Found Deceased MA - Zachary Marr, 22, Boston, 13 Feb 2016 #1

[frisson]

And what the heck happened in the Bell & Hand that would cause him to leave his party/relatives and want to go to the train and go home to Leominster (if that was what he was even trying to do)? I assume someone interviewed his party/relatives and asked if that was the plan - for him to try and get back home that Friday night? Can't believe a 22 year old partying with cousins or whomever, would be planning to ... not stay the night in South Boston. But maybe that was the plan, and he ... missed his train by nearly 2 hours? That does not sound right. Or it sounds like something happened inside the Bell in Hand to make him want to change his plans and instead of staying out there, or partying in Boston, or overnight in South Boston, he ... headed AWAY. Just strange. There has to be more to explain that.

This is a great point/question. How did they arrive at BiH?(Bell in Hand) Did they all arrive together and did they plan to leave together? Again, his text to the cousin, "LET"S LEAVE" is huge to me. That screams clear intent to me. Someone could argue whether it is true or if the cousin was confused yadda yadda.. That's why I wondered if his messages could be retrieved. Not that I don't believe the cousin, bc I do; but some may not - especially if this gets litigious down in the line with regard to the BiH. And Good Lord, Im not saying that the family wants money. I mean sometimes lawsuits get things, stupid rules, etc changed to prevent this from happening to someone else. Im sorry to keep harping on his not getting back in, but the late hour, (almost closing time?) makes me wonder many things.

 

[Safeguard]

You would be a great one to ask! I just cant help but feeling that for a parent, if it turns out the hole was the deal, for a parent it would be if the hole was not there my child might still be with us.

Which in turn down the road I would thing would result in rage that is what i was referring to when it comes down to trying to figure out who is responsible.

IMO, in any context anyone would "Beleive" that gaping holes in the structure where tons of trains are zooming by daily is acceptable and in context worthy of being dismissed . That is silly IMO.

And yes if that is what happened IMO the RR is totally responsible. Tresspassiing or not, if that is what happened , the hole killed him , not his tresspassing

America is lawsuit crazy !






















+

It's a Draw Bridge. I think the gaps are a structural necessity, in order to raise/ lower it?

 

[frisson]

You would be a great one to ask! I just cant help but feeling that for a parent, if it turns out the hole was the deal, for a parent it would be if the hole was not there my child might still be with us.

Which in turn down the road I would thing would result in rage that is what i was referring to when it comes down to trying to figure out who is responsible.

IMO, in any context anyone would "Beleive" that gaping holes in the structure where tons of trains are zooming by daily is acceptable and in context worthy of being dismissed . That is silly IMO.

And yes if that is what happened IMO the RR is totally responsible. Tresspassiing or not, if that is what happened , the hole killed him , not his tresspassing

America is lawsuit crazy !

America can indeed be lawsuit crazy, but there are legit suits too imo. People do try to make something out of nothing in some cases, but this is far from nothing. (not saying that you think it is nothing. Didn't mean it like that, of course.)

Anyway, he wouldn't likely have been on the tracks at all had he been inside with his family.

I have yet to hear how any of them got home; and Im curious how they got home bc from his messages he planned to be with them.

Those messages are crucial imo. And I do believe the cousin. She may not have remember them verbatim, but she knows the context....what he intended to convey. (imo)

 

[frisson]

What does "He was not seen on video trying to re enter " mean? That he did try, but was not on video?

Sounds like a semantics puzzle.

Was it that he did not try at all? ODD. Which seems super peculiar and unlikely to me unless he was told that he was not permitted back in. Iow, if it were me, I'd think that if Im not /allowed /welcomed (told not to) go back in, I probably wouldn't open the door even if I saw others going in. I'd wait a few minutes for my family to come out. (After a few minutes, then I'd open the door, go in, say that I'm freezing and deal with whatever the fallout is.)

Or did he try and the video was edited? Although tampering with a video of a missing person seems it would bring more problems to the person tampering than it would solve. Hmmmm. Does anyone recall the wording given in his texts? TIA

 

[Safeguard]

I don't know if it's important or not, or at this point, but ... I wonder if it took him between 10-30 minutes to walk from the Public Market to that bridge/track area, and the video shows him entering the water around/by 2:30am? Or, if he went somewhere else first after The Public market, or did something else first, then walked up to the bridge/track area, and entered the water at a much later time - say ... 3:30am, 5am, etc.?

