MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #6

[ThinkHard]

It seems clear, if it is his dark SUV, whether he used the vehicle part of the time or parked the entire time, he wanted to leave her there and not take her in that vehicle elsewhere.

Could be. Or could it be he picked her up in that car not intending to kill her, but something happened and when it did he took her back to the spot he picked her up from making it look random?

 

[ThinkHard]

I agree. Once your trash is placed at the end of your driveway on town property, it no longer belongs to you.If I was LE canvasing that neighborhood after the crime happened, and an abutting neighbor refused to provide DNA, rather than concentrate on driving all over Princeton doing a DNA dragnet, I'd concentrate on that person. If LE collects a cup, and it's only a man and his wife living there, and the DNA says it was a man, I think that would narrow it down enough to obtain a warrant to collect another DNA sample.

I don't think that would hold up on court at all. How would you prove a guest to his house didn't belong to that DNA?

 

[ThinkHard]

We know in hindsight that her body would have been found anyway, even if she was buried, and he may have too.
Setting that aside, the Hillside Stranglers left their victims where they could be found easily, and they planned in advance on killing them.
I know it was discussed before that if he wanted his victim found, he would have left her along the roadside, and I agreed, but, maybe if it was dark, he may have done just that but didn't want to be seen dragging her back to the roadside.
The Hillside Stranglers thought they were smart enough not to get caught, and were cocky, taunting LE, and maybe this guy is too.
Just a thought.
My thoughts are that he wanted those woods to go up in fire, destroying all of the DNA, so he didn't care about her being found, and was in a rush to get away.
He may have been smart enough to know that even if she was buried, he could have still left his DNA on her.
Still going with Sexual Sadist that had not only had rape in his plan, but murder too.

how do we know in hindsight her body would have been found anyway?

Respectfully that feels more like an opinion than a fact.

Also given the draught we were in all summer...if he wanted those woods to go up in flames I think he would have at the very least started a fire which would have easily grown large enough for the FD to take notice.

But he didn't. And other then a neighbor smelling smoke, the fire was never very large as is evident by the fact it went out before it was found.

So I do not in any capacity believe his intentions where to cover his tracks with a Forrest fire.

 

[Kickoff61]

Or maybe he only wanted her alive and when she fought him to the death, he left her there. It could be a failed abduction, is what I'm getting at.


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It just seems if it was an outsider trying to abduct her and she fought him off as he tried to get her in the car, he would have just left, considering it a failed attempt. Not leave the car parked there , kill her there, then leave.

If he was from out of the area, not in the system, even if his DNA was found, it would be very difficult to find him in the entire state or country. What appears to be an attempt to remove DNA left behind points more to someone nearby who thought a connection could be made.

 

[Kickoff61]

This is true there is a driveway closer but that house is set very very far back and can barely be seen from the road even with no foliage. The house on the same side but closer is much much closer.

But yes given the location it does and has from the beginning made me wonder if that was just the dump site....and it was chosen along her running route intentionally so that no one would go looking elsewhere.

True. When looking at the map, the driveway of that house on the other side seems close, so I was thinking of the risk with someone coming out of that driveway.

 

[Kickoff61]

I also think he wanted to have it catch fire and likely knew if he sat there digging a hole someone would see him and wanted to get in and out as fast as possible and maybe calculated how. If it was one of those very close houses they could easily walk back to get what they needed especially if they're married and want their wife assuming they're home. Could the car have been parked blocking the site up the carte path? So that the house across and passing cards wouldn't see? There's always if he took her there did it in his car then burned the body out where she was found so that it came off like some crazy person with a thing for fire. If I was the cops and someone refused DNA I would want to go do other houses just so they didn't suspect being onto him and in hopes to test a relatives DNA and er a result that way

Yes, that scenario was brought up before too, someone nearby going home quickly to get what was needed for the fire.

 

[ThinkHard]

True. When looking at the map, the driveway of that house on the other side seems close, so I was thinking of the risk with someone coming out of that driveway.

Yes that's a good point. I hadn't been thinking about it that way, but you are right the driveway opening and the cart path opening are quite close...it would be risky for sure as anyone coming in or out of that driveway would notice that car without a doubt, even if they can't see much back at the house.

 

[ThinkHard]

This is just my opinion but it really seems like the fire wasn't part of the plan and was more of a rushed and ineffective coverup perhaps by someone with minimal crime experience.

It really doesn't feel like someone got in their car that day or woke up that morning and planned to kill her.

The cover up tools just feel more like a scramble then a plan.

 

[Evey]

This is true there is a driveway closer but that house is set very very far back and can barely be seen from the road even with no foliage. The house on the same side but closer is much much closer.

But yes given the location it does and has from the beginning made me wonder if that was just the dump site....and it was chosen along her running route intentionally so that no one would go looking elsewhere.

I have thought that to and feel it would have taken place in a house or building by her route where she could be grabbed with notice

 

[Evey]

I think he planned to kill her but maybe not that say but something happened that he had to or he got his shot. Could she have been visiting said close houses? Also why didn't the one that smelled smoke call cops? I think as far as that day goes it was unplanned. She could have caught him lurking or he coaxed her into his house on the way

 

[Kickoff61]

By looking at the maps , I think the biggest issue is the vehicle parked there for any length of time. With houses close by and a driveway right near the path with neighbors knowing that is not a public hiking path, etc, It would be too easy for someone to question the vehicle being there. The guardrail is an issue too, because, someone (not already parked there) driving up beside her, would have had to time it just right with the end of the guardrail at the path area.

