MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #6

[Kickoff61]

It could have been a planned homicide from the start, even with plans to leave no DNA. I mentioned earlier on, I think the turning point was her level of fighting and possibly leaving wounds which then led him to take it further with the fire, due to DNA.

 

[Kickoff61]

With how tricky this all is to figure out and the length of the investigation without an arrest yet, it does appear to me to be someone experienced who has not been caught earlier on.

 

[Kickoff61]

The attack and all that happened being in broad daylight during the afternoon as well, points to someone with a history who was confident enough to do it at such a time.

 

[Kickoff61]

Someone confident and comfortable with that immediate area as well.

 

[ForensicMass]

With how tricky this all is to figure out and the length of the investigation without an arrest yet, it does appear to me to be someone experienced who has not been caught earlier on.

Someone experienced OR someone more random. Random killer is harder to find than an experienced one known to the victim.

Experienced random killer is the worst case scenario, and I think there are Too many poorly planned aspects for that to be the case here.

 

[Kickoff61]

I agree with Rocky1. I don't think the person would allow the phone to stay in service , keeping it on hand being able to be tracked. I do believe pings can be followed after the fact also (as in other cases), with LE finding the locations. It is only my opinion, the phone would have been disabled as quickly as possible and before the fire.

 

[Kickoff61]

Someone experienced OR someone more random. Random killer is harder to find than an experienced one known to the victim.

Experienced random killer is the worst case scenario, and I think there are Too many poorly planned aspects for that to be the case here.

I don't see it poorly planned. In fact we are months into this and there is no arrest. I think what looks poorly planned is things going wrong for him if he ended up with wounds and spontaneous cover up.

 

[Kickoff61]

This appears to be someone very calculating and achieved a horrific murder (and cover up!) in broad daylight on a summer afternoon without being caught in the act.

 

[ForensicMass]

This appears to be someone very calculating and achieved a horrific murder (and cover up!) in broad daylight on a summer afternoon without being caught in the act.

I think luckier than smart personally. Don't discount luck, it does exist. My brother crashed his car going 120 mph. He hit a parked motor home and then t-boned a parked Ford F-250. Car was not recognizable. But he climbed out the window literally without a single scratch. My point being he wasn't unharmed because he was a great driver. He was lucky. Odd things do happen.

Let's not elevate this guy's status by assuming he's highly intelligent. The facts and the way this was attempted show otherwise to me. Yes things went wrong. But that's because his plan was poorly developed and left All kinds of room for scenarios that would not be within his control. Also, if he "didn't expect a fight" then I'm going to say he never tried abducting someone before. Many people wouldn't be complicit in this scenario. As we have heard from many females on here, none would readily and ably get into a vehicle. Everyone knows what that would mean. Statistically it would be giving up on your life. People in this scenario are falling back on instinct.

 

[Kickoff61]

I did not mean he didn't expect a fight, but I don't believe he expected her probable high level self defense skills. I do not think he expected to get those wounds if he had them, no.

I highly disagree. But, we will see when he is arrested.

 

[Kickoff61]

I don't know where everyone gets the idea of inexperienced, young, punkish, etc. Maybe they can explain?

By the way, younger rebels into other minor things stand out more as well.

I do believe this is someone people would lastly expect.

 

[ForensicMass]

I did not mean he didn't expect a fight, but I don't believe he expected her probable high level self defense skills. I do not think he expected to get those wounds if he had them, no.

I highly disagree. But, we will see when he is arrested.

Statistically it is very very rare in this kind of attack for the perp to sustain no scratches or injuries. Watch a few episodes of forensic files- these guys have a gash or a bruise or cuts more often than not

 

[Kickoff61]

I am on the outside of what most people believe here but I do believe we will have the truth one day.

I don't believe it was a secret relationship. (although many other ways he could know of her)
I don't believe Some young punk.
or Someone from far away.
or Vehicle parked there the entire time at the path.
or Keeping phone carrying it along to the Barn Restaurant (unless he purposely wanted to ping it there to throw things off).
Etc. Etc.

I do believe this is a very sick brazen individual who needs to be caught.

 

[Kickoff61]

I know that we will continue to disagree and that is fine. The truth will be known when he is caught and hopefully they have much headway for that to be soon.

 

[ForensicMass]

I don't know where everyone gets the idea of inexperienced, young, punkish, etc. Maybe they can explain?