I guess it's possible to lose track of time, and have your judgment impaired by alcohol, or other related things, or the cold. But there are a few missing pieces. Did he get to North Station, discover there were no more trains, and then decided to walk the track somewhere? Like up to the next stop right out of town and have someone pick him up there? Was he maybe calling someone from the Public Market to come pick him up? Still, if you determined the trains weren't running, I just have a hard time believing that you'd walk around or down from the TD Garden and access what was probably a restricted access area to ... ? ... walk the tracks? There must be some small bit of common sense left where you say to yourself, 'Man, wait, why in the world would I go up here. There is nothing up here. Forget it'.

I'm not disputing he did this and entered or fell into the water if that is in fact what the video shows. I'm just saying that I'm having an extremely hard time, even if drunk or cold thinking that you'd ever make the decision that it's a good idea to go up there and walk. It just doesn't make sense. Hence my asking about the timing.

He was heading to North station across that Draw Bridge.

For some us, going places we shouldnt feels like a bit of a dare. Those bridges are so scary looking to me, I would never, ever walk around up there. But some people would never jump a train, I did... unacceptable risk to some, might look do-able to someone else?

 

[nyc000]

He was heading to North station across that Draw Bridge.

For some us, going places we shouldnt feels like a bit of a dare. Those bridges are so scary looking to me, I would never, ever walk around up there. But some people would never jump a train, I did... unacceptable risk to some, might look do-able to someone else?

Looking at google maps, isn't the draw bridge going away from the bar and north station?

The only thing I can figure is maybe he missed the street entrance to north station and ended up on the walkway adjacent to the bridge?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CARIIS]

What does "He was not seen on video trying to re enter " mean? That he did try, but was not on video?

Sounds like a semantics puzzle.

Was it that he did not try at all? ODD. Which seems super peculiar and unlikely to me unless he was told that he was not permitted back in. Iow, if it were me, I'd think that if Im not /allowed /welcomed (told not to) go back in, I probably wouldn't open the door even if I saw others going in. I'd wait a few minutes for my family to come out. (After a few minutes, then I'd open the door, go in, say that I'm freezing and deal with whatever the fallout is.)

Or did he try and the video was edited? Although tampering with a video of a missing person seems it would bring more problems to the person tampering than it would solve. Hmmmm. Does anyone recall the wording given in his texts? TIA

I am totally with you nless he was told that he was not permitted bac
On the way out i thin he was told thats is for ya buddy.

There were several other things in the intial stame ment that gave me pause Statement was Given a bit after 10 Mon (linked earlier)

The notion that thye definativly stated he was not permitted back in , of course that was denied - a patron in minus degrees was not given the opportinty to get a coat in -9 is njust not humane

Some say the bar not oligated to release video, well in this instance if all is well I would do it quickly. NOt doing so gives pause.

It also might I say might , I say might again - have been indicative of over pouring - if a bunch of smashed people on the video were seen stumbling out of their establishemnt . I said might

I thought it was neat that Boston Market at least had the civility to want to give LE some sense of where he was off. ANyone else in that area who had video of him such have done the same just as compassinte humans.

Since we now know distrance traveled the idea that in the Financial district Boston Market and the govt are the only two enties have the cameras watching their storefronts IMO is highly unlikly.

In this day and age not credible to me !!

 

[SeaEclipse]

I don't understand all of the talk of lawsuits here. Absent special circumstances, a RR doesn't have an obligation to make its tracks safe for walking since they aren't meant to be walked on.

I also don't understand all the talk of mysterious conspiracies. This seems totally obvious to me. He texted his cousin that he was stuck outside. The cousin waited a bit to come. He was cold and so the few minutes felt like forever, so he took off. He walked towards the train station, which is perfectly logical. There used to be trains until 2 am; maybe he didn't realize those had stopped, maybe he didn't have any idea of when trains ran or maybe he thought he could wait at the station. He was either en route or made a wrong turn getting there (folks seem to differ on whether the bridge is directly on route) and may have walked on the tracks knowing they would have to lead to the station and having no other way to get directions.

Edited to correct an error.

 

[frisson]

We cant know what he was thinking, imo but we can get an idea of intent from messages sent from his phone... assuming he sent them. And I have no reason to think otherwise. Iow, I don't think there is a time frame for some random stranger to tackle him, commandeer his phone, scroll through it, and know which cousin to text inside. So that idea (mine, for expounding on a point) is absurd. He sent the messages. I cant quote them, but they're here somewhere. I know one was, "let's leave."

