Found Deceased MA - Zachary Marr, 22, Boston, 13 Feb 2016 #2

[CARIIS]

I have never been inside the Bell, but I agree the sign would be a good idea, if there's not one. I have never seen any bar post a "Closing Policy", but then again, I didn't look for any back in the day either...

I certainly understand his thinking at the time. WHo would imagine 40 minutes before formal "closing " that they wont let one back in in 20 minutes.

If he was at that exit only, again the place is all glass - someone had to see him - if I was in that corner i would havve gone to the window and mouthed go to the other door he has nothing on.and probably looked cold.

In my mind that would the front door peoples to take it from there.

From pictures it does not look like there were a lot of people strolling about - it seems other patrons could have figured out he was a patron stepping out for a cig because it is a no smoking area .

 

[CARIIS]

respectfully snipped

Having been puked on by a drunk guy on the train, I can see where this might present a problem for passengers and crew. (Really hard to throw an unruly black-out drunk off a train).

hi Safe !

Edgar here!

Yuk

 

[CARIIS]

How long will they look for Marr before they stop? Have they decided to stop searching? Did they look for Erik Munsell's body for only a week or so, then just stop and wait for him to surface one day?

Hi Sun

I have wondered that too. And then it was like maybe I dont want to know. But I think Car - said its like 30 feet deep - thats a issue.

Imagine how cold it is 30 feet under.

The way I understand it refloating in and of itself can be slow --so good lord...

 

[CARIIS]

Your son was there at a time that the train was running. That is so lucky and a great blessing that he is safe. It seems that Zach was too late to jump a train. It is so sad.

I would be too scared to move away from the people I was with in a city I did not know!! It had to be scary.

 

[carbuff]

So far people (generically speaking) on this thread have accused the Boston police of incompetence and neglect, by implication said our medical examiners are unqualified, implied or stated that evidence has been covered up by asserting nonexistent parallels with cases in other jurisdictions, and alleged incompetence by everyone from bar employees to railroad employees to the city of Boston. And that's without getting into the speculations about substance abuse and mental state. I admit, some of the speculation was mine and I wish I hadn't done it.

A great deal of that was understandable when we didn't know anything. But now that we've been given more information about what happened and why, it seems to me to be very disrespectful to Zach and his family to continue in this vein. The only thing left is to hope his body will be recovered soon, and that his family will find some peace.

 

[2Hope4]

I'm thinking about his phone. I don't know what kind of phone he had, or if it matters, but I do know mine has stopped working if it gets too cold or too hot. Now if it's -9 degrees, I'm not outside, but mine has stopped at working in 40degree temps before!

Nothing makes sense. Reminds me of Morgan Harrington not being allowed back into the concert arena, and she was murdered. Had she been allowed back in, or even if police had been called to take her to a holding cell, she'd be alive.

Same with Zach. If only he'd been allowed to wait at the door for his family, or police had been called if he was being obnoxious, he could have been held in a cell until he sobered up. Instead, considered dead.

Harrington's family sued the security working that night. Maybe Zach's family will have to do the same.

As for Zach calling the police himself, I don't know many young people that would. My daughter called police for someone else, and she was nervous! That person had a heart attack, and was laying in their yard, she was out walking a known walking loop, and saw him. She wasn't drinking, doing nothing wrong, yet still felt nervous calling 911. Many adults won't even call while witnessing a crime being committed.

I pray his body can be found. So sad.

Have they released the video showing why they think he is in the water? Or are they just going by what usually happens, young man disappears from a bar, found in water?? Are police thinking suicide? Just seems like a huge accident to me!

 

[Steleheart]

I'm thinking about his phone. I don't know what kind of phone he had, or if it matters, but I do know mine has stopped working if it gets too cold or too hot. Now if it's -9 degrees, I'm not outside, but mine has stopped at working in 40degree temps before!

Nothing makes sense. Reminds me of Morgan Harrington not being allowed back into the concert arena, and she was murdered. Had she been allowed back in, or even if police had been called to take her to a holding cell, she'd be alive.

