Most as you say are dressed in Spandex etc, but if one was wearing shorts and a shirt, it would all be the same to me. but then again, I am not around bike riders enough to know the latest in clothing and gear.
Someone walking with a back pack, no doubt I'd have my eye on them.

 

[Rocky1]

I think it would have to be a casual biker, and I like that less. Because as I stated earlier there just aren't that many kids or people casually riding bicycles down country roads anymore. Too many computers and other distractions. And on this particular day it was pretty hot for a casual bike ride. And at this particular time it was the hottest time of this particular day.

True, but I don't think on that particular day, this was a "casual" bike ride, if in fact he was on a bike.

 

[Rocky1]

Also, when discussing serious cyclists on a psychological note, by and large they are a population of fairly well to do (expensive hobby), ambitious, driven and health conscious people that care a lot about their health and life. They embody a lot of characteristics that I would not typically associate with someone who might do what they did to Vanessa. Does that make sense?

Lots of Doctors kill

 

[ForensicMass]

Let's weigh the pros and cons of each of the Perps possible Modes of transport - We have Foot, Bike, Car. We can add to the list if anyone thinks it's worthwhile.

Perp on Foot pros:

Lives very close by, likely knows area like bAck of hand. Can make quick escape to home. Has access to tools needed. Does not need to expose himself on the roadway, can travel through woods. Doesn't have to worry about HER DNA on his things (car etc). He knows neighbors and knows when no one would be at neighboring houses.

Cons:
Would likely be investigated purely based on his proximity to the crime- DNA drag net etc, has to be strong to carry out the crime, a fire could have threatened his own home, dogs may be able to track his scent, he didn't prepare the area to hide her body (this annoys me into thinking he didn't plan for long period- if all other aspects were planned it's weird that he wouldn't want to give himself more time to avoid suspicion by making her more difficult to find. He could have dug a deep hole if he could walk to this place from home, for example, MAJOR con, if he lived right there his scratches would be difficult to hide/ignore.

What else?

 

[Cem75]

Its a shame the store doesn't have a camera. As the article mentions, its a peaceful bucolic town, so its not like they ever had a need for one.

 

[ForensicMass]

Lots of Doctors kill

They kill their wives. Plus lots of doctors are exposed to gore all day, and they have to become emotionally detached from their patients. Recipe for bad news. But I do see your point. Some ambitious smart people are still bad. But they represent a smaller fraction of killers, overall.

 

[ForensicMass]

Its a shame the store doesn't have a camera. As the article mentions, its a peaceful bucolic town, so its not like they ever had a need for one.

This has been bugging me. WHY couldn't someone have a camera.

 

[Rocky1]

Let's weigh the pros and cons of each of the Perps possible Modes of transport - We have Foot, Bike, Car. We can add to the list if anyone thinks it's worthwhile.

Perp on Foot pros:

Lives very close by, likely knows area like bAck of hand. Can make quick escape to home. Has access to tools needed. Does not need to expose himself on the roadway, can travel through woods. Doesn't have to worry about HER DNA on his things (car etc). He knows neighbors and knows when no one would be at neighboring houses.

Cons:
Would likely be investigated purely based on his proximity to the crime- DNA drag net etc, has to be strong to carry out the crime, a fire could have threatened his own home, dogs may be able to track his scent, he didn't prepare the area to hide her body (this annoys me into thinking he didn't plan for long period- if all other aspects were planned it's weird that he wouldn't want to give himself more time to avoid suspicion by making her more difficult to find. He could have dug a deep hole if he could walk to this place from home, for example, MAJOR con, if he lived right there his scratches would be difficult to hide/ignore.

What else?

Pro. Would have been able to watch her like a hawk.
Con.Would have been the very first to be questioned. That would have happened so fast, I'd be willing to bet him first even before family.
We know this after the fact, but burying the body would have made no difference, she would have still been found.

 

[Rocky1]

They kill their wives. Plus lots of doctors are exposed to gore all day, and they have to become emotionally detached from their patients. Recipe for bad news. But I do see your point. Some ambitious smart people are still bad. But they represent a smaller fraction of killers, overall.

Serial killers represent a smaller fraction of killers too.

 

[ForensicMass]

Pro. Would have been able to watch her like a hawk.
Con.Would have been the very first to be questioned. That would have happened so fast, I'd be willing to bet him first even before family.
We know this after the fact, but burying the body would have made no difference, she would have still been found.

True all of that. But if the initial search failed to find her, he could have bought days or weeks. She was only a missing person until they found her. I do think that being so close to home, and the search commencing so quickly, there's a good chance the dogs would find her quickly either way. But if you have the time. Why not at least TRY to hide her?

 

[ForensicMass]

Serial killers represent a smaller fraction of killers too.

I don't think we have a serial killer here. It's unproven. And all that stuff way back when about this case and the NY case being linked never resonated with me. I don't want to waste our efforts even looking there. The answers are in Princeton, or Rutland, or maybe Worcester. No further.

As a Massachusetts resident, I'm almost sure he is among us.

 

[Rocky1]

True all of that. But if the initial search failed to find her, he could have bought days or weeks. She was only a missing person until they found her. I do think that being so close to home, and the search commencing so quickly, there's a good chance the dogs would find her quickly either way. But if you have the time. Why not at least TRY to hide her?

Snipped) Why not at least TRY to hide her?
Because he didn't have a vehicle to transport her body, and that was his comfort zone, meaning he knew that area well.
He didn't have much time, because I think he tried to set the woods on fire, and wanted to get out of there fast, thinking that the huge fire would destroy all of the evidence.
That's also why I don't think he lived in a home that bordered the crime scene, because he didn't care if the woods caught fire.

 

[Kickoff61]

Snipped) Why not at least TRY to hide her?
Because he didn't have a vehicle to transport her body, and that was his comfort zone, meaning he knew that area well.
He didn't have much time, because I think he tried to set the woods on fire, and wanted to get out of there fast, thinking that the huge fire would destroy all of the evidence.
That's also why I don't think he lived in a home that bordered the crime scene, because he didn't care if the woods caught fire.

Good points. He could have wanted the fire to destroy it all and that was the plan. Something may have made him have to leave fast (someone coming along) , especially if a shoe was dropped and left behind. So , he may have not got it to the point he wanted. And lived close enough to get home, but not close enough for his own home to burn.

 

[Rocky1]

Its a shame the store doesn't have a camera. As the article mentions, its a peaceful bucolic town, so its not like they ever had a need for one.

I just checked google maps to see if there are cams on the outside of the Mountainside Market, and there are not. maybe there are now, the image was from 2011.
I have never been inside. Maybe there is a cam inside? Most stores have at least one, and if they did, LE may have very well looked at the footage. Still tough at that point to pick out a perp, but I guess that would be/have been a start.
I looked one night for cams on Google maps, and the only one I could find was the bank on Rt. 31 at the atm facing the road.