Ten minutes (from his texts to their leaving) also explains the family having to settle the bill and probably wait in a line for their checked coats. Or just settling the bill would take that long or more; but then if unchecked, one of them would have likely taken him the coat when he said that he couldn't get back in; so my guess is they were checked. But IDK.

I also wondered what the cousin's responses, if any, were to his texts. "We'll be right out?" no response? A different response? "Wait for us by the door" What was it? I do wonder these things bc some small bits and tips may help prevent tragedies for others.

 

[frisson]

IDK if the BiH video was turned over to LE ; Was it? BC if they wait long enough they can claim that it has been recorded-over. OOops

 

[Safeguard]

I don't understand all of the talk of lawsuits here. Absent special circumstances, a RR doesn't have an obligation to make its tracks safe for walking since they aren't meant to be walked on.

I also don't understand all the talk of mysterious conspiracies. This seems totally obvious to me. He texted his cousin that he was stuck outside. The cousin waited a bit to come. He was cold and so the few minutes felt like forever, so he took off. He walked towards the train station, which is perfectly logical. There used to be trains until 2 am; maybe he didn't realize those had stopped, maybe he didn't have any idea of when trains ran or maybe he thought he could wait at the station. Once he realized he couldn't make a train, he decided to walk the one way he was sure he could get home: along the tracks, since he took the train there in the first place. Without a working phone, he probably had no other way of getting the directions necessary to walk to ~1 hour home. A 1 hour walk to a drunk young man probably doesn't seem like a lot; absent the weather and directional concerns (easily shrugged off by a healthy young man likely not feeling the cold or thinking super clearly), it's not a crazy plan.

Harvard MA is a 10 hour walk. Zach was headed towards north station.

 

[Esse]

What does "He was not seen on video trying to re enter " mean? That he did try, but was not on video?

Sounds like a semantics puzzle.

Was it that he did not try at all? ODD. Which seems super peculiar and unlikely to me unless he was told that he was not permitted back in. Iow, if it were me, I'd think that if Im not /allowed /welcomed (told not to) go back in, I probably wouldn't open the door even if I saw others going in. I'd wait a few minutes for my family to come out. (After a few minutes, then I'd open the door, go in, say that I'm freezing and deal with whatever the fallout is.)

Or did he try and the video was edited? Although tampering with a video of a missing person seems it would bring more problems to the person tampering than it would solve. Hmmmm. Does anyone recall the wording given in his texts? TIA

From my notes:

During a brief text exchange Zachary told her he was “Out front.” At 1:50 a.m. Amanda Marr and the rest of the group made their way outside, but Zachary Marr was nowhere to be found, she said.
---
"He was only alone for 10 minutes. I don't understand it," said Marr's cousin Jessica Fortier-Goss.
---
"He had some drinks but it was definitely nothing out of the ordinary," said Marr's cousin Amanda Marr.
Amanda says they were hanging out at the Bell in Hand and just before 1:30 a.m. Marr stepped outside to smoke a cigarette, not grabbing his coat because it was in the coat check.
---
He sent me a Snapchat saying they're not letting me back in let's leave," said Amanda, "I texted him and said where are you, and he said out front and that was at 1:41 a.m."
---
"The first two times we called him it rang a few times and went to voicemail and then the third time it went straight to voicemail and we never found him," Amanda said.
---
"Then he tried it again and this is within a 4 or 5 minute span, it went right into voicemail," Matt Marr said.
---
“None of us know Boston really,” said Jeremy Wuth, a cousin of Marr. “We’re all out from Leominster. We’re not here all the time. Anything could’ve happened.”
---
“They were having a great time,“ Matt Marr said. “There were some Snapchats, saying we ought to do this again. This is great. They were out on the dance floor, celebrating his birthday in the big city. Why would he ditch his cousins after that?’’
---
“Maybe he got jumped,’’ his father said. “Maybe they took his cellphone.’’

 

[frisson]

I don't understand all of the talk of lawsuits here. Absent special circumstances, a RR doesn't have an obligation to make its tracks safe for walking since they aren't meant to be walked on.