Same with Zach. If only he'd been allowed to wait at the door for his family, or police had been called if he was being obnoxious, he could have been held in a cell until he sobered up. Instead, considered dead.
Harrington's family sued the security working that night. Maybe Zach's family will have to do the same.

As for Zach calling the police himself, I don't know many young people that would. My daughter called police for someone else, and she was nervous! That person had a heart attack, and was laying in their yard, she was out walking a known walking loop, and saw him. She wasn't drinking, doing nothing wrong, yet still felt nervous calling 911. Many adults won't even call while witnessing a crime being committed.

I pray his body can be found. So sad.

Have they released the video showing why they think he is in the water? Or are they just going by what usually happens, young man disappears from a bar, found in water?? Are police thinking suicide? Just seems like a huge accident to me!

BBM:
Was he not allowed to wait at the door?
WAS he obnoxious?
Sobered up? was he drunk? according to whom?
Do you have any MSM or LE links to these assertions?

BTW "links" in TOS does not refer to some vague connection between unrelated cases - it refers to actual URL's referencing sources for applicable information.

:cow:

 

[Steleheart]

So far people (generically speaking) on this thread have accused the Boston police of incompetence and neglect, by implication said our medical examiners are unqualified, implied or stated that evidence has been covered up by asserting nonexistent parallels with cases in other jurisdictions, and alleged incompetence by everyone from bar employees to railroad employees to the city of Boston. And that's without getting into the speculations about substance abuse and mental state. I admit, some of the speculation was mine and I wish I hadn't done it.

A great deal of that was understandable when we didn't know anything. But now that we've been given more information about what happened and why, it seems to me to be very disrespectful to Zach and his family to continue in this vein. The only thing left is to hope his body will be recovered soon, and that his family will find some peace.

But please understand that speculation and theorizing in the context of the evidence supported by available information is known as sleuthing. You've been entirely on track IMO. The other aspects you referred to are on a plane I would equate with creative fiction as in some competition for the best screenplay in the absence of information offered to us lesser spies.
It's shameless sometimes and yes it is entirely disrespectful toward the victim himself and his loved ones. And by the evidence referenced up thread, flies in the face of what his own relatives have said - "100% tragic accident" ( links up thread)

This is why I bowed out, but here I am, LOL because,,, well, good people, yadda yadda,,,


:cow:

 

[CARIIS]

So far people (generically speaking) on this thread have accused the Boston police of incompetence and neglect, by implication said our medical examiners are unqualified, implied or stated that evidence has been covered up by asserting nonexistent parallels with cases in other jurisdictions, and alleged incompetence by everyone from bar employees to railroad employees to the city of Boston. And that's without getting into the speculations about substance abuse and mental state. I admit, some of the speculation was mine and I wish I hadn't done it.

A great deal of that was understandable when we didn't know anything. But now that we've been given more information about what happened and why, it seems to me to be very disrespectful to Zach and his family to continue in this vein. The only thing left is to hope his body will be recovered soon, and that his family will find some peace.

Re:But now that we've been given more information about what happened and why

Weve been given info that he was on video, and seen. And is no longer since.

That did expalin much IMO to me. What more info are you referring to? Did I miss something?

I am clueless regarding why...how....when and where for sure.

 

[chaleigh26]

Carbuff and Steleheart :tyou:

 

[Steleheart]

So I decided not to ask what color was his sky...

A family has lost a son.
His sky is eternal.
And my own empathy
Cannot even begin
To understand.
So I will not try,
But I will pray.

 

[Steleheart]

Hi all. I just got an account here and will disable it soon. I was trying to find information about Zach because I don't watch tv and the online reports are kind of nebulous. I was hoping to get the most current news and somehow stumbled here.

While I understand this is a hobby for a lot of you and you mean no harm, please be cognizant of what you post as you continue your journeys as armchair detectives. I came looking for information about this young man because he is from my town...an incredibly close-knit community. Today people are tying yellow ribbons on all the trees and poles in town. Requests for news, sharing of prayers and updates on how the family is doing is a constant discussion on our town's private message board. To read some of the theories being carelessly tossed around is shocking. This is a close family who is well loved in the community. In addition, before coming to Harvard, I lived for years and years in Boston. To hear the theories involving Boston geography and crime by people who haven't even visited the city is preposterous.