 

[Kickoff61]

I am more inclined to think what was brought up before. If the vehicle is his, it was used for only part of the time quickly. Whether he was close by and used it to come back quickly with items to do the fire and retrieve other things and not be seen with scratches , or whether this is a secondary scene and he used vehicle just to put her there and divert it from other location not far from there on her route. I know many people question why he wouldn't take her more of a distance , but either way, whether he was there the entire time with his vehicle or not, basically, he didn't. He didn't want her in the vehicle for further distance that day.

 

[ThinkHard]

I think he planned to kill her but maybe not that say but something happened that he had to or he got his shot. Could she have been visiting said close houses? Also why didn't the one that smelled smoke call cops? I think as far as that day goes it was unplanned. She could have caught him lurking or he coaxed her into his house on the way

I imagine he just assumed it was someone's fire pit or something and it wasn't an issue to cal police about. But it would be interesting to know what he smelled because human hair and human flesh burning does not smell the same as wood burning....so did he burn wood too to mask the scent?

Also just one thing I have seen come up a few times and I just want to shed a little light on it....speaking of local LE....and people saying they would have run plates of a car on the side of the road.....

I think there is something important that might not be immediately understood about Princeton....the police force is tiny. There are 6 full time cops and 8 part time cops and many of the part timers are part timers in other local towns. Princeton itself has maybe three cruisers...one for the chief plus two regular ones....so at any given time you have 3 cruisers max covering miles and miles of backroads in Princeton. Unless a car was in a spot for a long time as in overnight, the chances of the cops coming up on it and then even bothering to run the plates is a lot slimmer then I think most people realize. This is not a high crime town so generally people aren't assuming a car on the side of the road is up to no good.

 

[ThinkHard]

Hey just throwing this out there...but what if they have reports that VM was seen in a dark SUV around town at some other point, and then they have reports with a vehicle of similar description being seen near the murder sight on the day she was murdered? Maybe that's could explain why they seem so sure it's connected yet we can't wrap out heads around why it would be there long enough to stand out so much in their theory.

 

[Kickoff61]

I imagine he just assumed it wasn't someone's fire pit or something and it wasn't an issue to cal police about. But it would be interesting to know what he smelled because human hair and human flesh burning does not smell the same as wood burning....so did he burn wood too to mask the scent?

Also just one thing I have seen come up a few times and I just want to shed a little light on it....speaking of local LE....and people saying they would have run plates of a car on the side of the road.....

I think there is something important that might not be immediately understood about Princeton....the police force is tiny. There are 6 full time cops and 8 part time cops and many of the part timers are part timers in other local towns. Princeton itself hasn't maybe three cruisers...one for the chief plus two regular ones....so at any given time you have 3 cruisers max covering miles and miles of backroads in Princeton. Unless a car was in a spot for a long time as in overnight, the chances of the cops coming up on it and then even bothering to run the plates is a lot slimmer then I think most people realize. This is not a high crime town so general people aren't assuming a car on the side of the road is up to no good.

That makes sense about the police. It also shows what a local would know more about than an outsider in that way.

As far as the location of the path, it seems more likely one of the people in houses close by as shown, would have noticed most of all.

 

[ThinkHard]

That makes sense about the police. It also shows what a local would know more about than an outsider in that way.

As far as the location of the path, it seems more likely one of the people in houses close by as shown, would have noticed most of all.

Yes it's shocking and hard to believe no one heard anything. Which is part of the reason I wonder if knowing the perp is part of how he either got her in a car, or down that path without noise....one way would be if she went willingly to talk.

And then for no one to hear the struggle....makes me wonder like you if it took place somewhere else...and there for it became easy to bring her down the path without her screaming.

I'd imagine LE must have some clue...trackers can tell if people walking down a path or if just one person did....they can tell if something was dragged or if there was a struggle....I know it rained 2 days later effecting much of ''tis evidence perhaps before "experts" got there...but I'd think there would be extensive photos to reference.

 

[Kickoff61]

Come to think of it, approx. 1,000 tips is a lot for that rural area as described before. It is hard to imagine all of them have to do with BSR road. So, if any of them are credibly related to her somewhere else on her running route, then that would discount the theory that she was attacked and killed at the beginning of her run.

 

[Kickoff61]

Yes it's shocking and hard to believe no one heard anything. Which is part of the reason I wonder if knowing the perp is part of how he either got her in a car, or down that path without noise....one way would be if she went willingly to talk.

And then for no one to hear the struggle....makes me wonder like you if it took place somewhere else...and there for it became easy to bring her down the path without her screaming.

I'd imagine LE must have some clue...trackers can tell if people walking down a path or if just one person did....they can tell if something was dragged or if there was a struggle....I know it rained 2 days later effecting much of ''tis evidence perhaps before "experts" got there...but I'd think there would be extensive photos to reference.

Yes, I am sure they have plenty of information from the examination of the scene.

 

[Kickoff61]

I was in Princeton the day before xmas randomly and ended up driving down BSR which I hadn't really done since before all the foliage fell.

A couple things caught my attenention and I tried to snap some quick photos...but they are only so so because it was from a moving car. I can try to get some better ones this week....i really want to get one at the cart path head where you can see how the end of connors lane and the start of the path are the same place.

Here is Connors lane entrance: as you can see it s blocked. It also runs pretty close to the road and you can see the stone wallabies running parallel to the road for a bit north of it.


The path is a dead end...the property she was found on is the same Guyanese who owns the connors lane property....wealthy with a gorgeous White House. Also I happen to know he was home on that day and did smell burning.

If he did smell burning , it would more than likely not be from harming her in spots as some speculated, but actually a fire set after she passed, to destroy evidence.

 

[jbbb]

I think it was someone close by, who does not have to volunteer dna, so is safe, add long as they stay clean with the law. This, to me, points to a long , tedious path to conviction. Not one they would jeopardize by making any mistakes, in gathering evidence that are not iron clad.