I also don't understand all the talk of mysterious conspiracies. This seems totally obvious to me. He texted his cousin that he was stuck outside. The cousin waited a bit to come. He was cold and so the few minutes felt like forever, so he took off. He walked towards the train station, which is perfectly logical. There used to be trains until 2 am; maybe he didn't realize those had stopped, maybe he didn't have any idea of when trains ran or maybe he thought he could wait at the station. Once he realized he couldn't make a train, he decided to walk the one way he was sure he could get home: along the tracks, since he took the train there in the first place. Without a working phone, he probably had no other way of getting the directions necessary to walk to ~1 hour home. A 1 hour walk to a drunk young man probably doesn't seem like a lot; absent the weather and directional concerns (easily shrugged off by a healthy young man likely not feeling the cold or thinking super clearly), it's not a crazy plan.

I agree.
BBM
The "stuck outside" part started the whole horrific ball rolling, imo. I wish he hadn't walked off; but in his defense, it does not take long to get confused in minus 9 weather at night with no coat. Maybe he thought walking would warm him a bit and he got turned around or confused in a place he was not familiar with. I would totally understand that and it would not take long imo. But still, he wouldn't need to walk off if he had been back in.

 

[frisson]

from my notes:

During a brief text exchange zachary told her he was “out front.” at 1:50 a.m. Amanda marr and the rest of the group made their way outside, but zachary marr was nowhere to be found, she said.
---
"he was only alone for 10 minutes. I don't understand it," said marr's cousin jessica fortier-goss.
---
"he had some drinks but it was definitely nothing out of the ordinary," said marr's cousin amanda marr.
Amanda says they were hanging out at the bell in hand and just before 1:30 a.m. Marr stepped outside to smoke a cigarette, not grabbing his coat because it was in the coat check.
---
he sent me a snapchat saying they're not letting me back in let's leave," said amanda, "i texted him and said where are you, and he said out front and that was at 1:41 a.m."
---
"the first two times we called him it rang a few times and went to voicemail and then the third time it went straight to voicemail and we never found him," amanda said.
---
"then he tried it again and this is within a 4 or 5 minute span, it went right into voicemail," matt marr said.
---
“none of us know boston really,” said jeremy wuth, a cousin of marr. “we’re all out from leominster. We’re not here all the time. Anything could’ve happened.”
---
“they were having a great time,“ matt marr said. “there were some snapchats, saying we ought to do this again. This is great. They were out on the dance floor, celebrating his birthday in the big city. Why would he ditch his cousins after that?’’
---
“maybe he got jumped,’’ his father said. “maybe they took his cellphone.’’

BBM colr by me

Thank you so much for this!

Sorry Im yammering too much. Im waiting for someone at the airport.

The part in red seems odd. I don't know that I've called a phone that is dead. To the caller, would it ring? Would it go to voicemail , from the caller's perspective, I mean? Why would he not answer if he could or was he already in the water?

edit typo. I said, "yank you so much."

 

[SeaEclipse]

Harvard MA is a 10 hour walk. Zach was headed towards north station.

Sorry! Someone upthread said an hour and I didn't check. If he was still en route to North Station, all the more normal. I've edited my post above.

 

[frisson]

Do you guys know how the cousins etc got home? TIA

 

[Safeguard]

Sorry! Someone upthread said an hour and I didn't check. If he was still en route to North Station, all the more normal. I've edited my post above.

There was some confusing Harvard University, (which is about an hour from the Bell), and Harvard MA. where Zach lives.

 

[Dionysia]

If you aren't familiar with North Station and/or are a bit intoxicated or freezing, you can easily miss the entrance to TD Garden and the Commuter Rail at North Station. I bet that's what Zach did and instead went around the back towards the tracks.

 

[frisson]

If you aren't familiar with North Station and/or are a bit intoxicated or freezing, you can easily miss the entrance to TD Garden and the Commuter Rail at North Station. I bet that's what Zach did and instead went around the back towards the tracks.

And not from the area, he wouldn't know there is a drawbridge with gaps. I cannot imagine the horror of that fall... if that's what it was and it appears to be from what I've read here

So the party didn't arrive by car? Does anyone know? I ask bc why not go to the car and wait if he cant find the cousins leaving the exit of BiH? I guess it depends on where it was parked? or if there was a car at all bc IDK.

 

[Dionysia]

I'd bet that they drove from Southie, since there's no T train out that way plus it was so cold.

Which means that the car was probably parked at one of the nearby garages to Faneuil Hall. It's easy to forget which one you've parked at (I've done that and I was sober and I'm local to the area!). I just wish that Zach had picked one of the garages to hang out in, but if wishes were horses...