Again, I understand no one means harm. And it's not my job to castigate people when American media invites us to all become detectives. But know these aren't just missing people. They are friends and family. They are members of a community. They are loved and missed. They are not a plot on SVU.

Is it disabled yet? :waiting:

Oh wait I don't think that happens, LOL. In the mean time check out Missing persons discussions ; http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?60-Missing-Persons-Discussion

Or unidentified persons . For every UID there is a missing person - try to match some up : http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?130-The-Unidentified

And yes, while it may be a hobby for some, for others it is entertainment,,,

But still for others... it is a passion.

We have Law enforcement, Lawyers, Forensic professionals, Government reps, disabled people, retirees, scientists,
You name it. I have seen members make a difference, be it reporting Sex Offenders to LE when a kid goes missing to helping Homeland Security find a sexual predator from a vague video. Reporting backgrounds of criminals who may have been local, there are actual real possibilities - LE calls it crowd sourcing.

There's a lot to see so please take your time

But check it out.

:stay:


:cow:

 

[2Hope4]

BBM:
Was he not allowed to wait at the door?
WAS he obnoxious?
Sobered up? was he drunk? according to whom?
Do you have any MSM or LE links to these assertions?

BTW "links" in TOS does not refer to some vague connection between unrelated cases - it refers to actual URL's referencing sources for applicable information.

:cow:

Perhaps you missed the word "IF" in reading my post.

Obviously he wasn't allowed to wait inside, because he said he wasn't! That's not my opinion, wild speculation, etc.

After my posting, I read the article where LE said they have video of his walk that night. Horrific event! Goes without saying his family and friends are in my prayers. Their loss so great. Still grieving the loss of their family member *his grandmother* and now grieving while waiting for the recovery of his body. I can't imagine.

 

[capegirl33]

So, I have been following this case and I have to say it does to make any sense to me. First off, It was actually around 20 degrees when Zach was outside as it was 1:30 am on February 13...http://www.wunderground.com/persona...storyTable#history/s20160213/e20160213/mdaily
Still cold, but no -9 and wind chill at 16 mph. Don't know how many times people have incorrectly stated this.
Media has stated several different stories, the last two are that he was "seen on video walking on railroad tracks then disappeared into the water", the other was "he was seen on video walking into the water". Initially I had read an article stating they had seen him jump a barrier onto the tracks but then he disappeared.
From all accounts Zach was not inebriated, so if he did fall in the water, is there any likelihood he could have made it out? Swam across? Gone off on the foot bridge? Met up with friends he had in Somerville?
And can dogs smell through water? What is that all about? They had the dog on the boat??? I've never seen anything quite like that...Which made me wonder...
Also, could Zach have set up something to get away for some reason? I know 22 year old's, and even if stuck outside a bar, with family inside, they aren't leaving till all their family are with them unless they have an ulterior motive. Especially when not from there, and all having come together. And he was on the phone and then on the move before anyone could get to him. So, thinking... was he in any kind of trouble, he had to disappear?
Did he accidentally take anything from grandma's house and decide to start out somewhere new before his family found out? He obviously had a burner phone, you don't, as a 22 year old, just have one of those either. Generally for illegal things. Or for his disappearance? Maybe he owed to the wrong people?

 

[Steleheart]

Perhaps you missed the word "IF" in reading my post.

Obviously he wasn't allowed to wait inside, because he said he wasn't! That's not my opinion, wild speculation, etc.

After my posting, I read the article where LE said they have video of his walk that night. Horrific event! Goes without saying his family and friends are in my prayers. Their loss so great. Still grieving the loss of their family member *his grandmother* and now grieving while waiting for the recovery of his body. I can't imagine.

No I didn't miss it, I actually bolded your statement including the word 'if' - "If only he'd been allowed to wait at the door for his family" Was he not allowed to wait at the door for his family? Who prevented him? According to whom? What source? Can you link it?
Why would he wait inside if he SAID he was going OUTSIDE to smoke? who smokes inside?