By the way, younger rebels into other minor things stand out more as well.

I do believe this is someone people would lastly expect.

I don't think this was a kid. I see a 25-35 yo male. Possibly no known criminal history. Strong. AVERAGE intelligence. Not that experienced in this type of crime. NOT strongly or perhaps NOT obviously connected to VM

For me it boils down to a simple observation we all seem to agree upon:

This just isn't a smart place to commit this type of crime. Odds are very good you will be seen, heard, identified if you spend any kind of time there. In this case no ID was made. But again, to me this is purely luck and not much else. Im sorry, but This guy is just not that bright. He's bold, yes. Brilliant, No.

 

[Kickoff61]

How do you come up with all that?

 

[ForensicMass]

I am on the outside of what most people believe here but I do believe we will have the truth one day.

I don't believe it was a secret relationship. (although many other ways he could know of her)
I don't believe Some young punk.
or Someone from far away.
or Vehicle parked there the entire time at the path.
or Keeping phone carrying it along to the Barn Restaurant (unless he purposely wanted to ping it there to throw things off).
Etc. Etc.

I do believe this is a very sick brazen individual who needs to be caught.

With you on the first few. No relationship, not a kid, and it was someone from within 50 miles tops. But probably 10 miles or less.

 

[ForensicMass]

How do you come up with all that?

As I said- for me, the crime scene says it all.
Specifically where it was. The fact that it was not THAT isolated. The fact that a vehicle was left in an observable position for ANY length of time. The fact that more wasn't done to conceal the body. The pathetic and failed attempt to remove DNA. The physicality of the crime requiring someone to drag her 130 feet or be big enough to initmidate her into going there.

 

[Rocky1]

You don't see any possibility that in the struggle of trying to abduct someone and then actually fighting them to the death, the the cell phone could be temporarily put on the back burner or forgotten in the chaos? If for only a few minutes, when he got himself out of there and then realized he had the phone still? To me this seems very possible. How clear is your mind when you are attacking someone and then scared to death that you'll get caught? You need to cover your DNA tracks and get the heck out of there. Once you clear the scene, you remember. s***, I still have her phone on me. This really seems unreasonable to you?

The backtracking is another issue, certainly. Of it I can say this- if he wanted to flee south, he was very near to the northern end of BSR, and if he was pulled off "along BSR" at the path, we can I think assume he was positioned in a northerly direction, making the fastest immediate escape in that direction. Additionally, I also personally believe the killer knew where she would be starting from, and perhaps he did not want to pass by the house to be seen by RELEVANT witnesses. Just a thought.

wonder if the bank camera can see the roadway.

And you're right, we need an accuracy test with no wifi

Yes it seem unreasonable to me. You actually make my case. If he has taken the time to "Cover his DNA tracks," and has covering his tracks on his mind, why then would he even think of taking the phone?
You say he "remembers he still has her phone on him." How did he end up with her phone on him in the first place? If we use your scenario of her being in jogging clothes, her phone would be attatched to her wrist right? After he removed her clothing and her phone, those items are on the ground, unless he males a conscious effort to put her phone in his pocket, and why would he want to do that?
I do believe he was pumped up and in a rush to get away, but not knowing,yet, I think it's fair to keep in mind if he is the "serial killer" type, it could have been just the opposite after he killed her, and could have been very calm and relieved.
Another thing to remember. MSM said that her phone pinged "off the tower next to the Mountain Barn." not 100 ft across the road , or in the parking lot etc.
If she was using FindMyPhone, (which we don't know, she could have been using ICloud which I have read in both cases can at times be up to two miles off, depending on Data/wi- fi connection) and it was totally accurate, that would have meant that her phone was right under the tower.
Hard to tell if the cam can see the road. I looked on Google Maps, and it looks close enough where it may have, but not sure.

 

[Kickoff61]

Actually, there are cases of intelligent killers or serial killers who leave a body not completely hidden. Secondly it would be quite stupid to bring a dead body in a vehicle any distance on a hot summer day. There is not proof the vehicle was parked there the entire time. Also not known if vehicle may have been pulled into the path partially, because we do not know what they found at the scene if they found evidence of tire tracks etc. There is just too much unknown with this case. We may know the scene, but there are no reports of evidence from the scene, not even cause of death.