 

[Steleheart]

So, I have been following this case and I have to say it does to make any sense to me. First off, It was actually around 20 degrees when Zach was outside as it was 1:30 am on February 13...http://www.wunderground.com/persona...storyTable#history/s20160213/e20160213/mdaily
Still cold, but no -9 and wind chill at 16 mph. Don't know how many times people have incorrectly stated this.
Media has stated several different stories, the last two are that he was "seen on video walking on railroad tracks then disappeared into the water", the other was "he was seen on video walking into the water". Initially I had read an article stating they had seen him jump a barrier onto the tracks but then he disappeared.
From all accounts Zach was not inebriated, so if he did fall in the water, is there any likelihood he could have made it out? Swam across? Gone off on the foot bridge? Met up with friends he had in Somerville?
And can dogs smell through water? What is that all about? They had the dog on the boat??? I've never seen anything quite like that...Which made me wonder...
Also, could Zach have set up something to get away for some reason? I know 22 year old's, and even if stuck outside a bar, with family inside, they aren't leaving till all their family are with them unless they have an ulterior motive. Especially when not from there, and all having come together. And he was on the phone and then on the move before anyone could get to him. So, thinking... was he in any kind of trouble, he had to disappear?
Did he accidentally take anything from grandma's house and decide to start out somewhere new before his family found out? He obviously had a burner phone, you don't, as a 22 year old, just have one of those either. Generally for illegal things. Or for his disappearance? Maybe he owed to the wrong people?

B B M :
<modsnip> I was outside in it that night at -11 with -30 wind chill.

 

[capegirl33]

B B M :
<modsnip> I was outside in it that night at -11 with -30 wind chill.

He was out Friday into Saturday.... The really cold night was Saturday into Sunday...read the weather history...I didn't make it up!!! It's ON THE GRAPH

 

[2Hope4]

No I didn't miss it, I actually bolded your statement including the word 'if' - "If only he'd been allowed to wait at the door for his family" Was he not allowed to wait at the door for his family? Who prevented him? According to whom? What source? Can you link it?
Why would he wait inside if he SAID he was going OUTSIDE to smoke? who smokes inside?

Confusion while both speaking the English language. My thoughts were if he were allowed to wait inside the door, after he finished smoking, while waiting for his family to collect the coats so he could leave with them. He wasn't allowed reentry for whatever reason. At least according to the last known interaction he had with his cousin.

We're all hurting over someone losing their life. No where near the hurt the family is experiencing. I think that may be causing some defensiveness, and affecting the ability to express how we're feeling, or what I'm trying to say.

Yes there is responsibility in our actions. Likewise in accidents, if we can look at what lead up to the situation, perhaps we can prevent that same accident in someone else. Workplaces even do that to prevent the same accident from happening again. I don't know that we can prevent all accidents, and events that lead up to someone's death. But if we can change so that a life is saved, IMO, it's worth looking into. Even policies within an establishment can be changed according to situations. Maybe in the future, if someone steps out to smoke in freezing weather, an exception can be made to allow the person to wait for their party in the warmth of the establishment.

 

[Sillybilly]

He was out Friday into Saturday.... The really cold night was Saturday into Sunday...read the weather history...I didn't make it up!!! It's ON THE GRAPH

The linked chart you provided shows a Feb 13 (Saturday) high 0f -3.5C (25.7F) and a low of -18.3C (0.93F). Typically the low would be for the early morning hours of Feb 13 with the morning hours dipping towards the coldest temps of the day. I&#8217;d say 0.93F is very cold, not considering any wind chill factor at all.

ETA: Temps for Friday through Sunday (high/low/mean)

Friday Feb 12
Temperature -3.5 °C -13.3 °C -8.2 °C

Saturday Feb 13
Temperature -3.5 °C -18.3 °C -8.6 °C

Sunday Feb 14
Temperature -11.3 °C -22.1 °C -16.1 °C

So yes, it did get much colder by Sunday, but Friday night into Saturday was not a walk in the park by any means.

 

[2Hope4]

I've never questioned wunderground. However, I just looked up my area, as it was pouring rain for two hours and it wasn't suppose to rain until tomorrow evening. Wunderground says it was clear, no precipitation, yet I know it was raining a few hours ago. Downpour raining, not misting. Now I wonder how accurate it truly is. Bizarre.